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Hello all, I can't believe I managed to compress that last chapter in at under 40k characters. I know I said more-frequent posts, shorter, but that one started out at around 32k and ballooned a bit. Anyways, we're back on schedule now.

Alien-Nation: Chapter 79: Apostasy

People assumed Vaughn was a psychopath, who struggled with concepts of good and evil. That wasn’t quite true. What he was about to do was bad, monstrous, wrong. He could see the words in print, their dictionary definitions flashing up at him. Wrong. Monstrous. Evil. The silent judgment of unseen masses. Vaughn could see the way some might react if they knew what he was about to do, and he steadied himself by slowly brushing his thumb over the detonator button.

Those people were wrong, and he quietly delighted in that knowledge.

Vaughn knew good from bad.

He just didn’t care.

What he did care about was effectiveness. Elias had taught him that there was strength in virtue; namely, patience. Vaughn was no impulsive, undisciplined hedonist. As pleasant as it would be to make certain people recoil in horror upon learning of his deeds- past, future, and even the soon-to-be-present, there was nothing to be gained from it. Chasing effectiveness brought satisfaction. The world had a lot of problems that were solvable with straightforward methods, but people typically lacked the guts, cold discipline, and willingness to put aside any squeamish things like ‘emotions’ to actually follow through.

Elias had shown him the virtue of patience, and in prizing what was effective over what was all but guaranteed, but ultimately self-destructive. Now, let me show my gratitude by putting that in practice.

Detonators were harder to procure than bombs, and they weren’t short of explosive material. There was now enough stockpiled in Camp Death to flatten most of the woods, even after trading some of it away for somewhat exotic ammunition. But still he held onto his delicately, giving the trigger another delicate touch.

Sure, it wasn’t as directly lethal as a knife, but it still made Vaughn smile.

Oh the wicked webs we weave.

Vaughn raised the fli

Lately ahmadi apologists like u/SomePlaceSnowy and u/Qalam-e-Ahmad have been ridiculing sunni Islam in various posts, e.g. this reddit post here

https://www.reddit.com/r/islam_ahmadiyya/comments/pjc296/question_for_exahmadis_who_became_sunnishia/

And this one

https://www.reddit.com/r/ahmadiyya/comments/s4tdq0/lol_the_same_sunni_islam_which_believes/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

The point that is always raised is that these Sunnis believe that punishment for apostasy is death and we Ahmadis are so much nicer than them and this is usually followed by a LOL. I quote a portion of one of the above posts.

"All 4 schools of fiqh in Sunni Islam and the majority of Shias say it. How can you accept such an un-islamic belief?"

Unbeknownst to these posters, the promised Messiah as well as the first khalifa both are on record to have the exact same sunni position that apostates must be killed.

Here I reproduce the writings of both:

The Promised Messiah writes the following in his letter to Abdul Hakim, whom he had declared an apostate earlier because they disagreed on the interpretation of a verse of Quran (Circa. March 1906, published in Zikrul Hakim 4, page 324, available as pdf on web)

"...And then God addresses to the Prophet (SA) "Tell them If you love God, then you must obey me", meaning, to tell them that if you love God then you should follow me so God might also love you. Now it is obvious that christians do not follow the Prophet (of Islam), rather they call him names, So by your principle it must be that enemies of the prophet are also guaranteed salvation. In addition to the above (argument), God says that "Apostasy is punishable by death" but according to you, being an apostate does not deprive one of salvation. In conclusion, your condition (of faith) is extremely perilous. Not sure what it will lead to ....."

The First Khalifa is recorded to have threatened the Anjuman folks in the following words (Tarikh-e-ahmadiyyat 3, page 401)

"... you have taken pledges at my hand. You should not take the name of khilafat. I have been made a khalifa by Allah and now I cannot be removed by your saying so, and neither does anyone have the power to remove me. If you will press harder, then remember that I have such Khalid-bin-Walids who will punish you like apostates are punished..."

So the only question that needed to be answered is, how apostates were to be punished by Khalid Bin Walid?

This question is answered in History of Al-Tabar

Like yeah bitch the only reason you aren't murdering closeted apostates is that you don't know to. You don't fucking know what someone's beliefs are unless they say. You don't get points for that you useless fucking muppets. They refuse to even acknowledge that life is tremendously difficult for apostates because they are still beholden to Islamic Sharia law, or that "leaving" is not an option for most people. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge the disgusting predatory nature of rampant ideological repression within the Islamic society. Fucking clownery, all of it.

I had earlier prepared a post stating that apostasy carried the death sentence as per promised Messiah and the first Khalifa. The reference provided for the statement of promised Messiah was from a book called Zikrul Hakim volume 4, published in 1906 which contained an exchange of letters of the promised Messiah and Dr. Abdul Hakim.

