Soundstage Puns

I just got a new pair of discounted HD6XX headphones after many recommendations and it being quoted as the "standard" for audiophile headphones. This will be my first entry into the audiophile community.

I've got to note that I am not an audiophile, so please dont blast me in the comments ! but I do appreciate a wide soundstage/separation, to feel like I am in the room of the music being played. Im starting to think the purchase of the HD6XX's was a mistake.

Would it be worth changing to something like an AKG K712 ? or what other inexpensive headphones would you recommend?

Or would doing something like that reduce my overall music quality in place of just soundstage ? I think the HD6XX has good clarity and I can pinpoint the vocals easily. What is the hype of the HD6XX/650's about anyway, why do you all say that it is so good ? (I have nothing to compare it to, except some cheap bluetooth headphones - WH-1000XM3 )

Almost everyone is talking about the "soundstage" of headphones and I know what is meant by that, however I never have the impression of a soundstage myself. Somehow it just doesn't work for me.

I am listening to music with Beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (250 Ohm, plugged to a Sound BlasterX G5) and they are said to have some soundstage so I thought I'd notice this too but this isn't the case. I hear instruments next to my right ear and my left ear but there is nothing in front of me, behind me or whatever. I never have any kind of 3D impression, always just left and right.

I tried different songs and genres but I couldn't find anything where it works for me.

Now I am asking myself what is the reason for that? Is it just me? Are my headphones not good enough? Do I have a wrong idea of that soundstage thing? Maybe you guys can recommend me some titles where this effect is especially big.

Any ideas are highly appreciated :)

I've learned that it's not the amplifier's power output that makes my speakers sound more detailed and alive. In fact, 30W and 150W otherwise identical amplifiers will sound identical at ~5% volume with my DALI Oberon 1 6ohm speakers. Is this correct? Of course, in real world the two amplifiers will have a ton of differences which will affect the sound, but their power output doesn't seem to be the key.

So now I am at looking at frequency response variations, for instance. A few examples:

• Cambridge Audio CXA81: <5Hz – 60kHz +/-1dB
• Rega Brio: 12Hz (-1dB points) to 43KHz (-3dB points)
• NAD d3045: ±0.2dB (20Hz - 20kHz)

In this (comprehensive and easy to read) article on frequency response they say that

>For speakers, headphones and microphones, ± 2 or 3dB is considered very good. Amplifiers, CD/DVD players and other ‘strictly electronic’ devices should be within ± 0.5 or 1dB at the most.

I probably shouldn't care much about the actual range as long as it's the audible 20Hz - 20kHz (I am much older than an infant, so my range is likely to be less than that), but I wonder if I can hear the FR variations? And how do they affect the sound (all the separation, imaging, soundstage)?

I'm also surprised most manufacturers state FR variations as if they are constant across the whole range (Rega seems to be a rare exception).

I found a (seemingly) great post on the subject at Audio Science Review forum:

>Yes, amplifiers with otherwise identical traditional measured response, let's say within a quarter dB 20 to 20 and less than .01% distortion and maybe, 90 dB SNR and the same power can sound different. But, it has much more to do with how they interact with the load. Specifically how the difference in VAS loading compensation vs Miller or TM compensation changes the levels of harmonics across the spectrum and if crappy speakers, it can cause IM with a badly behaved tweeter resulting in plain old harmonic distortion in the audible range. Non-linearities of the output stage can be different, leading to "compression" that is slightly different. This is why some prefer a MOSFET output as they are a little more linear. Others just do the right thing and run more pairs of outputs. Static measurements do not show this and there is no standard number or graph that does other than

So I've recently gotten into this whole hobby of proper headphones that have good sonic qualities (such as soundstaging/imaging, dynamics, etc.), and some of the most enjoyable listening I've been though has been listening to songs that are presented in a way that normal commercial headphones couldn't. An example would be listening to the Star Wars main theme with my Focal Clears and hearing the instrument separation, being able to pinpoint exactly where every group of instruments comes from. Absolutely stunning!

What are some other songs that made you guys have that "wow, so this is soundstage/imaging/dynamics/presentation" feeling when you listened to them with your hifi gear?

I'm a BLON BL-03 owner and I was about to buy Moondrop Aria as an upgrade IEM, but stopped myself to reconsider What I exactly want.

My most important considerations to purchase my next IEM are as follows:

1. Closest to Harman tagert curve

2. Widest soundstage possible for a $100 IEM

3. Excellent tonality and technicality possible for a $100 IEM

4. Comfortable to wear, BLON BL-03 fits almost perfect for me

5. Rich and full bodied sound

6. Doesn't need a DAC AMP to reach its fullest potential

Personally I don't really hear the 3-blob, but I see many people who have the HD600 series headphones frequently talking about the 3-blob soundstage.

