From my understanding, Achaea is just one of the many countries that made up the Greek landscape that invaded Troy, yet Homer uses βAchaeansβ to describe everyone west of the Aegean rather than the wider-encompassing βHellenes.β What is the reason behind that?
Title says it all
For example, when Hector kills Patroclus, he puts the armor on himself. If both sides were wearing similar style armor, how the heck are they not accidentally killing their own teammates in battle?
Basically most wanted hero from other Greek tribes (Dorians, Ionians and Aeolians).
Basically Greek heroes from already playable Greek culture group (the same culture as Achilles, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Menelaus and Odysseus).
Later I will create a poll for non-Achaean Greeks (Dorians, Ionians and Aeolians).
Samuel Butler translation:
> And now the Trojans would have been routed and driven back into Ilius, had not Priam's son Helenus, wisest of augurs, said to Hector and Aeneas, "Hector and Aeneas, you two are the mainstays of the Trojans and Lycians, for you are foremost at all times, alike in fight and counsel; hold your ground here, and go about among the host to rally them in front of the gates, or they will fling themselves into the arms of their wives, to the great joy of our foes. Then, when you have put heart into all our companies, we will stand firm here and fight the Danaans however hard they press us, for there is nothing else to be done. Meanwhile do you, Hector, go to the city and tell our mother what is happening. Tell her to bid the matrons gather at the temple of Minerva in the acropolis; let her then take her key and open the doors of the sacred building; there, upon the knees of Minerva, let her lay the largest, fairest robe she has in her house- the one she sets most store by; let her, moreover, promise to sacrifice twelve yearling heifers that have never yet felt the goad, in the temple of the goddess, if she will take pity on the town, with the wives and little ones of the Trojans, and keep the son of Tydeus from falling on the goodly city of Ilius; for he fights with fury and fills men's souls with panic. I hold him mightiest of them all; we did not fear even their great champion Achilles, son of a goddess though he be, as we do this man: his rage is beyond all bounds, and there is none can vie with him in prowess"
If Helenus is the wisest of augurs and he says Diomedes is the mightiest and scarier than Achilles, then why is Achilles the best fighter in the Iliad?
Jeffrey P. Emanuel from Harvard University thinks so.
To start with, the sea peoples were a purported confederacy of naval raiders who wreaked havoc in the Mediterranean around the time of the bronze age collapse that saw the major civilisations of the bronze age Mediterranean crumble. Many historians assume that the sea peoples had a role to play in said collapse, they mostly differ in thought on how large of a role they actually played.
Today we have inscriptions from Amarna letters(Egypt), Hittite records, Ugaritic records, linear B inscriptions (Mycenaean Greece), Cyprus(Alashiya) and Medinet Habu mortuary Temple in Egypt- a collection of contemporary sources that mention a growing problem of naval raiders, seemingly affecting all of the major powers at the time.
The question still remains who these sea peoples, purportedly from diverse backgrounds, actually were, with hundreds upon hundreds of theories having been formed over the years. Emanuel concerns himself with the possible historical inspiration of the sea peoples: movements for Homer's Odyssey.
Emanuel writes below
>Odysseusβ declaration that he led nine successful maritime raids prior to the Trojan War; his description of a similar, though illβfated, assault on Egypt; and his claim not only of having been spared in the wake of the Egyptian raid, but of spending a subsequent seven years in the land of the pharaohs, during which he gathered great wealth.
>Odysseusβ fictive experience is remarkably similar to the experience of one specific member of the βSea Peoplesβ groups best known from 19th and 20th dynasty Egyptian records.
Above he refers to the Sherden.
Passage from the Odyssey.
>"For before the sons of the Achaeans set foot on the land of Troy, I had nine times led warriors and swift-faring ships against foreign folk, and great spoil had ever fallen to my hands. Of this I would choose what pleased my mind, and much I afterwards obtained by lot."
We have ancient dna from a Philistine buried in Ashkelon. Said individual plotted closest to the Myceanean Greeks. 3 other late early iron age samples plotted closest to bronze age Anatolia. Is there any reason to think that Homer's Achaeans (Myceanean Greeks) were NOT prominent among the sea peoples? Among other groups, of course. Ancient DNA and archeological evidence from Philistia point to an influx of migrants from mixed Aegean/Anatolian origin.
>On reliefs, Sherden are shown carrying round shi
... keep reading on reddit β‘We hereby humbly request support in the war from our allies in Athens. This war is another threat by the Egyptian usurpers, that Athens has a duty to help fight. (Sorry for short post, on mobile?
According to this website, the Achaeans, contrary to academic consensus in the past, most likely arrived in Greece by coming across the Aegean from Anatolia, rather than from the Balkans to the north. This seems to be corroborated by this article in Nature that examines the genetics of Mycenaean, Minoan and Anatolian individuals from the Bronze Age.
Furthermore, we know that the Achaeans and the Anatolians show up in the archaeological record almost simultaneously around 2200β1900 BC. Does this mean that the (future Mycenaean) Achaeans were a part of the first Proto-Indo-European migratory wave, along with Hittites and Luwians? If yes, has anyone examined the possibility of a genetic relationship between Mycenaean Greek and Anatolian languages, when discounting substrate influences? Are there any particular reasons a genetic relationship between these languages is impossible?
Furthermore, Mycenaean Greek is customarily classified as a "Hellenic" language, along with later Graeco-Phrygian Doric Greek, which was most likely quite distinct from Mycenaean. Why are these clearly genetically unrelated groups both grouped under the family "Hellenic"?
Inspired by r/NFL
Curious to hear what people's favorite factions are after a day of Troy. I've tried Menelaus and Achilles so far, wasn't too keen on Achilles in particular. Who're your favorites from each side and why?
Doh!
Scooby-dooby... D'OH!!
As questions about Zeus, Hera, etc. in mythology keep coming up, I think having an ancient author (and one who is mainstream, not aligned with one particular school of philosophy) chime in would be a good idea. I've posted part of this before, but the translation is now finished:
>5. If Homer depicts not only the virtues, but also the vices of the soul in his poems, the griefs, pleasures, fears and desires, it is not right to cast blame at the poet. Being a poet, he is obliged to imitate not only moral behaviors but also immoral ones β as marvellous actions cannot take place without these β, from which the audience can distinguish the better deeds.
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>And he has the gods meeting with human beings, not only for the sake of delight and awe, but also to show by this that the gods are concerned with humans, and are not indifferent to them.
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>6. And in general, the narrative of events is constructed to be marvelous (paradoxos) and mythical (mythΓ΄dΓͺs), so that, by the abundance of anguish and wonder, the audience is furnished with an awe-inspiring experience (lit. βhearingβ). It is for this reason that he has said certain things that go against verisimilitude; for he does not always follow the plausible when he is aiming at the marvelous and exalted. For this reason, too, he not only elevates deeds above what we are used to, and changes them from what is familiar, but also does the same with speeches. That his novel and unusual expressions are always admired and win over his audience is obvious to all.
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>Besides, in those mythical passages, if one considers them not casually, but each of the passages in detail, it will become clear that there are all kinds of rational science and expertise in him, and that he offers many starting-points and seeds, so to speak, of all kinds of ideas and practices for those after him, and not only for the poets, but also for the writers in prose, in history and in philosophy (theΓ΄rΓͺmatikoi logoi).
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>But we shall first consider the variety of his speech, and then the variety of learning in its contents.
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>112. All right-thinking people believe there are gods, and Homer first of all, since he continually mentions the gods, as when he says βblessed (makares) godsβ and βgods who live with easeβ. Since they are immortal, they have an easy and ceaseless nature of living, and they do not require nourishm
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