Apologists have called the book to be an unreliable reference as they claim that it was written by an opponent of the promised Messiah and hence that letter in which the apostasy punishment for death was mentioned is most likely a forgery hence there is no need to justify it. I understand this is a typical strategy to discredit evidence.

I just wanted to bring to the attention of the readers that the book in question was most likely widely circulated and people were asking the promised Messiah about his various stances in these letters which felt unusual and harsh.

A year after the publication of Zikrul Hakim, the promised Messiah wrote in 1907 in Haqiqatul Wahi, on page 152 (urdu), the following:

"....Now I shall address some of the misgivings which have been expressed to me by some seekers of truth for reply. Most of these misgivings are those that ‘Abdul-Hakim Khan, Assistant Surgeon, Patiala, has, either through writing or speech, planted in the hearts of people, and has thus set a seal on his apostasy that will, perhaps, last until the end of his days."

Then he continues to reply to various questions mentioning Abdul Hakim by name many times and discusses the contents of this book.

This is direct confirmation that private communication between the two parties had been made public and people were discussing it. Nowhere in Haqiqatul Wahi did the promised Messiah claim that the private communication was a forgery.

Let's see his actual view. SCANS Mujood

The people response for Muslim's apostasy are Maulvis

When someone asks the Maulvis a question they( jut put meaning quickly) put a fatwa of wajibul qatl on them, he has become kafir, he has left the faith kill him. HE DISAGREES WITH THIS APPROACH.

https://preview.redd.it/2lkw5yvoy6c81.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=3316c9ed36cf696b0a777afda1cf72cd33cf885e

Also refer to my previous post as well.

Source is Malfuzat Volume 2 page 709

First of all ,there is no such thing in any quranic verses , eventough the quran said a lot of things about apostasy it never said anything that commands or allows to punish apostates ,

punishment for apostasy is the most ridicolous thing i ever heard ,the quran clearly said that 'la ikraaha fiddiyn'(there is no compulsion in religion) ,no matter how strong anyone want to claim a hadith is ,its still a hadidth ,a collaction of words that was only made into books hundred of years after the prophet era ,all the narration is like "i heard this words from this guy ,and this guy heard that from this other guy and this other guy heard from.....(×9).." ,u cant compare a man made book to a divine scripture guaranteed by god himself

there are verses in the quran that are meant to be general and should be treated as general commandments like "there is no compulsion in religion" ,but there are also verses that are only meant to be applied for specific times like "kill the unbelievers" .

a lot of unwise clerics like to push this notion becouse since the early time of muslim empires they were all theoratic and keeping their folks to not go anywhere was neccecary political wise

even assuming that such law did take place in the early muslim era ,its should be applied for that specific times in the past , you cant just pick a law from thousands of years ago and apply it without any consideration of the circumstances ,Judaic and islamic law shouldnt be applied without looking at the contexts for their times .the torah did order to kill apostates but its not applied in modern judaism is it ?

The mosque my dad (I went cuz my dad still thinks I’m Muslim)) goes to talked about it now suddenly everyone is

First of all Ruwen is an idiot thinking he his smart, the worst character trait to give an MC. He follows along blindly when he should question and questions when he should follow. Trusted friend tells you to run from evil mage trying you and you decide to fucking stand still and get killed?

The hand (or whatever they're called) approaches you to help but instead of them clarifying things quickly to get a move on they just ramble on and on letting the enemies have a chance to attack you again.

Does things like this keep happening in the story or is it a case of new writer finding their feet? I cant read books where the average intelligence is lower than a pineapples.

I'm also annoyed because i was enjoying the story that was being set up for it to completely crash and be hurdur here is a protector to remove any chance for the main character to drive the story forward.

Not trying to be rude but too many stories dumb people down and i'm just tired of it. If any future writers read this, then make sure your characters ask the questions that need to be asked. And makes sure people that are supposed to be competent make the most logical decisions. You dont approach someone who doesnt know you and demand they follow you without giving them your identity first. "Ruwen come with me" and showing her hand would have been enough to tip off ruwen that yes he should indeed trust and follow this person as Uru told him minutes ago she was sending help.

Edit: Okay i just kept reading and he has an assassin after him, he gets away with the help of Ky and he goes and has a shower while Ky is still fighting??? Like dude, wtf. At least wait in nervous silence for something to happen. What are you gonna do if the assassin comes after you mid shower? Throw soap at him?

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I believe positives changes will happen over the next decade, but it seems that others beg to differ.

