UK Petition: oppose discrimination, but don’t ban criticism of religion humanism.org.uk/what-you-…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/republicn
πŸ“…︎ Jul 04 2019
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Non-western immigrants want to ban criticism of religion in Denmark cphpost.dk/news/immigrant…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/BrautanGud
πŸ“…︎ Oct 21 2019
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What's the reasoning behind the commonly accepted idea that one should "criticise ideas and not people"? I've heard SH say this, amongst others, and it's relevant with regards to debates around Islamophobia and criticism of religion in general.

I'm a bit worried about posting this question at all, because it seems to be really obvious to people that we should conform to this idea. It's taken for granted by people on all sides, it seems, and here I am, not getting it.

That is ... I think I get it with regards to specific scenarios. Let's say I'm criticising the Jehovah's Witness branch of Christianity. They do, for example, believe in the global flood, and Noah's ark, etc. Here it makes quite a lot of sense to attack those ideas on a theoretical level, explaining why they are wrong, as opposed to just saying that they are morons and go about my day. Right?

And from a psychological perspective, it probably isn't helpful, if I hope to change minds, to attack do both, and give my explanation, and follow up with JWs are morons for not getting this. Right?

But in criticising various religions, it seems like most atheists (of the religion-debating kind) is fine with both ridicule and jokes at the expense of the ideas. And also, on more serious notes, expressing vitriol for the worst ideas and practices.

This very quickly gets blurry for me. Especially if we're talking about practises, which most definitely aren't done by abstract ideas, but people.
In my view it's totally fine to criticise people for doing bad things, so I don't really blame anyone for this. But it conflicts with the high regard for only criticising ideas.
Is it only okay to criticise the idea of FGM, or can we criticise the people doing it?

Imo ideas themselves are harmless if they are not inside someones head, and when inside someones head, it matters what that idea means to that person, right? It matters if a person owns a rife for self defence, hunting, or school shootings, right? The idea of buying a rifle can have vastly different consequences depending on exactly what the idea entails.

I'd criticise a person, if I could know that he had the idea of considering school shootings. In fact I would stop him if I could know that he was going to do it.

So when is it really wrong to criticise people? Criticism, if deserved, isn't bad, is it?

Back to the Jehovah's Witnesses, and my criticism of the belief in the great flood;
wouldn't you say that my criticism of that was a criticism of people, of a belief that a particular group of people have in common?
If I say that "X is wrong", and "group Y believe X", then I can fairly

... keep reading on reddit ➑

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πŸ“…︎ Aug 24 2019
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Treating Muslims like excitable children who cannot deal with criticism of their religion is also bigotry opindia.com/2019/02/treat…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/YoghurtFields
πŸ“…︎ Feb 19 2019
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I personally see the parable of The Blind Men and the Elephant, from a mystical perspective, not as a criticism of organized religions. youtu.be/QY5hc2gz694
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Yahwings
πŸ“…︎ Jul 12 2019
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Muslims CANNOT take criticism of their religion and they act like immature cry babies who will insult you for anything if you say one negative thing about their stupid religion. (Long).

Just a little background about me.

I'm a white American and was never Muslim. I was sorta raised catholic but didn't give a fuck about it after I was about 14. I stopped going to Sunday mass around that time. I became an atheist around that time. My parents thankfully never shoved anything down my throat. Ever since I went through a sort of enlightenment if you would call it that I always thought it was stupid how even prominent atheists give Islam a free pass and say that it's a religion just like any other.

Anyway, now that that's out of the way, I have a rant. Today I commented on a Facebook post that Google made of Muslims and their stupid Ramadan. I said how Google and people in general never seem to want to see the very dark reality behind Islam despite all of the horrible things that have been done in its name and now there is a creeping theocracy of it around the world.

But right when I did this (yes I did get some positive reactions) but the comments really got under my skin. This one guy went to say that, judging by the picture of me on my profile, I look like the kind of white guy that would shoot up a school because I got rejected by a girl. This hits close to home since I've actually had trouble getting a GF throughout my life. I already suffer from depression, social anxiety and aspergers and this asshole put me in a horrible mood. Fuck him. Furthermore, he went on to say that I likely live in my mom's basement (that's a real clever one isn't it?). They also made fun of me for working in a grocery store. I guess they missed the part that I'm a broke college student who has to make some money. Sorry. I'll take my communications major with a secular understanding of the world than someone majoring in Islamic studies, judging by his profile that I saw. I'm also only 20 years old too, so I haven't yet done much and a lot of people my age are in the same boat.

