Hi, friendly European here curious about something. I wonder how different are sunni and shia variants of islam. Are there deep theological differences? Is there a conflict betwwen scholars of both types? Does it matter to people in every day life? Would a shia girl be allowed to marry a sunni boy ?
In Turkey they favor Ali. Muawiya and Umayyads in general are heavily criticized and shitted on. it also glorifies Abbasids and three caliph.
Recently I think we have a few Sunni Muslims here on the sub. Maybe some of them have converted to Sunni Islam from Ahmadiyya Islam or some are just interested in whole discussion about Ahmadiyya.
For me, Sunni version of Islam is ideologically far worse than Ahmadiyya. Being a small cult-like organisation Ahmadiyya have lots of issues within the organisational structure. But ideologically I find Ahmadiyya far better in terms of extremism & superstitious beliefs (I'm speaking relatively).
For example, Ahmadis don't consider death for apostasy, but I'm sure thousands of respected Sunni Imams would consider death as an appropriate punishment for leaving Islam. If a Sunni personally doesn't believe in death penalty then he should deem any Imams preaching that as terrorists. In this regard, Imam Bukhari was a terrorist because he believed in death penalty.
Then what about Isa? Do you guys really believe he was literally taken up to the heavens and a doppelganger was crucfied? And Muhammad literally flew to heaven on winged horse?
And what about punishment to homosexuals? Would you guys support killing of homosexuals convicted of adultery under an Islamic government? If you don't support it, would you guys protest against such barbaric laws?
I was raised Shi'ite*, so what I was taught growing up was that Ali was appointed the successor by Muhammad, but there was a coup by Umar and Abu Bakr after the Prophet's death, denying Ali his rightful inheritance, so to speak. And then after some time, the first Ummayad Caliph, Mu'auiyah** killed Hussein (son of Ali, grandson of Muhammad, fourth Shi'ite Imam) in the battle of Karbala, thereby sealing the schism "with the blood of the Prophet's grandchildren", as it was dramatically put. Some more stuff happened in between and afterwards, but thats the gist of the Twelver Shi'ite narrative as I understood it growing up.
On the other hand, there is the Sunni or orthodox narrative, which is much more common. From what I understand, the story goes: Muhammad dies, Abu Bakr gets elected Caliph; Abu Bakr appoints Umar as his successor, who is succeeded by Uthman, then Ali. After Ali, the Ummayads take over, and the rest is history. Or at least, there is some agreement between the two sects over the big picture after this point.
So, to my main question: what's the historical explanation for all this? How do historians reconcile these two narratives? Or do they give more weight to the Sunni narrative, considering 90% of Muslims are Sunni? Most academic work I've seen takes the latter position, which makes sense to me. Is this a correct understanding of the work being done in this field?
Second, the way these narratives are told traditionally seems to me to emphasise the importance of personality, or morality, or some later religious or political position. In other words, these seem more like myths than historical sources. So what are the social, economic, and political causes for the schism?
*I am no longer religious, but I mention this to explain my premise. Also, I mean Twelver Shi'ite, or Ja'afari Shi'ite, who are the largest branch of Shi'ites iirc.
**I have no idea if this is the right transliteration.
I know America is fuelling this war by giving money and weapons but these people who are actually fighting in the war, are they fighting because of sunni/shia differences
My family are ordinary Sunni Muslims, but one of my parents closest Bangladeshi friends family are from a Sufi branch, the way they pray is completely different and as someone who likes studying religions I thought it was interesting. Doing a bit of research Iβve found there are various sects in bangladesh like the Ahmadiβs (some donβt consider them Muslims), some Shia Muslims and a few others.
Other than that, for the people that actually live in bangladesh, how many non muslim friends do you have? How large are these communities?
From my own observation it seems that more Shia muslims are trageted and killed by Sunni muslims than atheists or apostates. Obviously this is because they are more easily identifiable, but what would you predict the reaction to your conversion to be?
This is complicated so I'll try carefully to explain.
I'm from Northern Ireland, and we have a history of religious conflict between Protestants and Roman Catholics, a situation which is sometimes compared to Lebanon's sectarian problems for example.
Nowadays, like most of Europe, Northern Ireland has many secular people, but many people who don't even consider themselves Christian still identify as "cultural" Protestants or Catholics, stick fiercely to their group, and continue to stereotype the other community based on behaviours.
If you ask a "Catholic" to sum up Protestants, for example, the Catholic will not talk about the importance of scripture, or the number of sacraments, or Original Sin - they will say that Protestants are rich, emotionally reserved, arrogant, love horse-riding and baking and cleaning, and have no sense of humour. If you ask a Protestant to sum up Catholics, he might say that they are lazy, alcoholic, sociable, and love gambling.
