My understanding is that both states had the goal of uniting the nation under their respective systems, or at least surviving as independent states. But the RVN failed even that most minimal political goal and in the end the DRV gained control of the whole nation. Why did one superpower-backed aspiring nation-state win and the other fail at their national objectives?
The Democratic Republic of Vietnam is at a crossroads, It can go East or West. I intend for it to go East. A new line of Marxist thought must be developed to form the creation of the new Vietnamese identity.
The country, under Ho Chi Minh's leadership will industrialize under public ownership, Agriculture will prosper and modernize, and we will strive towards having strong armed forces.
We will also seek to export the revolution abroad, funding and supporting national liberation movements in other nations, especially in South East Asia and Africa, by arming and sending advisors to help in the revolutionary struggle of other nations.
On the 19th of May, 1941, Hồ Chí Minh established the Việt Nam độc lập đồng minh, commonly abbreviated as Việt Minh, which meant League for the Independence of Vietnam, in Pác Bó, about 3km from the Chinese border in Cao Bằng province. This organization waged war against the French and then the Japanese until the war ended.
On the 16th August 1945, Hồ Chí Minh organized the National Congress in Tân Trào, which would adopt the 10 major policies of the Việt Minh. Three days later, on the 19th of August, the August Revolution began. Within two weeks the Việt Minh controlled most of the rural villages in Central, Northern, and Southern Vietnam, as well as Hanoi. Hồ Chí Minh proclaimed the Provisional Democratic Republic of Vietnam.
The Potsdam Conference in July of 1945 divided French Indochina into two zones with the 16th Parallel being the dividing line. The northern section was to be left to Chiang Kai-shek's army to accept the surrender of the Japanese. General Lu Han of Yunnan, along with the First Front Army, entered into the region on the 20th of August to accept the surrender of the Japanese 38th Army. Rather than paving the way for the French return as the British have done in the south, General Lu Han allowed the Provisional Democratic Republic to take over governmental duties and assume control.
President Hồ Chí Minh declared independence from France on the 2nd of September. The British forces of the South-East Asia Command entered the country in the south on the 13th of September with a contingent of French forces to reassert French colonial control. On the 23rd of September, French forces seized the Police Offices, Post Offices, and Government buildings in Saigon.
The Democratic Republic of Vietnam, Chiang Kai-shek's forces, and France, are in negotiations at present, while the DRV also prepares for an upcoming nationwide General Election and a new constitution.
I am claiming the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. It is my hope to push out European Imperialists from Vietnam and to assist compatriots in Laos and Cambodia, to reduce French and additionally British influence in the region.
On November 9, 1946, the National Assembly of Vietnam released and ratified a new constitution for the nation. The constitution was released with the following statement:
> To the people of a Free Vietnam,
> Today is a joyous day in the history of Vietnam. From the August Revolution until the General Election in January, our nation was met with chaos. Ideologies divided us and strengthened our oppressor. Nationalist, communist, buddhist, catholic. None of these mattered. All that mattered was: People of Vietnam and Outsiders. We have forgotten this for too long. Our divisions are imposed by the imperialist.
> To the Nationalist, you believe in a free and sovereign Vietnam, out from under the yoke of an Imperialist power who delves our mines, reaps from our friends, takes from our rivers and seas. You wish for our nation to belong to our nation, and we hear you.
> To the communist, you wish for the working class peoples to be free from the yoke of the landed and the feudal. You wish for the bounty of the farms, the mines, the rivers, to belong to the worker. You wish for those who are exploited or marginalized to have a voice, protection, and reap from their efforts, and we hear you.
> We say to you both, listen to our words. The Nationalists want Vietnamese bounties to belong to Vietnamese people. the Communists want the bounties of the mines and farms to belong to the workers. We ask you, are those workers not Vietnamese? At its core, you are wanting the same thing.
