So, I was thinking about this a lot this morning:
Characters/Performers who the writers/series creatives personally fall in love with and want to make a focal point of a long running show with an already functional and well rounded core cast and fans reject that character and they go from being set up as new leads/focuses on the show to becoming background noise or written off within a relatively small number of episodes impacted.
This also happened on Entourage, way back when. They introduced the character of Dom, the Entourage Boys' rough around the edges friend from back home. He appears out of nowhere and dominates (no pun intended) the series for 2 episodes and then just goes away, like he was never there- comes back for one episode that attempts to redeem his character- literally called Redomption. I remember reading some articles suggesting or outright stating that producers had plans to bring him back for real, full time and make him a main cast member going forward, but fans HATED him and so they just didn't bring him back and kept him written out.
And apparently the same thing happened with Nellie Bertram. The producers wanted her to become the new lead of the series, but fans rejected her. She was still under contract for the next couple seasons and so they just found stuff for her to do but relegated her to the background.
So my question to you guys is:
- Given how well balanced many TV series' characters are, why do you think characters/performances get introduced that the creatives fall in love with that fans reject?
- How far into the productions do they realize a character isn't working? Is it after their initial episode airs and critics and online fan communities have a negative reaction? Is it after a few episodes? Is it that they have a limited run for that initial season's appearances with big plans for future seasons and the reaction from critics and/or fans changes the plan when they're breaking the story arcs for the next season and so they pivot before filming gets underway?
- There are characters on series we love to hate. They're designed to be unlikable and the 'villain' even on series that don't really have a hero/villain dynamic. Many of these characters, most of whom would be extremely unlikable in the real world, are fan favorites. For instance, on the Office: Angela Martin is beloved. I love Angela. She's judgmental, she's hypocritical, she's a zealot and she's manipulative and she's a boring person and she's weird a
Rewatching season 8, and right when you’re coming around to it, Nellie pops in. The Tallahassee arc does an okay job with her, but God is she unbelievably horrible from “Get the Girl” on out. She literally makes every other character worse. She makes Robert California into a massive pushover. She makes Andy in to a helpless little baby. She makes Jim and Dwight oddly empathetic. Angela hates her, yet she immediately docks Andy’s pay when Nellie asks her to. I just cannot believe that the same writers who wrote every other part of the show, wrote Season 8 Nellie. It’s on thing to write a character so the audience hates her, but this is just something else. The worst part. The absolute WORST part is that I actually like Nellie in season 9!! I think she fits in well. But god oh god what where they thinking in season 8? This has been beaten to death, I know. But everything I just astounds me how bad she is.
I'm watching the office for the first time, I'm currently about 2/3 through s8. Tbh idk if I should like her or cringe at her or like her. When we first see her in S7 E25/26 ”Search Committee”, she seems just as unimportant as everyoneelse that comes through (ie the guy played by Jim cary, the guy with the pb&j sandwich, guy with 3 step plan for profit increase, etc ) but later on when the team goes to talahase to brainstorm for the saber store she pops up again. Honestly I thought she was random and annoying I'll be it a bit funny but kinda cringe. But after watching the episode where Jim and Dwight have to move boxes and find out about her troubled past I kinda seem to like her now. Tho tbh while I like her for a bit honestly after Andy got fired I started to hate her again and go honestly she's cringe and while she does have some funny moments she seems wayy out of place in the context of the show.
Thoughts?
I mean I'm the new manager!!
"What is happening right now"
That is the jump the shark moment
Literally all Andy had to do was show up super early the next day and sit in his office. Just taking back his job the same way Nellie took it in the first place smh
Or maybe I just really like Catherine Tate.
https://reddit.com/link/h9ttb4/video/29pwd47cf6551/player
I had originally entitled this "Nellie appreciation post!" but that was auto-removed because usually appreciation posts are nothing. I’ve been tempted to post this for a while but I’ve never been brave enough before! People get very passionate against Nellie but I think that this is a bit unfair.
Nellie is not my ultimate favourite (that changes regularly, but is probably Michael overall), but I still think that Nellie is given a bad rap. As a comedy interviewee – “it’s fun to talk about the rejects,” as Jo Bennett put it – she was a successfully boggling person who added a bit of fun. When she reappeared in Florida, again, she was a convincing ‘fake it till you make it’ project leader and was ultimately able to get the team to create a feasible store, however short-lived the store was.
I suppose people only really started to have a problem with Nellie when she came to Scranton as a full-time character, which may be more to do with her booting Andy out then refusing to yield it back to him than to do with her personality. Had she stepped into Andy’s vacant swivel chair when he had abandoned Erin to go sailing, would we have been so outraged at “her one simple philosophy in business: if the seat is open, the job is open”? I don’t pretend she’s perfect; the stubbornness when Andy returned to claim back his role and her Tinkerbell method of rallying support was not great, and she did not handle the news of Andy’s ‘penile softiosis’ very well. But she did mean well with that incident, and she didn’t expect to it ultimately leading to Andy’s quitting and the rallying of David Wallace who told Sabre to… well, you know.
Overall, I think that her character did a great job of developing from an unqualified wannabe-leader, through to a decent friend (of Pam’s in particular), with her history with Henry the Stage Magician and desire for motherhood revealing itself along the way. Perhaps I’m biased because I know her from The Catherine Tate Show and Doctor Who, and as a Brit I relate – unsuitable as it was to announce in the office, I can completely appreciate that her British friends would have “told her if she moved to America, she'd be murdered”. I think in the short timeframe she was a part of The Office, she was well-established; not overshadowing the top people but more impactful that Dwight Jr. and Plop, though I concede that they had far fewer episodes.
