Leasehold Puns

An Englishman’s home is his castle... for up to 999 years.

Hello all,

I'm a FTB who successfully put an offer down on a flat two months ago. It is an 8 year old property with 147 years left on the lease. Everything was going fine until my solicitor mentioned that the ground rent (£250) doubles every 15 years.

This was not something I had been made aware about until this moment, I did some digging and found that the freeholders are apart of a secretive group of private investors called Adriatic Land Limited,

whom seem to have quite a large portfolio nationally but any mention of their name is linked to bad press which has got me incredibly nervous on what otherwise would have been a great first property.

Sadly, like most people, my conveyancing solicitor isn't necessarily the most helpful or easy to reach person in the world. I also feel my mortgage advisor is not working in my best interests as there is also a financial incentive for me go through with the mortgage.

So I was wondering what my options are? Do I cut my loses now or look to some potential solution to the ground rent fiasco?

I have looked into Deed of variations, could this be my saving grace, are there any alternative routes I should be looking into?....or is this a fruitless task that just delays the inevitable heartbreak of pulling out of this property?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

I'm a first-time buyer, looking to buy a house in Sheffield. Up until now, I've exclusively looked for freehold properties, because on Googling leaseholds, they just seem to be problematic.

Many houses (probably three of every four) that come on the market in the area I'm looking at in Sheffield are leaseholds, and up until now I've ignored them all, despite the overtures of estate agents that this is just how things are in Sheffield. But I had a viewing arranged for this weekend on a house, only for the ad to get updated from freehold to leasehold. Supposedly they initially listed it as freehold in error.

Anyway, I called up the estate agent and spoke to her for a few minutes about leaseholds, and the way she described it, it's really not an issue. As is the case with most Sheffield leaseholds, it's got something like 600 years left on the lease, and the lease amount is insignificant (I think £6 per year). Then after two years of owning the leasehold, I have the right to buy the freehold, and most freeholders are willing to sell anyway, if you offer them more than they're going to make on it anyway (so it'd cost maybe £500).

I explained to her about the stories I'd read online about freeholders changing leasehold amounts and essentially making a business out of charging people, and for some flat-owners it is now thousands of pounds a year, making the flat impossible to sell. Her response was that's just something done "down South", and here (Sheffield) it's not done like that, and some leaseholders don't even bother to collect the £6 per year.

This sounds great, but I'm obviously sceptical about trusting an estate agent who's trying to sell me a house, so I want to hear about other people's experiences.

The main concerns I have are:

1. If I want to do any kinds of renovations on this house (most obviously would be extending the kitchen out into the garden) would I need the freeholder's permission for this?
2. I've looked online and it is correct that I have a legal right to buy the freehold after two years of owning the lease, but it seemed a potentially time-consuming process involving lawyers if the freeholder refuses to sell. I also couldn't find how much I would likely have to pay. Has anyone gone through this process? How difficult/stressful/expensive is it?
3. If there is a problem with the house (for example, if the roof needs repair), do I have to go through the freeholder to fix this, or am I free to undertake any maintenance work on my own

Just viewed a nice flat (outside London) but the GR is £250. I know once the GR increases above £250 for a flat outside London it becomes an AST which lenders get funny about. So I was wondering if I should walk away now or maybe get my solicitor to check the lease first?

a few years ago I purchased a flat with 107 years left on the lease. Through a few changes in the local area that I won’t go into the flat is almost certainly unsellable. The flat is a 1 bed however my parents live in a largeish house in the country which as they are getting older I have considered moving back to in order to care for them.

I can comfortable afford the mortgage so could continue to pay this and leave the flat empty however I would still be liable for any repair cost. my question is what happens if I stop paying ground rent and other costs? I understand that the freeholder could void the lease and take ownership of the flat however would this notify the bank who would demand the remaining mortgage debt in full?

Hi, I am in the middle of a property purchase in Wales. I was days away from completion when my solicitors found out that the property had a leasehold attached to it with 52 years remaining. The current owner was unaware, he has never paid ground rent and has owned it for 40+ years.

