Given that Aulë is associated with smiths and other builders that cut down trees and clear land for raw materials and locations to make stuff and his wife Yavanna cares for the flora and fauna that get uprooted. How did the discussion of Saruman's deforestation of Fanghorn Forest go in their household when they heard the news?
We just published the first part of our Silmarillion read-along! This part covers the first four chapters: Ainulindalë, Valaquenta, of the Beginning of Days, of Aulë and Yavanna.
I'll just share one highlight, which was a new revelation to me. (You know it's a great book if you can read it 20 times and still find interesting stuff.) It occurred to me on this readthrough that Tolkien seems to have left room to square his mythology with Darwinian evolution. Of course, the time covered in "Of the Beginning of Days" is vague but possibly eons, plenty of time for nature to progress before the elves show up. But beyond that there's also a reference to Ulmo being the "most deeply ... instructed by Ilúvatar in music." And since we just got done seeing a creation myth based on music, could this be a reference to life beginning in the sea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's a fun connection.
Anyway, hope you'll join us on our read-along!
Here's the video of the episode
Here's the apple podcasts link
Here's the Discord server. We take questions and comments before each episode, and we'll do that both there and here in this subreddit.
I am rereading the silmarillion and a question has arisen. Is there a reason why all of Aulë's disciples turn bad? (Sauron, saruman, some thoughts from the noldor).
Thanks for your support
In the Silmarillion, "Of Aulë and Yavanna": Aulë says, after Eru asks him what he has been doing making dwarves: "and the child of little understanding that makes a play of the deeds of his father may do so without thought of mockery, but because he is the son of his father."
So basically he is making a pretty relatable reference here: he says he is like a little boy who finds his dad's briefcase and is going to work. The problem is, at the time that this conversation happened...there were no fathers or children yet on the earth. It specifically said this happened before the children awoke. Aulë would have never had a chance to observe children imitating their fathers. This conversation could not have literally happened in any way we understand.
But lets go back to the beginning of the chapter: "It is told that in their beginning the Dwarves were made by Aulë". Notice those first three words and how they are in the passive: "It is told"...by who? Who is telling us this story? Did Aulë tell this story to the Noldor in Aman? How did it even come up? Was he sitting around the forge with some of his greatest Noldor disciples and decide to tell them about his greatest mistake? Would the Noldor have known about the Dwarves before they left Aman? (there is no reference that they were aware). Does this story come from the Dwarves, told to the elves much later? At what point did the discussion get anthropomorphized and put into terms of a situation that would have been anachronistic, with Aulë knowing how a human child would want to imitate his father's job?
These might seem to be silly question, but the point is: the cosmology that people assume to be Tolkien's is actually a cosmology that Tolkien is authoring through his characters, and as Tolkien has explicitly pointed out, the characters in his books, even the wise ones, often have a lack of knowledge. I think the published Silmarillion makes it clear that there is a lack of knowledge by its own in-universe authors, and that the information in it was compiled at different times, with different viewpoints.
I’m rereading the silmarillion and in the valaquinta it says Ossë was restrained by Uinen “at the prayer of Aulë.” Is there any more info about this? It seems strange to me that it was Aulë and not Ulmo or even Manwë who got Uinen to restrain Ossë. Any thoughts?
Per last month's poll, the Character of the Month for August 2021 is Aulë or Mahal, creator of the Dwarves and the smith of the Valar.
The theme for next month will be: The Second Age. Please choose between
I get that Aule wasn't supposed to create life, but he was still able to. And supposedly there was something to do with souls to complicate things, but if anything I'd think that orcs not having souls would actually fit better. Having the orcs be direct creations of Morgoth but lacking souls because he couldn't actually make those would seem to solve all the issues with their origin and nature.
I noticed a pattern in the three stages of lighting Arda.
Aulë makes the Lamps, two crafted objects. Melkor destroys them.
Yavanna (with Nienna) creates the Trees, living natural things. Melkor destroys those too.
Yavanna causes the last rose and fruit to be born from the dead Trees. Aulë builds ships to sail them through the sky, creating the Sun and Moon. Melkor tries and fails to destroy them.
The harmonious blend of nature and technology creates the lights that ultimately survive when one alone fails. Similarly, the most beautiful and prized jewels, the Silmarils, are the result of a master craftsman creating the most indestructible substance to preserve the most sublime light of the Trees.
We know that Tolkien had problems with mass industrialization causing natural destruction. But here we have technology that preserves nature to create the most beautiful things on earth. It may be an unintentional allegory, but I wonder if it was a subtle petition that that's where he wanted us to go with industrial progress. If reckless people are going to destroy nature, we might as well use our skills to preserve it.
I refer to this piece.
