Hello r/dota2, hope you're having fun with Arena!
We are the dev team behind OpenAI Five and putting on both Finals and Arena where you can currently play with or against OpenAI Five.
We will be answering questions between 2:30 and 4:00pm PDT today. We know this is a short time frame and we'd love to make it longer, but sadly we still have a lot of work to do with Arena!
Our entire team will be answering questions: christyopenai (Christy Dennison), dfarhi (David Farhi), FakePsyho (Przemyslaw Debiak), fjwolski (Filip Wolski), hponde (Henrique Ponde), jonathanraiman (Jonathan Raiman), mpetrov (Michal Petrov), nadipity (Brooke Chan), suchenzang (Susan Zhang). We also have Jie Tang, Greg Brockman, Jakub Pachocki, and Szymon Sidor.
PS: We're currently streaming Arena games on our Twitch channel. We do have some very special things planned over the weekend. Feel free to join us on our Discord.
Edit - We're officially done answering questions for now, but since we're a decently sized team with intermittent schedules over this hectic week, you may see a handful of answers trickling in. Thanks to everyone for your enthusiasm and support of the project!
I understand the format is due to limitations, but I feel like we would have much more interesting fights if the bots took into account who they're up against and worked together more.
https://cdn.openai.com/dota-2.pdf
It's 66 pages long and very detailed.
In a few days OpenAI are having another crack at professional Dota2 in the form of OG. There doesn't seem to be any info yet as to what the match conditions might be (for example which heroes are included).
If the Five have an exploitable weakness they will not learn and react during the series of games. If they can apply statistics from millions of games they might be nearly unbeatable just from the drafting phase. So there's all sorts of interesting aspects to it.
Computers took Chess, Go, and Poker. Dota 2 is about all that is left.
I'm personally hopeful of the strongest possible AI performance that results in OG barely winning.
Team Human consists of Blitz, Capitalist, Fogged, Merlini, and Moonmeander; a collection of analysts, pro, and former pro players.
The game restrictions include a limited hero pool, no Divine Rapier or bottle purchases, no summons/illusions, no scanning, and five invulnerable couriers limited to only item delivery.
While this isn't the complete Dota experience by any means, it will be very interesting to see how the OpenAI learning model has interpreted the set of rules set forth. At the very least, we're sure to see some really weird stuff from the OpenAI team.
More information on the OpenAI team and the event can be found at https://blog.openai.com/openai-five-benchmark/
HeyGuys,
I thought I'd break down the inner workings of OpenAI Five after watching the games, so we don't spam the "long we have waited MrDestructoid" meme too much in chat and actually know how and why the bot does what it does.
Hope you like it !
https://medium.com/@evanthebouncy/understanding-openai-five-16f8d177a957
I can answer any questions in this thread, I don't work for OpenAI so I have no incentive to withhold any information.
--evan
Hello, we're excited about the OpenAI Five Benchmark match, so we are making Team Human and Team Robot flairs available this weekend:
| Team Human | OpenAI Five |
|---|---|
| Blitz | Overlord #1 |
| Cap | Overlord #2 |
| Fogged | Overlord #3 |
| Merlini | Overlord #4 |
| Moonmeander | Overlord #5 |
These flairs will disappear after this week, but don't worry about losing your existing rare flairs as we have cached everyone's current values and will be restoring them after the event.
As a reminder, the OpenAI match will be streamed on www.twitch.tv/openai tomorrow starting at 12:30 PT with the match kicking off at 1:15 PT. More information here
Please use this thread to discuss predictions or shit talk our new robot overlords.
^(also shoutout to the twitch streams and artists that I borrowed from to make these flairs. Please don't come after me)
A small group of humans is winning consistently against OpenAI Five. There seem to be a few reproducible strategies that keep beating the bot. Can someone describe what those strategies are for someone that hasn't played DoTA?