The company who owned the leasehold are no longer trading. There’s no record of them online and the only document I have Of them ever existing is the lease from 1974. I have contacted bona vacantia who can’t help me as I have no evidence of the company being dissolved. They requested a sight of conveyance or the title deeds. I have contacted the land registry who have neither documents and confirmed it’s unregistered.

I’m literally stuck. There’s no evidence of the company existing apart from this one document I have with their name on it from 1974. I can not buy a property with 52 years on the lease as no mortgage company will allow it. The current owner is none the wiser, in fact he’s adamant there is no leasehold as he’s never paid it and was not aware of it at the time he purchased it. Does anyone know who else I can contact to get the lease extinguished? Or a way I can find historic company records?

The company who owned it were called “calibre (properties) limited”. Registered in Swansea. Not to be confused with a current company using the same name in Newcastle that was created in 2002. Thank you.

Hey guys, I'm looking at buying a property, I've recently found that the property has leasehold solar panels and they're only a few years into a 25 lease. I only intend on owning the property for about 5-7 years.

I've googled this and it looks like there's been lots of issues where selling the property might be troublesome as lenders do not want to take on such a debt.

I'm a little reluctant to continue this purchase now I've learned about it. It was never listed on the estate listing even though they were allegedly advised. That also gives me some red flags as to why they would not include it?

Just wondering what other peoples experiences are with this.

Hey guys, FTB buyer here that still has a lot to learn, so just looking for some insight.

There's a house on the market atm that ticks a lot of my boxes, but it says this in the description:

999 year lease from new £150 ground rent per annum Option to purchase freehold from developer is approximately £3750

Is this normal / a red flag / something that would stop you from purchasing?

For reference, its a 3-bed semi priced at £300k.

Today there has been an important announcement regarding Persimmon and Aviva setting a precedent with regards to homeowners being able to purchase their Freehold with a £2K price cap, and challenging increasing ground rent.

What will the impact be on owners of leasehold flats, and will the same conditions apply to flats as to houses, i.e. the ability to purchase the Freehold more easily and reasonably?

Thank you

Edit to add I am asking about England in particular.

https://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-leaseholders-to-benefit-as-cma-secures-deals-with-aviva-and-persimmon-12339681

Hi all,

This is not for me, I just rent an apartment upstairs in the building. I'm asking on behalf of the European guy downstairs who doesn't speak much English.

The ground floor residents own their apartments(leasehold obviously). He was telling me that the exterior cleaning fees have risen from £150 in 2020 to £1500 for 2021! Along with various other fees that seem to have been unreasonably increased. He also told me that sometimes the gardeners/cleaners aren't even doing the job they're being paid for. I'm not sure if this is a new management company that has taken over.

I seem to recall there is an official government body you can complain to about situations like this? And that apartment leaseholders have more rights than house leaseholders do?

He's spoken to his local MP who wanted to help, but was unable to because the owners or management company (not sure which) is a private company.

If you could give me any advice I could pass on to him to help him out, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

There's a property I like the look of and it was built about 10 years ago. However, I've read a lot of horror stories online about how the majority of new build leaseholds have crap ground rent clauses (I.e. Doubles every 10 years or whatever) that make it either 1. Unmortgageable or 2. Make it very risky to purchase and you can get yourself into spiralling debt from the doubling ground rent and the fact that no one wants to buy it.

So I was wondering if anyone here has bought (or is trying to) a new build leasehold flat and if they've had any issues with the ground rent clause? I just don't want to proceed with this flat just to find out that the ground rent clause is crap as I expected (because its a new build) and have to pull out after I've instructed solicitors etc.

Looking up listings for leasehold properties for sale in London - the service charge and ground rent is essential information. The length of the lease is sometimes mentioned but that's it. Essential information like the annual service charge and ground rent is not mentioned in about 95% of listings. Why do you leave this out?