> The imperialist benefits when we fight. The imperialist benefits each time a round is expended in conflict, a piece of ordnance, or a fighter is killed. Every act of warfare we engage with each other lessens the threat we pose to them.
> To the Buddhist we say we must embrace tolerance, even in the face of our adversaries. As the Buddha said "Just as a snake sheds its skin, we must shed our past over and over again." We must let go of our past conflicts with our neighbors, our fellow Vietnamese people. We must walk forward together in common ground.
> To the Catholics we say we must practice what we preach, all of us, of all ethos and creeds. Trust does not exist between the factions and camps within our nation, but trust must be had for coexistence to possible. We must learn to coexist, for their is no alternative. We ask that you remember 1st Thessalonians, Chapter
... keep reading on reddit ➡
The Democratic Republic of Vietnam has triumphed over the French Imperialists. Now we must reunite the nation and defeat the puppet regime in Saigon. The successes of the Tet offensive must be consolidated, and a successful cease fire will be beneficial for the country.
On this day 74 years ago(19-08-1945), under the leadership of Việt Minh - a patriot revolutionary front led by President Hồ Chí Minh, the "August Revolution" of Vietnamese people against French colonial rules and Japanese illegal occupation had successfully seized the power of Hanoi, opened up a new era of independence in which the Vietnamese people are the owners of their country.
https://preview.redd.it/u3iucwqc2bh31.jpg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c53214d152d8a0cbd4fd41fe3e784525561b1fe
After the independence declaration of August 1945, In September 1945, 20,000 ROC troops comprised of four army corps, led by General Lu Han, as assigned by the Allies, divided into two lines into the North to disarm the Japanese army and stationed them. in Hanoi and most cities and towns from the Vietnam-China border to the 16th parallel. Việt Nam Quốc Dân Đảng (Viet Quoc) , lead by Vũ Hồng Khánh , Nguyễn Tường Tam and Việt Nam Cách mệnh Đồng minh Hội (Viet Cach) , headed by Nguyễn Hải Thần also quickly moved back China with the KMT army to return to Vietnam. On the following months, the Viet Minh secretly met with Viet Cach and Viet Quoc. In these two meetings, Nguyễn Hải Thần representing Viet Cach and Nguyễn Tường Tam representing Viet Quoc asked Ho Chi Minh to agree to merge Viet Minh with Viet Cach and Viet Quoc. Regarding this suggestion, there are many different opinions within Viet Minh. Võ Nguyễn Giáp disagreed that the proposals were not valid and not trustable but Hoàng Minh Giám,other veteran member parties , believe it would reduce opposition strength and create a unites force for Viet Minh. But eventually the deal failed. But Viet Minh agreed to make concessions with Viet Quoc and Viet Cach. Viet Cach leader Nguyễn Hải Thần was appointed to the position of Deputy Chairman of the Government. At the same time, two seats of the Minister of Health and the Ministry of Public Environment, and a deputy seat of the Ministry of Economy were assigned to the members of Viet Quoc and Viet Cach. However, their responsibility within government was kept limited in government. January 1, 1946 , the provinces government was established.
On January 5, 1946, President Ho Chi Minh sent a call to all Vietnamese citizens to participate in upcoming election of the National Assembly. After the election, according to the agreement with the Viet Minh, the opposition consisted of a number of organizations such as the Viet Quoc and Viet Cach , supported by the KMT, not participating in the General Election but still holds 70 seats in the National Assembly and many positions in the central government due to the government's policy of harmonizing. The result of election:
Viet Minh (120-36%)
Democratic Party (46-14%)
Socialist Party (24-7%)
Nonpartisan (143-43%)
Delegates "accept" (70-17%), of which:
Viet Cach (20-29%)
Viet Quoc (50-71%)
At the first meeting, National Assembly decided to set up a government, electing Ho Chi Minh as Presiden
... keep reading on reddit ➡I was reading the History textbook(Vietnamese High School book) and they wrote that Ho Chi Minh and the party had to make some take some steps back and gave away some seats in the National Assembly for the so called opposition-reactionary parties like the VKMT or the Revolutionary Party of Vietnam, both are relatively called Viet Quoc(they actually call it the Vietnamese KMT in the 1930s timeline, imo because the VKMT led by Nguyen Thai Hoc was the only real VKMT according to the book) and Viet Cach. In fact, the vice president of the DRV was the leader of Viet Cach, these moves were made to "protect the newly independent countries from internal reactionaries and colonial invaders". What I want to ask is: was the vision of Uncle Ho for a Republic of Vietnam a democratic, multi-party republic? Did his ideals never happen because of the US' intervention in Vietnam?