But I heard another one that really brought my piss to a boil. This one other asshole said that people like Stalin and other communists represent true atheists. Yeah dipshit. I guess they never would've listened to geniuses like Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Richard Dawkins. Tell that to the ruthless dictators that seem to be the only kind of leaders the majority of the Muslim world.

Bottom line, in my community (white middle class American liberals) you can't criticize a religion without being labeled a racist bigot by your peers. And if you're an outside

... keep reading on reddit ➑

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πŸ‘€︎ u/hughsocash45
πŸ“…︎ Jun 23 2017
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Humanists UK Petition: oppose discrimination, but don’t ban criticism of religion humanism.org.uk/what-you-…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/republicn
πŸ“…︎ Jul 04 2019
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Cuomo brushes off criticism of New York abortion law: 'I'm not here to legislate religion' foxnews.com/politics/cuom…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Instaconfused27
πŸ“…︎ Jan 31 2019
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Islamophobia is a dangerous term, as it can be used to censor anyone that has actual criticism towards Islam, like the violence it promotes or the fact that it condones child fucking. Atheist arent discriminating against the people, they are criticizing the religion.

Christopher Hitchens warned about 'islamophobia', and how it would be used to silence criticism of the religion, and years later, here we are. For example, this mass shooting at Christchurch is awful, and no innocent persons should be killed, but that doesnt suddenly mean that we stop criticizing Islam, which is what a lot of media outlets and countries are trying to do; use this shooting to stop criticism of Islam.

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πŸ‘€︎ u/Prolificvisions
πŸ“…︎ Mar 19 2019
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China Protests U.S. Criticism of Its Policies on Religion breitbart.com/asia/2019/0…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/HowardJDuck
πŸ“…︎ Mar 11 2019
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Professor of Religion and Clinical Psychologist James W. Jones: Growing criticism by atheists of the New Atheism movement blog.oup.com/2016/03/grow…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/chorusofhorus
πŸ“…︎ Aug 01 2017
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Islam, like any other religion, must be fair game for criticism | NSS secularism.org.uk/opinion…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Commentariat1
πŸ“…︎ Aug 22 2019
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No criticism allowed to the religion of permanent offence. twitter.com/patcondell/st…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/typtyphus
πŸ“…︎ Jun 21 2013
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Watchtower applies critical thinking to other religions to expose their flaws. Yet discourage going to college because you might find the formula of critical thinking and apply it on them.
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Thewokeprogrammer
πŸ“…︎ Nov 06 2019
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Are a lot of fellow intp's also atheists? I think we have a universal "quest for truth" which leads us to be more critical and questioning of religion. Are any of you guys theists? If so why?

Basically the title. I was raised as a Christian but during my late teenage years (currently 21), questioned if I really believed any ot it. I cant logically explain it and have no reason to believe a god exists, there has not been sufficient evidence to warrant that claim. My mother is a firm believer and she is baffled by the fact that I dont believe in god and doesnt really question her own beliefs. Is this a common thing among us?

Edit: wow there were way more responses than I was expecting with many different ones. It seems like many of us are agnostic, which I definitely agree with, I wasn't claiming to know for a fact that no God or Gods exist and honestly I'm not sure if its something we can know. Thanks for everyone's different points of view and for all being respectful with each other

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πŸ‘€︎ u/TheGreatMuffino
πŸ“…︎ Dec 14 2019
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Stepping out of Mormonism is like putting glasses on your brain. The clear thinking leads you to critically evaluate more than just religion. Your politics are scrutinized, relationships, personal excuses, historical "facts" , patriotic excess.