I'm a first time buyer looking to buy a house in Sheffield (hopefully Crookes/Walkley). Up until now, I've considered exclusively freehold properties, because a quick Google search reveals the issues that you can run into when buying leasehold. However, the majority of houses that come onto the market in this area are leasehold, and any estate agents I've spoken to have insisted that buying leasehold properties in Sheffield is perfectly common and doesn't come with the same issues as in other parts of the country.

Perhaps because other people have the same apprehension as I do, leasehold properties are noticeably cheaper than equivalent freehold properties, and after speaking with an estate agent this week, she convinced me to view a leasehold house this weekend.

I'm of course very sceptical of trusting anything an estate agent tells me. But at the same time, if she's being honest, then I'm removing the majority of available houses, and the better value ones, from my search. So I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences.

If I can buy a house for £30k less because it's leasehold (from my searches, that seems roughly accurate) and can buy the freehold for significantly less than that in two years, then it seems a no-brainer to at least consider these houses.

Obviously the specific terms of the lease will matter, but I do know that it's a historic lease with ~600 years remaining and an annual cost of ~£6 per year. So I'd like to hear about other people's experiences of buying leasehold.

Most notably, I'd want to buy the freehold in the future. I know that after two years I have a legal right to do so, but it's also clear that if the freeholder doesn't want to sell, then it can be a real pain involving lawyers and a tribunal to do so. So for anyone who's gone through this process, how was it? Was the freeholder willing to sell? How much did it cost? How long did it take, and was it a stressful or fairly easy process?

I'm also concerned that the freeholder will technically own the house, and I most likely will want to make renovations. Have you run into any issues here? Most notably, looking at the pictures of this house, I'd like to extend the kitchen. Is the freeholder likely to block this process?

Similarly, if there's a structural issue with the house that requires repair, for example the roof needs to be redone, can I do this alone, or does it require the freeholder? I've read that the freeholder is in charge of repairs like this, so th

I had an offer accepted on a flat, but my current lender (Coventry) isn't willing to proceed because of a clause where the ground rent doubles every 25 years.

It's not a particularly problematic amount (currently £200 a year), so I'm not really concerned about the doubling, however lenders are apparently really cracking down on this sort of clause and are requiring a change so that ground rent is linked to RPI.

So I was wondering if anyone knew of lenders who might be willing to accept this type of clause, and under what sort of terms?

Interestingly this topic is due to be legislated as there are plenty of cases where ground rent doubled every five or ten years, leading to extortionate fees.

A bit of a boring one I suppose, I'll try and keep it brief.

I currently live in a maisonette property in central Birmingham. I own the property with a mortgage. Property is ground floor with several other dwellings above. Some Tennant's are lessee, some are private rental and others are social rental. The entire block/area is maintained by Citizen group, a Non-profit organisation which runs all of Birmingham's social housing.

Upon moving into my dwelling, we noted a damp patch in an area of the property. Over time, the patch got significantly worse. We identified that the cause was a leak on the dwelling above, which has a balcony over the area in question. We contacted Citizen group, who carried out repairs. Unfortunately, the plasterwork has sustained damage and I believe that it will need to be removed and replaced, approximately 6m2.

My question is this: Can I claim off Citizen's building insurance for the repair? My logic is: Their building has leaked and ruined my plaster. It's not my fault, but I have incurred costs as a result.

I did try to Google the answer, but whenever you search anything for a leaseholder, Grenfell cladding scandal dominates the results.

Based in England.

My Dad has recently moved into a care home and as power of attorney I am trying to sell his flat, I'd particularly like a quick sale as he still has to pay £700 a month in management fees for the property (this is in the lease as he has access to gardens, a gym, a swimming pool etc), the ground rent is only about £100 a year and not due to increase for 5 years.

His lease states we must put up for sale with the management company and can only sell elsewhere if they have not sold in 12 months after they have put it up for sale. It also states that in their opinion the flat should be in a reasonable condition of cleanliness (obviously something that is very subjective).