Heya! While I'm getting ready for TNW, I'm also brushing up on the lore and events leading up to this moment. But there is one question that keeps bugging my mind, and I can't seem to find the answer (Granted, my Google skills aren't the best). Where has Ballas been all this time?

We first meet him in the Apostasy Prologue, but do we have any information about his whereabouts after The Old War/The Collapse?

Any information, hopefully without TNW spoilers, is much appreciated. Sho-lah!

Has anyone’s sheikh (if you’re still obligated to attend) discussed apostasy?

I've seen a lot of Ex-Muslims and Christians online claiming that Iranians are leaving Shia Islam and becoming Christian, Zoroastrians and Atheists.

Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) believe in Death for Apostates? No. SCANS MUJOOD!

صرف تلواروں سے خونریزی کرنا اور جبر سے کلمہ پڑھانا کوئی ہنر کی بات نہیں بلکہ یہ فعل تو ڈاکہ مارنے والوں کے فعلوں سے مشابہ ہے۔ یہ کیسی جہالت ہے جو بعض نادان مسلمانوں کے دِلوں میں متمکن ہے کہ وہ اس بات پر فخر کرتے ہیں کہ اُن کا مسیح موعود اور مہدی معہود جبراً لوگوں کو مسلمان کرے گا اور تلوار سے دین کو پھیلائے گا۔ یہ لوگ نہیں سوچتے کہ جبر سے کوئی عقیدہ دِل میں داخل نہیں ہوسکتا بلکہ ہر ایک شخص جو ایسے ظالموں کے قابو آجائے اپنے دل میں ان کو نہایت بدانسان سمجھتا ہے گو جان چھڑانے کے لئے اس وقت ہاں میں ہاں ملاوے۔ (روحانی خزائن، جلد ۱۵، تریاق القلوب، صفحہ ۲۴۵ تا ۲۴۶)

To cause bloodshed through the use of swords and to force someone to say the Kalima Shahadah is not an accomplishment. Rather this is akin to the action of bandits. What kind of ignorance is this that is found within the hearts of certain Muslims, that they are proud of the idea that their Messiah and Mahdi will force people to become Muslims and spread the faith through force? These people do not think that force cannot cause any belief to enter the hearts. Rather, every person that falls prey to such unjust individuals regards them as terribly vicious people in his heart, even though he may outwardly agree with them to save himself. (Ruhani Khazain, vol. 15, Taryaaq-ul-Quloob, pg. 245-246)

https://preview.redd.it/jupqo01527c81.png?width=647&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b2d9f50a249a0bbac88d0876b6ac7cfe6a6f684

https://preview.redd.it/7dzv4vkb27c81.png?width=457&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e14e77d8e876d8263ed7b3d25104ec5a1483702

He mentioned how thousands of Muslims had become Christians in India during his time (R.K, vol. 13, pg. 393). He once debated a former Muslim who had become a Christian priest, Abdullah Atham (R.K, vol. 14, pg. 160). Chiragh Din, one of his followers, left Islam and became a pseudo-Christian, claiming prophethood for himself (R.K, vol. 22, pg. 127). He wrote extensively about these and others who had left Islam, yet never stated that they should be killed according to the Islamic Shariah.

An English article titled Effect of Apostacy from Islamism in British India, was once published anonymously in the Review of Religions, an English magazine launched by the Promised Messiah (ra). This article was published in May 1908 – during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah (as). In this article, a lengthy exposition is given about the concept of apostasy in Islam. The author refut

What does Nietzsche mean by it? I can't seem to comprehend this idea, can any one explain?

Both remove the locus of control from an external God and place the locus of control on the individual... I gave myself the second anointing when I left the faith, I desire all to receive. In the name of you are all gods amen.

Description According to IMDB: A faithful Jehovah's Witness is forced to shun her own sister because of a religious transgression. As the separation draws out, she starts to question the meaning of God's love.

It's supposed to be based on real life experiences by writer / director Daniel Kokotajlo. As with many movies / books about the realities of religion, it exposes how families can be torn apart and the believers can be hurt by the religion that is supposed to "save" them.

Salam. I’m a new Muslim and I have a few questions about the faith.

1: is formal apostasy (a Muslim rejecting Islam willingly) forgivable if he repents? What are some sources for this if you are willing?

2: do different madhabs view it as apostasy to practice another madhab?

Thank you for reading and answering. I’m trying to have an easier experience as a new Muslim and I appreciate all the help I can get.

I am curious what is the post-secondary educational background of r/ex Mormon redditors.