The Viet Minh in 1946 is in an interesting situation. The French controls most of Cochinchina and is under the process of receiving the Japanese surrender and disarming them. In the north, the Chinese Nationalist Army is occupying the region. The Viet Minh during this time are under negotiations with both the French and the Chinese, and as the Viet Minh I hope to prevent the conflict from spiraling out of control and turning into a Cold War battlefield, instead keeping it as an anti-colonial struggle utilizing American support for Vietnamese independence against the French.
January 30, 1962
From the Desk of President Ho Chi Minh
While we greatly appreciate the aid the Soviet Union has provided us, we are in great need of more advanced conventional weapons. Specifically, we would like to ask to be allowed to send pilots to be trained to pilot MiG-19 jets as you begin to roll out the MiG-21 to replace such aircraft. These pilots would stay and train in the Soviet Union for approximately two years before returning to Vietnam, and upon their return we would arrange the purchase of forty-eight MiG-19P fighters with Vympel K-13 capability. These would provide us the ability to secure our skies over our home territories while also projecting our air power over the Southern government should the war not be won by then.
As you begin to roll out the Zu-23-2 we would also like to begin to purchase part of your stock of S-60 57mm anti-air autocannons. A total of 6 battalions of 20 guns each would be purchased, as well as accompanying fire-control radar and fire direction systems.
My plans are basically to fight the good fight and install communism across SE Asia, or at least try. I've played for a good 4 seasons on GlobalPowers as well as several XPowers before and during that time, so I'm well versed in this style of game. Lets hurt some people.
With the retreat of the French imperialists from Indochina, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam has become the sole legitimate government of the region. The liberation of the nation of Vietnam is a great stride for the global liberation of all oppressed peoples, and of course the Central People's Government of the People's Republic of China is happy to extend a hand of friendship to the Vietnamese people.
Long Live the Brotherhood of our People!
Pro-Democracy leader, Thuy Manh Canh, said at a radio broadcast
> "We thank Indonesia, and other countries in the region for helping us in the conflict, and in the attempt to take back our land from the Indochinese tyrants. It's still a long, long battle before we can recover the entire homeland."
He also declared he will be the PM of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Laos.
> "Today I announce that I am the Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Laos (DRVL). And we are the only legitimate government of the entire Vietnam and Laos. We will now focus on the conflict, but once it is over, I will write the constitution, call for democratic elections and referendums."
Meanwhile, the Indochinese PM, Nguyen Phu Minh has denounced the UN vote and the DRVL.
> UN and their dogs, ASEAN, have been trying to get rid of our government just because we don't adhere to what the west are trying to do. The 'DRVL' is imaginary to your own minds... they don't even have a proper government. Imagine someone in Indonesia wakes up one day and declares his neighborhood as the legit government of entire Indonesia and the UN votes in favour of that guy. What kind of bullcr*p is that? Well... Maybe it's expected? UN is a joke anyway.
How would this have affected world politics between the 50s/60s and now?
Due to violations of Rules 3 and 7 of the CWP Code of Ethics quoted below:
> #3 Realism is upheld ruthlessly here. Unrealistic wars, expansions, and events will be retconned immediately and the player will be given a firm warning. Another one, and the player will be immediately relieved of their country.