We have just painted the whole flat (my brother, who has worked as a cleaner, and his friend who used to be a painter and decorator did the work) and it considerably better decorated than it was when he bought it 3 years ago.

The management company told me they would visit with their maintenance manager and give a valuation. She instead went round with 'their painter and decorator' and said the 'attempted decoration is shoddy and the oven/ fridge are filthy and the place requires a full deep clean'. One point with the oven and fridge is that this was been cleaned by my brother weekly but in April 2020 he was sent an email (that he still has) stating that no family should be visiting due to covid and that they would clean the flat as part of my Dad's care package.

Is there anything we can do other than use their no doubt extortionate priced decorator to re do work we have done, probably to a worse standard (going on the paint job when he moved that was poor and we re did but unfortunately have no photos).

They have already been a pain with us as when we said we were moving dad to a care home they reported us to social services the day he was due to move and claimed he didn't want to leave (presumably as they were getting £2k a month in care fees from him). We had to get social services involved ourselves and get them to show he did not have capacity to make decisions (something social services agreed with). This meant my dad, who is entirely incontinent often being left for 10 hours in bed for the 2 months it took us to get an assessment from social services. So, we obviously already have a poor relationship with the management company and I can't see them being reasonable at all.

I own a leasehold flat in London which is currently tenanted. I'm an accidental landlord (I used to live there until I moved for work) and the property is managed by a lettings agent.

There is water leaking through the walls from what appears to be an issue with the roof or gutters.

The freeholder is notoriously slow to respond to any issues and impossible to get hold of. They'd need to erect scaffolding on a busy road to address the issue and I'm concerned about my tenant's safety and ongoing damage to my flat in the meantime. The leak has already tripped the power and surely poses a safety risk. It's forecast to rain all week so it's only getting worse.

I've left endless messages but I can't get hold of the freeholder directly and I know from past experience that it could be weeks before he does anything, especially if he needs all the leaseholders to agree to share the cost.

What are my options here?

Thanks in advance!

Hi all, apologies is this doesn’t fit the sub - not sure where else to go.

I’m trying to purchase the freehold to my new build (2017) home as we’re looking to extend and I figured buying the freehold was a no brainier if we’re going to be here long-term and it would avoid having to pay to get the developers permission to undertake the extension.

The developer wants £5000 for the freehold (25x our Ground Rent charges) plus their costs (~£400) which feels very steep, and has shown no interest in negotiating (I offered £3500, then £4000 plus offered to sign an NDA to prevent me from disclosing my purchase price).

Putting aside the purchase price, I also noticed the number of covenants they’ve tried to add into the agreement including (but not limited to);

*Forbidden from fixing a satellite dish onto the house

My windows must always be “cleaned to a reasonable standard

*If we do want to extend, for a period of 10 years following the purchase of the freehold (not the house build date) we would still be required to obtain and, pay for, their permission to do so.

*The developer retains the right to build up to, and on, our boundary line.

Putting aside the steep purchase price, almost all of these covenants are lifted verbatim from the current leasehold agreement, and seem to run counter to the idea of a freehold.

Do I literally have to suck it up and agree to their terms if they don’t want to negotiate or do I have any recourse to complain about what I believe is an unreasonable offer? I believe the practice was outlawed recently, but with our house being completed in 2017, we were just a couple years too early for the law to be in effect.

I can't get over the idea of paying inflated prices for a house in London and not even owning the land the house is built on. There is something so wrong with that. Especially when considering a flat, what would I actually own but an imaginary square in the sky?

Friends are being charged extortionate fees to paint their front doors a different colour. How is that acceptable? I would never feel I own a property knowing there is a lease on it, even if it is for 100 years.

I would go as far as calling it a scam. The fact that you have to pay an annual service charge (for what?) and ground rent!

Hi there,

New to this sub so I'm sorry If I post incorrectly or if the answers to this question have been made elsewhere.

I'm a first time buyer, lucky enough to have a gifted deposit from family and I'm starting a new professional job base rate 28,800. I've placed an offer on a flat that I love in Liverpool at 167,000. The issue I'm currently having is in the title as the leasehold is 85 years.

