Gender neutrality in genderless languages Puns

I thought persian is a completely genderless/gender-neutral language, as in not only are all the nouns and verbs neutral, but also all the pronouns are neutral, meaning there are no different pronouns in the third person singular to refer to a man or a woman (e.g. equivalents of he/him, she/her, his, and hers) and instead one or more neutral pronoun(s) is or are used to refer to both men and women.

But here in the wiki page it says:

>Persian is commonly considered a genderless language, but can be considered to have a pronominal gender system with common and neuter genders represented in the pronouns.

Link to wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages#Persian

The sources for those claims go back to Jenny Audring, (2008-10-01). "Gender assignment and gender agreement: Evidence from pronominal gender languages". From that same wiki: https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs11525-009-9124-y

There was a pdf version of Jenny Audring's article shared by someone else on Quora: https://www.academia.edu/3321785/Gender_assignment_and_gender_agreement_Evidence_from_pronominal_gender_languages

>Persian’s pronouns are often regarded as genderless, but Jenny Audring has argued that common and neuter genders do exist in the pronouns:
>
>Gender assignment and gender agreement: Evidence from pronominal gender languages: https://www.academia.edu/3321785/Gender_assignment_and_gender_agreement_Evidence_from_pronominal_gender_languages
>
>Because of this, she classifies Persian as a language with a pronominal gender system alongside English, only that there are 2 genders (common-neuter) versus 3 (masculine-feminine-neuter).

Link to the Quora answer: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-said-that-Persian-doesnt-have-gender-in-its-pronouns/answer/Erika-Butler-%E3%83%90%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC-%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AB

Can a native farsi speaker please answer the following que

I've been wondering if research on this topic shows a clear consensus.

By searching for studies with the keywords "Sapir Whorf and sexism" I've stumbled upon some interesting studies such as this one https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338719001_How_Language_Shapes_Prejudice_Against_Women_An_Examination_Across_45_World_Languages which show a significant correlation between gendered languages and gender prejudice

But one thing that bugs me is that in their sample, the vast majority of gendered languages seem to come from the Indo European language family, and Proto Indo Europeans were a patriarchal society whereas their genderless sample was more varied so there could be a clear bias against gendered languages.

Am I wrong to think so? Are there other studies that show a clearer link?

thanks

How can we apply gender neutrality language rules to other languages other than English, where, gender is necessary to use in writing as well as in speaking?

I am /not/ trying to start a religious discussion. Just a thought on gender neutral names. Please keep things as secular as possible

Another example would be the shift from using "he" to refer to an individual of unknown gender to "they"; although the gender neutral singular "they" obviously has significant historical precedence.

Example: In this link we have someone that wants to be referred to as "they."

In English this is pretty straight forward - "They would like a glass of water." But, in Spanish, from what I can remember, "A ellos les gustaria un vaso de agua" (translated like before) can have either 'Ellos' (male/collective) or 'Ellas' (Female). Wouldn't people be offended by either ending in o/a? Maybe it's not as much of an issue in Spanish speaking countries? Maybe there is another word used?

Just genuinely curious.

In Serbian, we have Minja and Vanja. Minja pretty strongly implies a girl, but Vanja is basically 50-50. Any such examples in neighboring languages?

Discuss.

Filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler.

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I've been thinking a lot about gender recently and been a bit confused about it all.

I've never felt particularly attached to my assigned gender, but equally I have no interest in being the opposite. I think my issue is that I don't associate any physical or personality traits as belonging to any one gender.

So I guess what I'm saying is that i think I don't identify with gender at all.

Is there a word for that??

ETA I prefer they/them

Eta again, my first name is one that's only used by people of my assigned gender but there are neutral nickname versions (think Alexander/Alex or Nicola/Nicky) so that's not really a cause of any discomfort for me

I have done a little research on gender neutral pronouns. Don’t be too strict, please. English is not my first language.

by u/EssayTop35 (he/they)

Contents

1. Gender 1.1 A social construct 1.2 Gender identities

2. They/Them 1.1 General information 1.2 A plural pronoun?

3. Neopronouns

4. Gender 1.1 A social construct

Many people, especially LGBTQ+ people, may say “Gender is a social construct!” But what does it mean? It means that gender is not the same as gender assigned at birth (later used as AGAB, AFAB, AMAB). There are two possible genders to be assigned at birth with. Male and female. But we already know, gender is a spectrum. Some people don’t feel like the gender thy were assigned as at birth. Into these people count ftm and mtf transgender people and people under the a little more descriptive umbrella term non-binary. There are so much gender identities under these umbrellas. Technically, there could be 7.9 billion gender identities because everyone experiences gender a little different.

1.1 Gender identities

People can identify apart from their AGAB. Transgender people have a gender identity or gender expression that differs from the sex that they were assigned at birth which can be the opposite binary gender or a gender identity outside of the binary. The term for people who identify as their AGAB are called cisgender. Another common gender identity is non-binary. The umbrella term stands for all gender identities outside of the gender binary. Examples for gender identities out of the gender binary are:

• Agender (genderless)
• Genderfluid (gender changes)
• Genderflux (gender intensity changes) - Boy/girlflux (gender intensity changes) - Intersex (no clear AGAB) just to name a few.

2. They/them

1.1 General information

Singular they is the use in English of the pronoun they or its inflected or derivative forms, them, their, theirs, and themselves (or themself), as gender-neutral singular pronoun. Some people use a double (or more) set of pronouns. For examlpe, he/they and she/they. When talking, you should mix the pronouns up. Examples of usage:  "Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Could you please let them know where they can get it?"  "The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay."  "But a journalist should not be forced to reveal their sources."  Pronoun set: He is my boyfriend. I love them so much.

1.2 A plural pronoun?

Many people complain that it’s ungrammatical to use they

I am really struggling to find a way I'm comfortable being addressed in my mother tongue, as there aren't really any gender neutral pronouns/articles and even that aside, all adjectives are gendered. A lot of people use @ or * instead in writing, and I'm mostly fine with it, but it doesn't work very well in spoken language. Are there any alternatives? I know spanish and french (and other romance languages) speakers have similar problems, so even if you're not greek, I would appreciate your input and recommendations.

Does this include emoji pronouns and/or word pronouns (bun/bunself, cat/catself etc)? Yes, this includes any made up pronoun that does not already exist in any language.

I’m on the fence about them. While I don’t mind if someone uses them, I personally can’t understand them and how they work in any language. As in, my brain isn’t able to process it as an actual pronoun.

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