I know that in RP the letter <r> is usually an approximant, but I've read that after /θ/ it can be pronounced as /ɾ/ instead of /r/, so the word <three> would be /θɾiː/ instead of /θriː/. I was wondering how common that is.
I was watching some videos on a youtube channel (link at the end of the post) with a speaker of Irish English and noticed that the "t" sounds at the end of his words, like "that" or "it" came out as "θ̱". It looks like it's not a phoneme that exists in Irish Gaelic, so I'm assuming it evolved on its own within Irish English. Is that a common sound change for voiceless alveolar stops?
The only other place I've noticed that phoneme (with my super limited experience) is as an allophone of "r̥" in Icelandic which is a relationship that makes more sense to me. Any insight or directions to look for the answer would be appreciated!
The above mentioned channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtGoikgbxP4F3rgI9PldI9g/featured
S: ɸ ɬ
A: θ ɕ h
B: f s ʍ
C: ç ħ
D: ʃ x χ
E: ʜ
F: ʂ
(edit: removed ɧ)
should we do þis?
My first language only has the voiceless labiodental approximant sound and I can't really tell the difference between the two.
Sorry about the bad title. It should have been "can native English speakers differentiate between the voiceless labiodental fricative and the voiceless labiodental approximant?
I’ve been trying but I’m not sure if I’m doing it right
An old man had four sons.
Naśinsuźa poź ümk ma sün.
[ˈnaːð̠̥ɪnˌzuð̠ɐ poð̠ yŋk ma syn]
He wanted his sons to learn a very important lesson for life.
Ö leśin śu yaź ümźak hüsinsar locar lönun.
[ø ˈleːð̠̥ɪn ð̠̥u jað̠ ˈyːmð̠ɐk ˈxyːˌʒinzɐr ˈloːt͡ʃɐr ˈløːnʊn]
So he decided to send each of them for a quest.
Śöcla sipinaś ö toś ü kiźamet.
[ˈð̠̥øːt͡ʃlɐ ˈʃiːˌpinɐð̠̥ ø toð̠̥ y kɪˈð̠aːmɛt]
Notes:
- [ð̠̥] is a voiceless alveolar non-sibilant fricative; [ð̠] is, of course, its voiced counterpart.
- In case anyone thinks there are typos, primary stress lengthens vowels and secondary stress does not.
Edit: Corrected <ynźak> to <ümźak>.
Asking for a rather complex linguistics project
I've seen some languages that contains these phonemes and they contrast with their "actual" voiceless counterparts. Navajo for example.
I've come across several comments that describe the voiced alveolar fricative trill (r̝) as sounding like a simultaneous [r] and [ʒ] while its voiceless counterpart (r̝̊) is like a simultaneous [r̥] and [ʃ].
This make me wonder, is there a phoneme that sounds like a simultaneous [r] and [d͡ʐ]? What about a simultaneous [r̥] and [t͡ʂ]? Do these exist?
https://vocaroo.com/1hEkWRJ2dwIl
>The voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative is a type of consonantal sound used in some spoken languages. It is familiar to English speakers as the 'th' in think. Though rather rare as a phoneme in the world's inventory of languages, it is encountered in some of the most widespread and influential.
Thank you for listening!
First of all, thanks to u/Adam-P-D and u/Walking_in_Circle for their comments!
Today I tried to imitate their two versions (but maybe my two versions are not so different x)).
Anyway it was a very fun exercise!
Here the text:
>The voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative is a type of consonantal sound used in some spoken languages. It is familiar to English speakers as the 'th' in think.
It's just very hard for me to link these two sounds together. I know they are both voiced alveolars but I just can't seem to find common characteristics between them when I speak. I try to say /z/ quickly with small pauses between each repetition and try to transform it into /ɾ/ but it just doesn't happen. On the other hand, when I do the same thing with /d/ it works like magic.
How exactly do ʂ̠ and ʂ̻ differ from ʂ?
What exactly is the tongue doing for each of these phonemes?
Today I was looking around in PHOIBLE 2.0 and saw Indic languages have Palatal Affricates. Which surprised me since I considered them Palato-Alveolar. Is PHOIBLE 2.0 correct in this matter or incorrect. And while we are at it what are the differences between these 3 types of consonants (also add corresponding affricates)
Although the voiceless alveolar plosive can still be found between vowels in many English dialects, the way that the "t" in "whatever" is pronounced in most of Canada and the United States is that of the voiced alveolar flap.