It's mainly a curiosity of mine but I would like to know what design choices or parts of the frequency response resulted in this perception.

I'm looking for an IEM that gives you that immersive 3D feeling. My budget is $600 but if there's something really good for 100 or so more I'd consider it. Also, is the Dragonfly Cobalt worth it if I already have an iPhone 13 or is the DAC on my phone good enough already.

One condition, I don't want an anime girl on the earphone.

In the quest of a good pair of iem/headphones with well balanced sounds. Previously used earphones in order: Cheap mobile headset< Onemore Piston Fit < Samsung Level U. Onemore were nice but not as good as Samsung. They lasted for about a year, then went missing. Found 'em on the roof one day dismantled. Chhote bhai "experiment" kar rha tha.

Samsungs are nice. A big jump in quality from the Piston fit lekin gift tha, use nhi horaha tha ,aur chhoti behen ne kabza karliya😞

Surprisingly, my plastic fantastic lasted me for 1 year and then yesterday one earpiece stopped working.

Some options I found were: Oppo m42 (Upcoming) KZ ZST X KZ ZSN pro/pro X KZ edx pro TRN MT1

These will stay in a case from now on.

I was recently watching some reviews and some streamers who game.

In a short time span, they moved on from the HD 800S to something like the the HD 599s. I can see how someone would be attracted to that aspect of headphones if they're a fan of classical music, so the question I wanted to ask: is soundstage a sham insofar as effectiveness when playing games?

As long as you have a circular stage that's above average in width, wouldn't imaging be the most important thing if you just wanted some good enough headphones for gaming? I don't think you'd be able to accurately gauge distance with a specific headphone - it would be the product of the recording, no?

Sorry once again to bother you with all my questions. -_- I didn't find any information in the FAQ. If there was a thread about this, feel free to copy past the link ! ;-)

I have some question about the soundstage of headphone. How can it be done ? I've some hypothesis.
1st : The shape of the enclosure can change it. For example an oval shaped earcup can lead to a different soundstage compared to a circular shaped one.
2nd : The height of the transducer above the pinna.
3rd : The closed / opened enclosure (already validated)
4th : The amount of opening. For example the AKG K612 Pro / K701, the Senn HD600 and the Senn HD800 don't have the same gird that covers the back of the transducer.
5th : The earpads architecture
6th : The architecture of the inside of the earcup, if it has a special pattern such as a grid.

Now for the IEM, I clearely have no clues about how it can be done, as you don't have the pinna flange to deal with it.

Hello! Right now I'm looking for something a bit "opposite" from my daily driver, a pair of 6XX's. I love them but I have found the bass to be lacking on a lot of tracks and while they sound great for singleplayer games, there is no easy way to attach a mic to them for talking to my friends. Also for reference, I have an Atom stack but I'd rather be lazy and not have to set it up for gaming each time.

The one pair I keep coming back to are the Fidelio X2HR's, which seem to have both great bass and soundstage for their price point. It also seems easy to attach an aftermarket mic to them. However, I have heard they have a lot of treble (I am quite sensitive) and any EQ will kill the soundstage.

I have also heard good things about the Sennheiser PC38X as a more dedicated gaming headphone. I don't know how good they would sound for music which does kinda matter, but they seem best-in-slot for gaming.

The other options I've thought of are just getting the HyperX Cloud 2's, or saving up for the AKG K712. I've heard the Cloud 2's are decent for "gamer headphones" and are also 1/2 the price of anything else on here. The K712 on the other hand seems to have the best soundstage out of anything sub-$1000 but I don't know about how well it could be used for games.

I'm leaning towards the X2HRs but any other suggestions would be great :)

I mean using closed-backs for every use case from casual listening to whatever sound system you have set up. I just always hear how much better open-backs are for having clarity and space within a song whereas closed-backs make the music more close and tight. Just curious why you personally prefer closed to open.

I am mainly intrested in listening to broad range of songs and for late night movie watching at times. Would the upgrade be significant when coming from the M40x?

ls there any dac you would recommend as I have my eyes on the Zen dac V2 but unfortunately it doesn't have an optical port for movie watching.

Thanks in advance.

Long ago I had a Sanaa Fuse which I ran rockbox on. Paired with sennheiser CX 300 somethings. I know this is low level gear to you guys, but the settings on rockbox gave the most amazing wide soundstage for me. After lurking here I bought some KZ ZS10 Pros. (I know I'm still low end). They sound amazing and 100% better than the senns, what I need is how to recreate that wide soundstage on android. Any app recommendations?

The soundstage of M50X is small but they just sound so lively, powerful and epic. The only problem is that it's all located in a very small space. K702 or K712 both have massively bigger soundstages but I feel like they lack the punch in the middle. That seems especially noticeable with respects to vocals. That's both with stock performance as well with Oratory1990's EQ settings. It's also not a matter of loudness (M50X are easy to drive).