Everything gets to be critically evaluated once you see how easily our minds are manipulated into believing the unbelievable and defending the indefensible. I am regularly amazed by true believers utter incapacity to see even the slightest fallaciousness in their belief system as they confidently explain the sad plight of the exmo's deceived status. It's blows my mind when I encounter this. Then I think, "Oh My God, is it true, am I wrong?" I mean now I know how easy it is to be totally wrong about something important and not be able to see it - right? Then I'll do a quick inventory of the facts and conclude that I'm okay this time around, unless God is a galactic asshole who dicks around with mankind because he is bored (probably no). One thing that gives me hope is the fact that Im asking myself if I might be wrong. Definitely not a strong suit of true believers. This has led me down similar paths. "Is my politics wrong? Is/was my country wrong? Is this historical viewpoint valid, Am I a racist? Am I a sexist? Am I really as good a husband/father as I think I am. Is my wife right? Discovering I was so god damned wrong for so long has really woken me up and humbled me for that matter. And yes, I've discovered I've been wrong in some of these other areas too.

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πŸ‘€︎ u/secretnotsacred
πŸ“…︎ Dec 23 2019
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Criticizing the Islamic faith as a toxic religion is not Islamophobic, it is factually sound

74 percent of all deaths by terrorism are due to Islamic fundamentalism*

Sharia Law is a hateful, patriarchal mess that ruins women's lives

Political leaders throughout the Middle East exploit the religion for power gain and corruption.

It is a broken belief system, like every other religion is, and should be done away with, like every other religion should. It is by the numbers deadlier than any other mainstream religion, and it should be at the top of the list for having the belief system relegated to obsolescence. Harming, discriminating, or profiling people on the grounds of them being Islamic is never right, but making criticism of the religion off the table is ludicrous. It is broken, outdated, and toxic, and I don't have to and will not sugarcoat that for anyone. My great grandmother was an Islamic refugee as well, who fled Pakistan due to religious turmoil and political turmoil.

*I had to edit that line because I misread my source. I initially said "74% of terrorist attacks...", which is inaccurate.

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πŸ‘€︎ u/AppropriateDingo
πŸ“…︎ Nov 30 2019
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'I'll have to do better next time,' Trump attorney says after Republican criticism of impeachment opening usatoday.com/story/news/p…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/seeasea
πŸ“…︎ Feb 10 2021
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Idaho representatives criticize universities diversity programs. All of the representatives named in the article, who list their religion in their bios, are mormon. idahopress.com/news/state…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/UPY_77
πŸ“…︎ Jul 12 2019
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List of the malicious methods religions shut down critical thinking

I was raised in a Catholic family and we were very excited that after the fall of Communism we were free to convene and practice our faith. After the honeymoon years some people quicker others slower realized that we got from one authoritarian system to the other and a lot of us left the faith for freedom.

It took me many years to leave it though, and I realized there were (un)conscious methods to shut down my critical thinking.

So for "just fun" I would like to assemble a list of these methods. These are the ones I know from the top of my head:

  • demonizing and patronizing atheists and members of other religions: if you hate them already you won't learn how normal they are
  • punishing asking questions as being "dumb" or "destructive": my smart friend was surprised in faith class that she couldn't ask questions; that wasn't an issue in school though
  • instructing you to get rid of friends who are non believers: the master of this technique is Scientology
  • prepping you up to love the scriptures before you read anything: the good book, the miracle!

... And what else?

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πŸ‘€︎ u/dr_rodopszin
πŸ“…︎ Mar 21 2019
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I used to be a religious person until I read some materials about my religion in January. I’m looking for helpful items such as books, articles, YouTube clips or other items to help me with how to think more critically. Please, any help with my transition out of religion would be nice.

Kinda devastated but still hopeful that truth is my main desire/destination. I fully committed 15 years of my life to gob and I feel so silly for not asking certain questions. My goal is to start on a path that will help me use logic instead of feelings.

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πŸ‘€︎ u/Count-Basie
πŸ“…︎ Jul 14 2018
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Pope Francis, opposer of civil rights for LGBT people, equal rights of women, and the guy who said Charlie Hebdo victims brought it on themselves by criticizing religion, is apparently a nice guy because he hugged a transgendered man. washingtonblade.com/2015/…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/Meme_weaver
πŸ“…︎ Jan 30 2015
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Caitlin Johnstone ⏳: Credulous Atheist Believes Evidence-Free Establishment Russia Narrative "Credulous atheist @SamHarrisOrg doesn’t oppose all religions. He is critical of some of them, and he is a zealous bishop of others." medium.com/@caityjohnston…
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πŸ‘€︎ u/bout_that_action
πŸ“…︎ Jan 20 2019
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