Link https://arena.openai.com/#/results
How to watch OpenAI Five Benchmark:
- OpenAI Benchmark will be livestreamed in English, Russian, and Chinese
- Stream starts 12:30p PT on Sunday Aug 5; main event at 1:15p PT
- Official stream (English): twitch.tv/openai
- Unofficial livetweeting: Twitter @gdb
OpenAI Five (128,000 preemptible CPU cores on GCP / 256 P100 GPUs on GCP)
vs
Team Human (MoonMeander, Fogged, Blitz, Merlini and Capitalist)
I usually blame my teammates for my losses. Even if I do not blame them in-game, I think to myself that I was not the weakest link in my team. After playing 3 games in coop' with OpenAI FOUR against OpenAI FIVE, I have realized that:
- OpenAI has perfectly simulated the pub experience,
- I am actually AWFUL at this game!
In my first game, I was playing as Slark, and ended up feeding like 0-15, and made my team lose the game hard! During laning phase, Witch Doctor would let me last hit, but whenever he notices that I would be missing one last hit, he would last hit that creep, I know he was right but it felt like stealing my last hits in pubs. At the end of the game, the OpenAI Witch Doctor said he would start playing Core and asked me to play support, buy wards and dust. In the meantime, opponent flamed me in all-chat with its 99% chance to win the game. My teammate answered with our 1% chance to win the game. Everyone had the same vision of the game, and I was the reason for our loss.
In my second game, I picked Sniper and ended 1-15 or so. Our SF was solo-pushing lanes, trying to "rat" some racks, while the opponents was at our doors. He forced the opponent Axe to teleport back to its base to defend against the rat-push.
In my third game, I picked my favorite hero, Riki, and ended 1-18 again. I had purposefully chosen a weak opponent team (Witch Doctor, Crystal Maiden, Earthshaker, Lion, and Slark). I was thinking that they would play some support build on Earthshaker, that Slark would be their physical damage dealer, and I knew Slark was one of the worst hero according to OpenAI, so all was good. Of course, their Lion one-shot me all the time ; their Slark was stacking essence shifts like crazy and destroying our buildings like crazy ; and I had a hard time getting vision on their team, because OpenAI plays with the fog of war like madness, constantly going in and out of the trees, or going up and down the stairs, walking and then blinking backwards for no other reason than to drive me mad, while waiting for some other event. A true nightmare!
Anyway, I cannot blame my teammates for our loss, it is all on me, and it is eye-opening.
OpenAI Five now allows teams to select five heroes each from a pool of 18 heroes. Lets assume there are no special rules, that is that each hero can only be picked once in each match, and that OpenAI Five does not always pick or ban the same heroes (which could reduce the number below dramatically). Since drafting order does not matter but which team (computer or human) plays which line-up does, the total number of possible match-ups are then 2*(18 choose 5) * (13 choose 5) = 22 054 032.
- 22 054 032 = possible combinations of heroes played in humans vs OpenAI Five.
The total number of possible match-ups in Dota 2 is however currently (115 choose 5)*(110 choose 5)*2 = 3.7568359e+16.
- 37 568 359 000 000 000 = possible combinations of heroes and teams when two teams play (about 37 quadrillion).
OpenAI Five is very interesting and impressive, and the team should be proud of what they have accomplished thus far. At the same time, part of what makes this game interesting is that there are more possible 5 vs 5 drafts than there are stars in the Milky Way.
In competitive play (as recorded by OpenDota), only 119 sets of 5v5 heroes have ever been repeated in the 56 325 games logged. In other words, 56 192 unique 5 vs 5 have been played in pro play. Only 12 have been played thrice or more. 2 have been played four times or more. Only one set of five versus five heroes have been played five times.* The last time two teams played a set of 5 vs 5 heroes which had been played before were in patch 7.06, when Venomancer, Storm Spirit, Sand King, Disruptor and Dark Seer were versus Nature's Prophet, Lina, Earthshaker, Anti-Mage, and Ancient Apparition (the teams were Happy Feet vs Mousesports in the qualifiers to Shenzhen Galaxy Battles).
When you queue up next time, you may very well be the first person in history to play a game with your hero in a game with the selected 5 vs 5 heroes.**
*These five games were all played in World Cyber Arena 2014 (patch 6.82) by the same ten players. The sides were: Lifestealer, Ogre Magi, Magnus, Skywrath Mage and Legion Commander - vs - Earthshaker, Death Prophet, Disruptor, Naga Siren, and Centaur Warrunner.
** And considering my games in Herald, hopefully so LOL.