The property has 75% ownership by the residents and 25% is owned by an estate agents. They also are the freehold owners. I have been given the option to ladder up for full ownership and because I have the funds I've decided to do so on advice from colleagues. The asking price was 170,000 and there was very little budge as the owners had to front any loss because of the part ownership.

I've been in contact with the estate agents and they simply won't budge on enquiring about extending the lease, this is because of the new proposed changes the UK gov announced. I understand that it's very difficult to get an estimate because valuations change over time etc etc but I can't seem to get any estimate whatsoever at what the cost could be to extend the lease other than 1 website saying roughly 4-6k.

My questions are, is it poor judgement to go through with a purchase where the lease is at 85, even if I can extend in 2 years and marriage value doesn't take affect till 80 years?

If I put 5k into extending the lease does any of that get represented in the selling price?

If I plan to sell and move on in 2-3 years then is this all going to be OK? I'm currently in the process of getting a solicitor whom I hope well help greatly but I would love any and all advice here too.

Thank you

Kind of as the title says. Live in England. I had a report that my shower was leaking into the flat below. Got a plumber out that day who couldn’t see a leak coming from our shower, suggesting it’s coming from the pipes in the floor.

Had trace and access people round yesterday, who had to lift parts of the floor up. Found the faulty pipe - it had never been glued and joined together properly, and only hadn’t been leaking before that by pure fluke.

I’m sure this is gonna be classed as my concern rather than the landlord but figured I’d check as the buildings insurance excess is £850.

Am I the person responsible for the cost of fixing this if the pipe was never installed correctly in the first place?

TL;DR - Leak coming from a pipe under the floor that was never installed correctly. Is it me or the building/landlord that is responsible for the repair costs?

As per title, I sold my leasehold flat in February. Everything went as expected, I received the funds and mortgage was closed etc etc.

However I continued to receive emails and letters from the managing company. I called them about a month ago and they said they’d not been notified of a change in leaseholder. I immediately called my solicitors, and they stated it was the responsibility of the buyers solicitor to do this. They said they would send a notification to them about this.

Well today I received a service charge demand for the first half of the year. Clearly nothing has been done yet. It’s Friday evening so can’t contact my solicitor yet and am absolutely fuming about this. Am I required to pay this service charge? How do I force the buyer to notify the management company? Have I somehow been scammed and didn’t actually sell the flat?

Does anyone know or has done this? They may not be a great investment but options are slim.

Hi all,

I'm in the processes of looking for my first home/flat around the suburbs of Birmingham as a FTB. I've found a great place within my budget, however what immediately turned me off was the combined service charge/ground rent which is £2150 per annum, which I think is extortionate - close to being the same amount as luxury flats within the city centre of Brum or even some areas in London. There's no lift in the property, no concierge or anything, and AFAIK these are ex local authority flats too. From what I've seen elsewhere around Birmingham, the service charge for flats in these type of apartment blocks are around £700 to £1500 at most.

I'm just wondering if there's any way at all of challenging this prior to purchasing? I would hate for this to be the only thing preventing me from making an offer. Thanks.

I know some leaseholds are linked to RPI.

In my head, this meant if RPI is 2% then the rent increases by 2%.

However, it seems the leasehold that I am buying increases with the change-in-RPI over the preceding period. So, if RPI today was 2% today and 3% by the next review in 10 years, the rent would only increase by 1%. If the RPI stayed constant, then my ground rent would be constant.

Had anyone heard of this? This is very surprising to me. I don't see anything online about this kind of arrangement, as search results just get flooded with "doubling ground rents" articles.

EDIT: Thinking this through, let's say we have 10 years of massive inflation, RPI goes to 20% tomorrow and stays there for 10 years. I only pay 18% more ground rent? But the value of my ground rent * 1.2 would be negligible, considering the rest of the economy would be hugely inflated. This makes no sense for the freeholder, surely.