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This is a serious question and i am gnuinely confused about this topic, can someone please clarify? Jazakallah

If you work in a diverse environment or you live in a multicultural neighbourhood, chances are you will already know people who identify as apostates, even though, like so many, you might not be familiar with this term. Apostates are people who leave high control religious environments for a life free of dogma and superstition, often embracing the essence of humanism and rejecting religious faith. Although for many of us, this journey to freedom of thought is a straightforward, liberating experience, for many it is a journey of loneliness, isolation, homelessness and poverty. Many apostates are shunned by their entire family and friends, lose their homes and jobs, and they are often forced into a life of shameful silence where they feel there is nowhere to turn for help. Physical abuse, often referred to as honour violence, can follow.

Would you recognise the signs of someone who is struggling to cope with the harmful effects of apostasy? Do you know how best to support someone who is leaving their faith? If you would like to learn more about how you or your organisation can do more to meet the needs of this growing but invisible community, you might be interested in attending our next online two-hour Apostasy Awareness Safeguarding Training on January 12th 2022. This course also runs throughout the year so

This training has been developed to inform frontline services on apostasy and support them with best practice. We have trained many organisations, including the Metropolitan Police. Police, social services, NHS workers, teachers, university staff and charities are encouraged to take this course, which qualifies for Continuous Professional Development and Equality, Diversity and Inclusion. You can book your place for 12th January 2022 here https://humanists.uk/civicrm/event/register/?id=920&reset=1

If you are an individual, you can attend this training for a minimal £10.00 per person to cover costs, or if you are from a larger organisation, we can deliver our Apostasy Safeguarding Training directly to you and your colleagues for up to 25 delegates for £250.00. This would include meeting and planning prior to the event to tailor the training to meet the specific requirements of your organisation.

If you would like to know more about our bespoke Apostasy Awareness Safeguarding course or anything el

This is my first post here, I am a 16M PIMO (although I was never baptised, my entire family and basically all of my extended family are very PIMI and immersed in the religion, I am a 4th generation born-in). Basically, my parents are starting to suspect that I am not completely "in" the religion anymore (my father is an elder), and they have in fact asked me questions like "do you actually believe in God?", and "do you believe that the GB are God's chosen spokespersons?", etc. point-blank, to which I of course responded "yes, I do".

So my question is, if I was to tell my parents that I am no longer a believer, and state my reasons as to why (which would obviously make me an apostate in their eyes), would I be shunned / avoided by even my family when I leave the home?

Thanks again :)

Has anyone here struggled with the fear of apostasy? When I see friends, prominent leaders, loved ones, and people that I've looked up to walk away from the faith, it begs the question: could this very well happen to me?

I understand that we, as outside observers, do not know if they are taking on the role of a Prodigal child who will imminently return or if they were simply professing Christians for a given season. This unfortunately doesn't detract from the imminent doubts that begin to rise at their departure.

I also know that most of the Reformed community firmly holds to the "P" of TULIP, that is the perseverance of the saints. It feels very hard to at times to reconcile this doctrine to the ever-present reality of those appearing to be genuine believers completely abandoning the faith; the excruciating amount of contention surrounding this doctrine within the broad scope of Evangelical Christianity is no less helpful to the matter as well.

It's something that constantly eats at me. My faith feels so frail so much of the time amidst suffering and affliction that final perseverance seems more like a pipe dream than anything. Curious to see if anyone else wrestles with this as well. Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to read/respond to this. I really do appreciate it. God bless, brothers and sisters.

"In the case of apostasy, the Egyptian judiciary has maintained the principle that the rules of apostasy constitute rules of public policy. Not attaching any legal consequences to apostasy, therefore, is tantamount to violating Egyptian public policy."

Do you believe faith is a personal matter or should the state have a say in it? Do you believe it warrants any form of punishment? And if you do, would you also agree for Europe, Asia, America etc. to make converting to Islam from Christianity a crime, since that also constitutes apostasy

>Apostates rarely sing the same tune. In NY I witnessed many apostate protests. Each one had their own sign stating their complaint or peeve against the organization.   No two alike.  As I watched them march with their sad signs and miserable faces, I asked myself, ‘If you left the organization because it’s wrong and you found something better, why are you here? Why are you not out there happily living your life in harmony with God’s standards and with smiles on your faces helping others to learn the truth?’  They can’t.
>
>What I have discovered is, what apostates say is their reason for leaving the organization, is typically not the real reason.   It is usually that some time ago they began going against scriptural advice about association, education, entertainment, treatment of disfellowshipped ones or the like and then instead of correcting themselves, they grabbed a hold of a lame critical rationale to make them feel free and justified in their behavior. The point is, keeping spiritually strong and obedient is a protection.

Both remove the locus of control from an external God and place the locus of control on the individual... I gave myself the second anointing when I left the faith, I desire all to receive. In the name of you are all gods amen.