Is it known when the plosive switched to a flap in these positions and at what point it became more common that using plosives in the United States and Canada?
Greetings! I am currently nerding out on the Kabardian language (east Circassian/Adyghe) of the North-West Caucasian family. The polysynthetic family is known for its only 2-3 vowel phonemes and up to 84 consonants (the extinct Ubykh), only rivaled by the Taa/!Xóõ of Botswana and Namibia.
The dialect described by the grammar I have has a few distinctions I have hard times with:
-
It dinstinguishes between Alveo-Palatal, Palato-Alveolar, and Palatal fricatives, both voiced and unvoiced. That is, the following consonants: /ʃ, ʒ/, /ɕ, ʑ/ and /ç, ʝ/. My problem is that I cannot distinguish between /ɕ, ʑ/ and /ç, ʝ/. More so, I am not sure if I even pronounce the Palato-Alveolar sibilants correctly, and perhaps confuse them with the palatals, which I know how to.
-
The language also has the rather rare ejective fricatives. I can handle ejective stops and ejective affricates, but my ejective fricatives turn out more like consonant clusters of the form /ʃʔ/ instead of real "co-articulated" (I know they aren't considered co-articulations, but...) /ʃʼ/. Same problem occurs when I try to pronounce ejectives without a following vowel, as in a cluster or word ending. The glottal stop seems to linger for some reason.
Anybody knows how to help me with those hurdles? It isn't the first time I had trouble with those consonants, and I would love to be able to nail them. If you have any tips, and perhaps recording of you pronouncing them if you want to share (ideally perhaps pronouncing the different consonants one after the other). Also, feel free to share some experiences with the North-West Caucasian languages, if you have any. Cheers!
... So do you guys hear this? Also does this just occur "naturally" because they use the "θ" sound while others use "s" sound.
I have a degree in Linguistics & am an ESOL teacher. I'm trying to learn Korean off my girlfriend, but I'm having trouble identifying the voiced vs. unvoiced alveolar affricates when listening. From what I've seen online they form them with a flatter & lower tongue than in English, but I don't think these show up on the IPA. Their /s/ also sounds a little (or a lot?) different. Can anyone shed some light?
Over the years, I've noticed that some speakers of Standard American English realize the voiceless stops /k/, /p/, and /t/ as /kχ/, /pχ/, or /tχ/ (I'm not sure if that is the correct IPA, but imagine it the "pr" in the French "près") when they precede certain mid or open vowels. For example, at times I hear people realize /klæs/ as /kχlæs/. It can be heard very clearly in this video at 1:01 when he says "point" or at 1:34 when he says "close."
I'm just wondering, has a paper been written on this phenomenon?
I truly cannot tell the difference between these two. I've actually seen many arguments about it online with regards to German Ach-laut, Hebrew Khaf, and Arabic Kha, and still haven't quite managed to distinguish them in speech and pronounce them myself. Obviously one is pronounced with the back of the tongue near the uvula and the other with the back of the tongue near the soft palate but either my tongue or my ears are failing me, as I can't make the distinction. The one possibly useful (if correct in the first place) piece of information I've found is the velar cannot trill while the uvular can, so if while holding it there is a gurgle, it is uvular. However, the only alternative I can manage simply feels and sounds more like a pharyngeal to me.
Are there any methods I could undertake to understand this? I can certainly pronounce at least one, if not both, but it's unclear which is which.
The first one is imo minor, since I use babelmap when I create orthographic rules, but it would still be nice if the following diacritics were added to the "quick pick": a̗ a̖ a̬ a̭ a̮ a̯ a̱ a̤ a̰ ḁ ạ ȃ.
Secondly, there is no alevolar diacritic, and when I copy the symbol from wikipedia to create a non-sibilant alveolar fricative (θ̠), it doesn't recognize it, so my suggestion is to add that feature.
Thank you for the awesome program!
I don't see why it can't, but I can't seem to find any attested examples in natural languages.
Hello there!
I read the beginning of this Wikipedia article.
https://vocaroo.com/18PcXNyr8IjC
> The voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative is a type of consonantal sound used in some spoken languages. It is familiar to English speakers as the 'th' in think. Though rather rare as a phoneme in the world's inventory of languages, it is encountered in some of the most widespread and influential.
Thanks for listening and have a good day/night!
