How do you respond to the typical anti-intermediate state arguments such as Lazarus and the good thief going to their destinations immediately?

What scriptural evidence do you use to back up the intermediate state’s existence (preferably NT)?

It is my understanding that the LCMS rejects all forms of intermediate state theology Pergatory, Hades, Sheol etc. If this is so how do we respond to verses like Rev 20:13-14

Edit: does anyone know of good books on this subject.

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This subreddit is a place to discuss Conditional Immortality in an al-encompassing way. This includes opinions on the final punishment of the lost as well as the intermediate state (the time between death and resurrection). Proponents of Conditional Immortality differ on thoughts of the intermediate state. Some believe that we continue to have an experienced existence in some capacity, while others do not. This post is for the latter group that does not believe people experience any form of consciousness in the intermediate state. Because of this, only those who hold to this position may make top-level comments. Other comments should be under the designated mod comment.

Luke 23:32-43 (CSB)

>Two others—criminals—were also led away to be executed with him. When they arrived at the place called The Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals, one on the right and one on the left. Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, because they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided his clothes and cast lots.
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>The people stood watching, and even the leaders were scoffing: “He saved others; let him save himself if this is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One!” The soldiers also mocked him. They came offering him sour wine and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself!”
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>An inscription was above him: This Is the King of the Jews.
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>Then one of the criminals hanging there began to yell insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
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>But the other answered, rebuking him: “Don’t you even fear God, since you are undergoing the same punishment? We are punished justly, because we’re getting back what we deserve for the things we did, but this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
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>And he said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

[Full Chapter for context]

If Jesus tells the thief on the cross next to him that today he will be with Him in paradise, doesn't that indicate that there is blissful place that they would be going to after they died on their respective crosses? If so, how does this square with a lack of consciousness in the intermediate state? I

Is 22 federal and 9.3 state tax high enough to consider munis? Most of what I have read says no for 12 percent and yes for 35 percent. What about 31.3 percent?

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For relevant translational purposes, there will be two translations of the same passage here. I'll bold/italicize relevant sections in the first translation.

>There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
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>But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
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>Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
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>And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
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>And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

-Luke 16:19-31 KJV [Full Chapter]

> “There was a rich man who would dress in purple and fine linen, feasting lavishly every day. But a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, was lying at his gate. He longed to be filled with what fell from the rich man’s table, but instead the dogs would come and lick his sores. One day the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. And being i

Hello! The documentation and references for gaussian's ONIOM for large molecules guide references reactants and products, however the systems shown as example are a simple 1 step mechanism.

I am trying to model an enzyme catalysis with at least 2 intermediaries.

For such a reaction, should I do SValue validation on the intermediaries too, or is it sufficient to run it on the initial and final states?

I'd ask my supervisor but he's on a vacation until next week, and my labmate has no idea either (his own project was already validated through literature, he just did minor adjustments).

I'm mainly asking as I hope to reduce computation time, as UFF:UFF needed for SValue validation is not that long... It quickly becomes long if I run it for each intermediary (especially since the purpose of my project is to determine what the actual reaction pathway is based on what's been proposed by experimental papers, and that'd be a LOT of options to validate).

Currently im agnostic between ECT and CI. Im reading alot on CI and am becoming more and more convinced of its truth.

I have read and listened to Fudge. Been reading some seventh day Adventists like froom on the subject also. Chris Date too and others at rethinking hell.

What i find often unaddressed is the question of the intermediate state.

Many seem to hold to soul sleep. Date and Froom do. While im more convinced on the CI position i am not at all convinced of a denial of dualism. Eg. Transfiguration - the souls of Moses and Elijah are there. Not some phantom fake moses. Likewise christ saying on the cross today you will be with me in paradise to the criminal. And the story of lazarus and the rich man clearly was teaching an intermediary state. Not some fiction.

Anyway, i dont buy soul sleep or pure materialism (that soul and body are essentially the same thing).

Are there any prominent conditional immortality authors who maintain an intermediary state before judgement? Can you please link me their works?

Cannot man have both "body and soul" and both be merely mortal. The body can be killed by physical means, the soul by the fires of gehenna at Gods discretion? I would definitely hold like fudge that God could and likely would protract torment for an individual depending on their sin (per Rom 2).

Noticed this a couple days ago. In the music video for "Heathens" (released in 2016, between Blurryface and Trench), Tyler is seen preforming for a group of criminals with his classic blackened neck, and a yellow jacket. But the black on his neck is faded and not as dark as it had been in past videos and shows, signalling the end of the Blurryface era, and the jacket is yellow, but not as bright as Bandito yellow, slowly ushering in the era of Trench. That's it.

https://preview.redd.it/6n8l6v0xxs661.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3f93157bc38fd1cb7c14b2f496c13e07dc00354