Timocracy Puns

Timocracy, if you look it up, is first defined as a system of government where property is required to hold office. The second definition, and the one I will be using is a form of government based on honor.

The two definitions both apply equally (or nearly equally with exceptions like Varys) to Westerosi government, and it is not a sound basis for society. I’m sure you all realize this already, the books are pretty clear on the subject, but I think it will good to look at two individuals who I believe will take opposite paths from the same choice but have the same result due to conflicts of honor.

So, the underlying argument makes use of al-Farabi’s discussion of the forms of government and how every form of government except democracy and a government built on providing bare necessities are not able to become ‘virtuous.’ I’ll keep the philosophy to a minimum but I’ll use his concept of the failings of a timocracy to justify my argument. Essentially his argument is that a timocracy can never become virtuous (ie supporting a philosopher king/prophet) because honor is relative. Using honor as a basis of society isn’t finding a higher truth, it is using something entirely man made that doesn’t have a ‘true’ basis.

Anyway, the two cases I want to look at side by side is Robb Stark and the potential Aegon/Arianne story. Now, the Aegon part is currently a theory so let’s just say it’s speculation that we can draw from.

So in the case of Robb, he does the ‘honorable’ thing by marrying Jeyne. In doing so he breaks a pact with the Frey family. Now, he was stuck in a quandary that supports Jamie’s ‘too many oaths.’ Due to the timocratic nature of Westerosi society, a man’s ‘word’ is all. If he is untrustworthy you can’t really make deals. But Robb, although a northerner, also knows that in theory you shouldn’t have one night stands (with high born women, peasants obviously don’t count). So he chooses the immediate honor over the bigger picture, namely that it was more dishonorable to break his word with the Frey’s than to leave Jeyne with a possible Bastard.

It’s not that complicated…right? I’d say wrong, because you also have to take into account power and how it relates to honor. I made the half joke about the peasants not counting, but this is important. Catelyn says it best when she points out that the Westerlings are a minor house. They do not matter, and frankly it would not have sullied Robb’s honor. Of course Robb is thinking of his father when he make

Listening to The History of Philosphy ep 25 I came across Timocracy Which, I guess would need to be the system the nation of hello internet would have...?

one of the major problems with libertarianism is that one class will hold all the power with no authority to challenge them, in the case of todays society the state (despite being full of bourgeoise) can set its foot down and stop corperations for ethical reasons

in a libertarian/ancap society there would only be one authority and it would be the one of the property owners and they would not like to be challenged by the workers so they would utilize their monopoly on power in society to keep the working class in line

Fun fact: Timocracy is a real means of governance. There are two forms: where those who own land rule, or those with honour rule (in previous cultures these were the same thing).

I propose that this Sub be ruled through Timocracy!

What is a Timocracy? Plato's Republic portrays government as a continuum of power progressing from Aristocracy, to Timocracy, to Oligarchy, to Democracy, to Tyranny. I'm basically familiar with all of these, except for Timocracy.

The basic definition is, a form of government in which possession of property is required in order to hold office. a form of government in which rulers are motivated by ambition or love of honor.

On a closer look, Timocracy is very familiar, it resembles the capitalist and consumerism. One reference for Plato's Timocracy is Sparta. Apparently Spinoza said it applies to Capitalism, but I haven't gotten far into that yet.

So I ask, Is requiring assets to work, such as a car, a computer, a smart phone, an internet connection, a college education, is this a form of Timocracy? Is evaluating people based on their level of education or career placement, a timocracy? Is glorifying the armed services and martial law a form of timocracy? Are "internet points" like Reddit up-votes a form of Timocracy?

Or has this term fallen out of use because the other archetypes cover the bases sufficiently? While it resembles aspects of Plutocracy or Oligarchy, It seems like a useful archetype because it appears organize from the bottom up.

Boy what a title.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if Plato means that in order to reach a democratic state, it must first undergo timocratic & oligarchic roots first, or if he means it's most likely to occur that way.

I don't know if the USA is a good example to use since it was born democracy at independence, but it certainly stemmed from an aristocracy, right? How come it skipped Timocracy and Oligarchy?

World 206 Taverly

*also, why is oligarchy better than democracy, is it just because oligarchs have the virtue of moderation?

I have major beef with 3rd gen coins, and their view of governance and democracy, because it really doesn't work to solve the problems it want to solve.

1. Some history. 1st gen coins and 2nd gen coins were setup by individuals who then either abandoned the project with rigid rules as dictated by one person, or have been changing the rules as determined by some foundation. At the end of the day, the verification of transactions is decentralized, sure, but actual power remains in the hands of a few elite at the top. This is essentially the idea of a benevolent monarch / cabal running a government or country - and the downsides are not only obvious, but have a long history of not working in the long term.
2. Democracy (as seen in 3rd gen coins) is also largely a flawed system though. Firstly, it's seriously incompatible with unequal distributions of wealth in a world where the rich can buy media presence and political influence. Second, there are inherent flaws like the tyranny of the majority, the fact that many non-experts end up voting on expert topics (ignorance of the voter), and the fickle nature of human's struggle between long term and short term benefits, along with many many more [democracy isn't a great system, but it might just be the least worst].

...

So what solutions have people found to the problems of democracy since it's invention back in Athens? Well... quite a few, but the most popular today is representative democracy. We elect experts to vote on our behalf who can respond quickly and who are knowledgeable on complex political problems. But still... representative democracy is still full of problems!

If you elect a single ruler like a president or PM, you still suffer from problems like ignorance (no one person can be expert on all subjects), their inability to respond quickly (people can only do one thing at a time), the fact that they are still elected based on media presence and political influence (the wealthy end up in politics), and of course - they can still be elected by a misinformed majority who aren't interested in long-term success (hence the destruction of the climate). Conversely, if you elect a group of actors instead of a single president/PM they suffer from grid lock, party politics, and the ability to remain partially anonymous due to the group size which makes corruption much harder to root out.

But regardless. 3rd gen crypto never claimed to be a democracy. Instead, it's really a kind of timocracy - where on

I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.

Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.

Do your worst!

They were cooked in Greece.

I'm surprised it hasn't decade.

Don't you know a good pun is its own reword?

Two muffins are in an oven, one muffin looks at the other and says "is it just me, or is it hot in here?"

Then the other muffin says "AHH, TALKING MUFFIN!!!"

For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.

I said "hey look, an escaPEA"

No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!

Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂

It really does, I swear!

Because she wanted to see the task manager.

But that’s comparing apples to oranges

Heard they've been doing some shady business.

but then I remembered it was ground this morning.

Edit: Thank you guys for the awards, they're much nicer than the cardboard sleeve I've been using and reassures me that my jokes aren't stale

Edit 2: I have already been made aware that Men In Black 3 has told a version of this joke before. If the joke is not new to you, please enjoy any of the single origin puns in the comments

BamBOO!

They’re on standbi

A play on words.

Fun fact: Timocracy is a real means of governance. There are two forms: where those who own land rule, or those with honour rule (in previous cultures these were the same thing).

I propose that this Sub be ruled through Timocracy!

Edit: Apology for the double post