> #7 This is a role playing sub first and foremost, low effort or low quality posts may be removed at any time by the moderators. Spamming will not be tolerated.
/u/AllahuChrist's claim on North Vietnam is now invalid. Any unrealistic posts or 'shitposts' made by AllahuChrist will be deleted, however 'shitposts' that are starting important world events (like the Vietnam War) will not be removed. This post is to inform players that North Vietnam is now open for claiming.
EDIT: /u/AllahuChrist will still be able to make a claim on a less relevant country, but you will be banned if you continue this behaviour.
Comrade Nguyen Giap and our nations father and advocate Ho Chi Min will lead the Vietnamese people to victory over the French, desperate to cling to a dying empire.
[M] I believe the North Vietnam player is inactive (18 days), so I want to claim the DRV.
Sorry East Germany, I can't pass this up!
I'm in charge of running a historical simulation of the Vietnam War (crisis cabinet) for a Model United Nations conference.
Simply put, I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a list of key personnel in both governments, such as the Politburo in the DRV or even the names of ministers in South Vietnam. Historiography in English largely favors American involvement, and what little I can find points me mostly to only the top figures in the government like Le Duan or Ky and Thieu.
As such, it'd be tremendously appreciated if anyone can point me to resources, or any text, really, that give the names and positions of such ministers in both North and South Vietnam- preferably during the 1960s.
In addition, anything interesting about South Vietnam? It seems like an even more neglected field of study, even as more research seems to explore them as more than a simple client state. I'm reading Andrew Wiest's Vietnam's Forgotten Army, but any books/journal articles would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks so much!
We will produce as much as possible. Don't stop! Go go go! Make work make work make work make work make work work work make and mend! Bring a new age of prosperity! Work make mend and work and work some more! Go forth workers! Work and make for the DPRA! Dong Nguyen won't stop, why should you!
It is absolutely necessary that within a modern state there is a politically conscious working class to carry forward the advancement of the nation. Sadly, Vietnam is lacking in this regard, it is unlikely that within the whole country there are more than 150,000 industrial workers. Industrialisation within our nation is an utmost priority, as such the government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam has announced the first Five Year Plan to run from 1949 to 1953.
Vietnam has plenty of manpower, its people are skilled and industrious and as a whole possesses significant industrial potential which can be used to create large scale industry. The first Five Year Plan is to focus on the expansion of heavy industry, Vietnam's significant natural resources will be exploited.
A steel plant at Thai-Nguyen is to be built in the first 12 months of the plan. Within two years of completion it is expected to produce 400,000 tons of Steel per year. A second plant is to be built in the third year of the plan at Yen Bay, this is to aim to produce 150,000 tons in the final year of the first plan.
The hydroelectric plant at Lam Dong is to be expanded in capacity, by the end of the plan is to have more than doubled in the quantity of electricity produced. A second plant is to be constructed at Ninh Thuan. The South, lacking as it does in mineral reserves, is to be primarily used for agricultural and electrical purposes.
Known Coal and anthracite reserves total some 20 billion tons, 12 billion of these are within the Quang Yen Basin. Mines are to be constructed in this area due to its prime position, coal produced can be immediately sent for export or sent by barge to the steel plant at Thai-Nguyen. On their return trip barges are to take steel to the machine tool plant at Hanoi and Cement mill in Haiphong, both to be constructed within the first year of the plan.
The agricultural sector will benefit from this industrialisation, a phosphate plant is to be constructed in Lam Thao which should produce 100,000 tons a year initially and ultimately 500,000 tons per year five years after completion. This fertiliser will be used for increasing the output of our nations farms.
Infrastructure across the coutnry is also to be improved, initial actions focusing on repairing the damage done during the War with the French and improving river borne communications between industrial centres.
Over the course of the next five years some $335,000,000 is to be spent funding this plan.
... keep reading on reddit ➡