Aulë gazes down at the dwarves he created with a sorrowful expression, his mouth turned into a sad curve. There might even be tears standing in his eyes. He holds a hammer above his head, ready to bring it down in a blow upon the small creatures gathered about his feet. The dwarf fathers are cringing away from the blow, raising hands in desperate entreaty, and trying to shield themselves. The scene is framed in an underground cavern of sorts, with glistening, damp-looking stone walls and the sinuous, flowing shapes of stalactites and stalagmites and other limestone-like formations.
I love the expression on the god's face, and the real expressions of terror, supplication, and desperation in the poses of the dwarves. I think there is something a little missing in the physicality of Aulë - he doesn't look as poised and 'mid-action' as the dwarves - but this is perhaps deliberate as he is not raising the hammer fully willingly. For me, the whole moment calls to mind Abraham and the binding of Isaac.
Aside from the lack of motion and action in Aulë's pose, the thing I cannot get passed here is his trousers. It is just difficult for me to see his garb as anything but anachronistic. It looks like a western frontiersman's clothing to me and just seems so... unexpected for the dress of one of the Valar. I guess I am just conditioned to expect something more akin to the dress of Hephaestus.
Has anyone had this hang up?
Or does anyone view the pants/trousers/jeans through a different lens?
Sauron was a Maia of Aulë, and a Maia is less powerful than a Vala. With this in mind, do you think it would be possible for Aulë to destroy the One Ring if he wanted to WITHOUT dropping it into Mount Doom? I would say yes, but I'd like to know what you think.
To clarify, Saruman and Sauron (Curumo and Marion) were both Maia and skilled craftsmen under Aulë and so probably knew each other in the timeless halls.
Aulë, who was similar to Melkor in crafts and want to create, and only different with his love for Eru, lost Sauron to Melkor (just like how Ossë was swayed by Melkor and forever changed to be quite turbulent).
So is it possible that Saruman was also swayed by Melkor at some point during the beginning of time, being a craftsmen skilled like Sauron and possibly predisposed to wanting his own creation and power? Could this possibly be why Saruman was the one to betray the White Council and the West, having been swayed by Melkor previously and forever darkened by his words?
This also brings into question whether Eru or Manwë knew Saruman was swayed like this and still sent him East as an Istari, but that’s another question about Eru’s foreknowledge.
So, was Saruman already swayed beforehand and only needed Sauron’s influence later to fully convert?
I was doing some reading on the Rings of Power and how they were forged when I suddenly noticed a pattern beginning to emerge. Nearly every character involved in the shaping of the history of Arda were, in some form or another, associated with the Vala Aulë. It is through this association that I feel Aulë may just be the most influential character in Tolkien’s Legendarium. For example . . .
- Melkor: In a lot of ways, the original Dark Lord was strikingly similar to Aulë. Both had an affinity of crafting/creating, both were incredibly knowledgeable, and both desperately craved attention & praise for their so-called accomplishments. Yet unlike Melkor, Aulë remained loyal to the will of Illuvatar and sought to fulfill the original aim of the Music of the Ainur, while Melkor wished to control and subvert all things, and would try to twist or destroy others’ creations out of jealousy. IMO, Aulë kind of serves as the antithesis of Melkor. Aulë would also be one of the few Valar to hesitantly attack Melkor out of fear that his creation, Arda, would be heavily damaged or destroyed. However, he relented and participated in many skirmishes with Melkor particularly the War of Wrath by crafting both the weapons of the Elves as well as the chain, Angainor, that binds Melkor in the Timeless Void until the Dagor Dagorath.
- Sauron: Before he fell under the sway of Melkor, Sauron was a Maia of Aulë and assisted him in the physical shaping of Arda. Even after he was ensnared by Melkor, his love for order, planning, and coordination were in some ways influenced by Aulë's love of craftsmanship. After Melkor was defeated in the War of Wrath, Sauron used the skills of his former master to mobilize his army as well as bend those to his will through the Rings of Power throughout the Second & Third Ages.
- The Ñoldor Elves: The Ñoldor are accounted as the greatest of the Elves in both lore and smithcraft. Their name means those with knowledge in Quenya, and they had a close relationship with Aulë where they were also called the Aulendur or Servants of Aulë. Their deeds, especially those of Finwë, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Finarfin, Fingon, Turgon, Glofindel, Eärendil, Celebrimbor, Gil-galad, Galadriel, and Elrond, would shape or take part in some of the most important events in the history of Arda.
- Fëanor: Considered the greatest smith in the history of Arda, Fëanor was the Ñoldor pupil of Aulë and creator of one of the most important artifacts in the l
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Given that Aulë is associated with smiths and other builders that cut down trees and clear land for raw materials and locations to make stuff and his wife Yavanna cares for the flora and fauna that get uprooted. How did the discussion of Saruman's deforestation of Fanghorn Forest go in their household when they heard the news?