Are these two traits mutually exclusive?

Also, if we could add to that more powerful bass as in DT770 then it would be perfect.

Preferably under $600 on sale. I've already tried Senneheiser 600, 650, Hifiman Sundara (not bad), Shure 1840, AKG K702 and none really fit the description.

I wanted some open back headphones and after reading a healthy amount of reviews I decided on Sennheiser HD 560S. One of the reviews even said that they sound like you'd have some speakers in front of you at about 30cm but it doesn't feel like that at all. Also, compared to my M40X, the soundstage (sensation that the sound is coming from the front instead of from the sides or in your head from what I read and understood) is very similar, almost the same. The only difference is the sound being way more natural in the frequency response and it feels a little wider, more stereo to say.

Edit: forgot to mention, I'm using them on my phone (Samsung Galaxy A52 4G) and Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd gen audio interface

Not sure how to best describe what I'm looking for, but I basically want clarity and the ability to hear everything going on. For example, I have had Bose Companion speakers for the longest time, and they're pretty useless in this regard. I don't hear all the little details, but when I put on my HD6XX I can hear everything in a mix. I saw Micca RB42 recommended in this price range, but I also read people say they can be bass heavy. I don't mind bass but I'm mostly just looking for the ability to discern a lot of details and I'm worried too much bass obscures that. I know little about audio though so feel free to correct me if it's a misconception.

Use cases are mostly for games and music, but mostly games when I don't feel like using headphones. Loudness is not important and they can be powered or require an amp. Thanks!

I've been using the HD6XX for the last few weeks. I like the warmth, detail and "veiled" treble response! I am however really missing this feeling of "space" and "stage" that I had in other headphones (like my DT 770s, which it turns out have really decent soundstage for a closed back). I think it's because the HD6XX have below-average soundstage and imaging, and combined it's giving me a really tight/claustrophobic feeling, but I'm not sure (could be something else?)

Can anyone recommend an alternative that might be a little less detailed or a little brighter but similar and with a better stage or imaging quality? I really think any shift in that direction would make a huge difference for me.

I know that I can improve some of these issues with different gear but I'm not too crazy about spending $300-400+ on a tube amp. I am however OK with selling the HD6XX and getting a $400 headphone.

The headphones I am looking at trying (if you have tried one of these and the 6x0 please send me your thoughts): Sundara, DT880, AKG K712 Pro, AKG K612 Pro

Thanks so much

I have a pair of HD 6XX which I love very much, but I tend to not enjoy some hip hop or rock songs that much as they are a little underwhelming for me for rock in particular, I am looking for an option out there that I can turn to sometimes that are fun with an emphasis on bass and soundstage with at least some kind of decent detail retrieval. Any help is appreciated thank you!

Closed back preferred but open back is fine, also they must be compatible with Magni 3+

Edit: for clarity

Good soundstage is a must. I tried k702 and they're amazing in this respect but they sound somewhat robotic and metallic in comparison to Sundara. Sundara are better overall but the jump isn't massive. I've seen some people say that Ananda can surround you with sound and that's exactly the type of effect I'm looking for. The bass on Sundara is something I'm not a big fan of, it's good but with all EQ tinkering and bass boosts from my Zen Can and Fiio e10k I can't tell that it's better than K702, DT990 600Ohm or HD681. In fact, I feel like Hd681 has the most fun bass of those. K702 go from no bass at all in their default to having really good thump too. Sundara sound the most natural and realistic though and they deal better with a lot of sounds. For example, when I play Horizon Zero Dawn and get into a fight with a thunderjaw, both K702 and DT990 sound like they get a little bit distorted when there are tons of sounds at the same time and I want to turn down the volume sometimes. Sundara deals with that the best.

That $1000 range is for new headphones only, realistically I'm probably going to get a pair second-hand or open-box for significantly less money.

I'll most likely drive them with a fiio e10k+Zen Can combo. Can be both open and closed back. I'm going to try oratory1990's EQ profiles for sure.

The title says it all but...

They opened with "See You Next Fall" and closed down the place with "Blood and Sand/Milk and Endless Waters"

I am very new to this and Im sorry if this has been asked many times.

Being new to this hobby the thing that wows me most is soundstage that a quality headphone offers and the details, all those new sounds I discovered in my favourite track.

I have no doubt on the detail iems can offer. But I doubt they can provide soundstage !

So help me in getting one !

I own a btr5 and that would drive them.

what is the S tier in soundstage size category in totl iem nowadays?

was quite amazed with the og solaris i tried back then.

Check out this track on TIDAL: "Tales of Girls, Boys and Marsupials" by The Wombats https://tidal.com/track/1205046