To a slightly lesser extent, these stereotypes are true across Europe and the US - generally, Catholics are seen to be more fun, a bit lazy, to care more about family and the community, and to have lots of babies. Most of these stereotypes originate from the lifestyle in Catholic Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain. By contrast, the countries of northern Europe like Germany, Britain, Netherlands and Sweden have a reputation for being hardworking, dull, and individualistic, which mostly originate from the Industrial Revolution beginning in these places. Even within countries these stereotypes exist, like in Germany, where there is a noticeable north/south divide based on religious tradition.
So anyway, I've been trying to research the main traditions of Islam out of an interest in Middle Eastern culture, and it's just not connecting with me because I'm only seeing theological explanations about Ali and Abu Bakr. I know that people are more devout in the Middle East, but I'm struggling to accept that these small religious details are the only difference between the two main branches of Islam. I'm wondering if cultural divides are also a feature of the split, like in Christianity, because it would make a lot more sense to me if bricklayers in Riyadh make jokes about Iranians being arrogant / lazy / bad at driving etc, rather than distrusting them because of a 1300+ year old disagreement over inheritance law.
I hope none of this is offensive. Just trying to make sense of a very different worl
... keep reading on reddit β‘EDIT: After some questions I'll add these 2 points.
- Islam has one age for consent to marriage and intercourse. Since extramarital intercourse is zina, there is no separate age for consent. The Age of Consent in Islam is 9. for girls.
- Muslim Apologists that claim that Islam has not age of consent to marriage are not being truthful. In Islamic law the Age of Consent to marriage is 9.
Just since some claim that Islam supposedly does not have an age of consent. The age is 9.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42558328 Turkish child marriage religious document sparks anger Published3 January 2018. Prdominantly Sunni Turkey "It said that, according to Islamic law, the beginning of adolescence for boys was the age of 12 and for girls the age of nine. On the same website, it said that whoever reached the age of adolescence had the right to marry.".
In Sunni Turkey the government advice by clerics was 9 for girls as age to marry. Irrespective of individual girls being pre-pubescent or not.
https://irannewswire.org/the-plight-of-irans-little-brides-report-on-child-marriages/ "The so-called βchild spouseβ bill, introduced into parliament in 2016, proposed an absolute ban on the marriage of girls under age 13 and an absolute ban for the marriage of boys under 16.
Hassan Nourozi, the spokesperson of the parliamentβs legal commission defended the commissionβs rejection of the bill.
βIn our opinion, there are some problems in the proposed bill because many of the criteria are not acceptable. According to the representatives in the Legal Commission, a 15 year old girl is not considered a child β¦ and is fit to marry,β the cleric said.
Nourozi said that according to the sharia laws, Qom jurisprudence and Iranian and Lebanese experts, a girl goes into puberty at 9 years of age and can be considered as fit to marry...........................According to statistics from official sources, the marriages of at least 37,000 girls between the ages of 10 to 14 were registered in Iran in 2017. This does not include marriages that were not legally registered.................2014, 40,000 children married including 176 children who were under the age of 10." So Iran indeed has a parliamentary committee of clerics that say 9 is the age of maturity. 176 girls under the age of 10 married in 2014 on that basis.
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... keep reading on reddit β‘If Muhammad didn't forget to choose a successor, muslims wouldn't be divided into sunnis and shias. How was muhammad flawless when he couldn't be bothered to do a simple task which resulted in huge consequences in the islamic world
the Title
There are no Sunni Shia and Wahhabi in Islam or Quran.
Allah says in Quran Surah Ale Imran Ch.3 V.103 hold the rope of Allah strongly and do not be divided. We have to hold the rope of Allah and authentic Hadith of our beloved prophet Mohammad (PBUM) and Allah says in Surah Anβaam Ch.6 V.159 oh prophet if anyone make sects or division in Islam we have nothing to do with him. Allah will judge in the day of judgment.
You're all Muslims.
And as long as you continue divisions (egos, tribalism, being born into a forefathers legacy, cultural), you'll continue to have no honor in this world
Hello. I am a 17 year old Sunni Muslim and Iβve recently taken a interest in the Shia sect (Twelver) can you give me a good synopsis of basic beliefs as well as stuff I can read and watch to learn more? Also I think itβs important to say that my interest in Shiism started when I began to read about the martyr Hussain (A.S) and the sacrifice he made to uphold righteousness.
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Idk if this sub is appropriate for this but maybe I just need to rant it out. Just attended a jummah prayer and the khutba was about how Shias are non Muslims. Now I'm an exmuslim and equally dislike all of the sects of Islam and I think all of them are equally non sense. But to give khutba against a community already persecuted in this country. This made me so fucking angry. And a few days ago there was a protest too of a Sunni jamaat against Shias. Can anyone tell me why Sunnis think they have the correct sect of Islam?
Jihad, Global Holy War, is specific to Sunni Wahhabi Islam and all the international violent terrorists are Sunni Wahhabi Islam Arabs.