My favourite Nellie moments are:
“Suki! Suki… IS HER NAME” – S7, Search Committee. My partner a
... keep reading on reddit ➡I was recently rewatching the entirety of the office and im on the notorious eighth season. I had some particularly bad memories of a couple of characters like Erin or Robert California, but I kind of ended up putting up with them. But god damn is Nellie Bertram the worst character on the show by far, I really dont know what about it but shes just such an obnoxious and unlikeable character. Funny I’m saying that in a show where someone like michael scott is super likeable despite being a complete idiot sometimes.
I know they’re both hated, but GOD. I just finished Season 8 and I was counting down the episodes until RC was gone. Knowing that Nellie is around until the end is making me consider not watching it.
They’re both just insufferable, and so painfully unfunny, it honestly upsets me. Robert California is just a total pretentious douchebag, and the fact that Nellie just came in and decided she was Regional Manager pisses me off. The fact that no one really stands up to her says a lot about their characters, and I felt like Andy by the end of it. I just wanted to punch a wall. Jo was a great character who challenged the cast a lot, and I was looking forward to more of her. Nellie being able to appoint herself as RM kind of destroyed the realism of the show, in that from that point on, any semblance of a realistic office structure was destroyed. There should be higher ups. There should be rules. Things like that can’t happen.
Previously, the inclusion of higher ups (Jan, David, Corporate, the other branches of DM) created a nice universe for the show to live in. There was structure there that the show played really nicely with, especially in relation to Michael, and how it often used that setting to drive a lot of the plot.
Of course, there is still one higher up. Robert. But he literally does not give a single fuck that Nellie walks in there. I get that he’s supposed to be reckless, but what is his job??? He literally hangs out in Scranton 24/7. DM is a small part of Sabre, and there are MANY branches. There’s no way he’s doing his job correctly, and the loss of professionalism makes him, Nellie, and a lot of the other characters into caricatures that exist outside of any realism.
edit: Season 9 is pretty good so far. Clark is good but Pete is pretty nothing. I think my main issue is that I would have really preferred to see old favorites fleshed out more, rather than introducing a character in the zero hour and dedicating a huge chunk of screen time towards them (mainly Nellie). I love what’s going on with Oscar and the Senator, I want more growth for Meredith and Phyllis and Toby!
tl;dr Fuck Nellie and Fuck RC. They ruin the Office and made at least Season 8 a painfully unwatchable wreck
Yes she is an annoying character and yes her face ain’t that great...but her body....gets me all the time...
Catherine Tate is a great improv comic and would have been able to fill the hole Michael left. I think she would have made a great manager.
Feel free to add other horrible characters. Like Toby.
After she stops traveling with Dr. Who, Donna takes a lackluster office job with Sabre in America to distance herself from her old life. She becomes super depressed because she’s no longer traveling through time and space in a magical box going on various adventures.
Dr. Who is Nellie's real “ex” and the real cause for her extreme hate and disgust for all magicians.
(Dr. Who Series 4 spoiler ahead) Nellie has a Benjamin box, the hilariously named box full of photos of her ex, Henry. However, we know Donna, from Dr. Who, had her memory wiped after becoming overwhelmed with the knowledge that came from becoming a human TARDIS.
When wiping Donna's mind, did Dr. Who somehow combine her painful memories of her ex-fiance, Lance Bennet, with the magical adventures she had with the Doctor, creating an amalgam that Nellie remembers simply as "Henry" (a magician)?
Did she move to Florida because she subconsciously knew something was off and needed to distance herself from her former life?
So I’m watching the show for the first time in my life and I just got to season 8. Anyone else despise Nellie Bertram? Like just so much. I’d rather rematch Scott’s Tot’s then watch another episode with her in it.
I love Catherine Tate and felt like she was a fun late addition to the cast. The later season really suffered from the lack of entertaining characters, but I really enjoyed the vibe she brought to The Office. The revolving door of bosses after Steve Carrel left really bogged down the cast, but I wish she could have been introduced earlier to really let Tate shine more. She could have have a Nard-dog level ascension into greatness. That being said, she still managed to make me laugh consistently. Robert California can burn is hell though.
The actress is great though and acts a lot like Michael but to me she didn't have the charm of some of the other characters through out the show, but I'm glad the character didn't replace Michael Scott, Michael was stupid at points but made up for it with his heart, and how fair he was sometimes, but she doesn't have that soft side. also she messed with the Nard-Dog and no one does that.
Does everyone hate her? I sure as hell do, and it's only like her third episode. I've never watched past Michael's last episode before, so this is all new to me.
Just can't stand her.
Donna Noble worked as a temp in an office before becoming the doctor's companion. Nellie works in an office as the special projects manager. Working in an office setting seems familiar to her. It's also why she needs anxiety medicine, b/c she has some memories of her travels and can't explain them.
Now that we've had half of a series with he no longer as manager I was wondering how everyone felt about her now.
I for one really hated her last series and though she was what contributed to it being my least favorite series so far but so far this series I have really enjoyed her.
"The tone here is getting quite hostile. I'd appreciate it if you take it out on the basketball court, OR the squash court or the Supreme Court "
Between her stupid accent, and the way she took Andy's job just makes me so angry. Definitely the worst character and Robert California is pretty bad.
