Onomastics Puns

I’m very interested in studying human names in Indoeuropean languages and societies! I was wondering on where to start? If anyone has any tried-and-true book or textbook recommendations? Any recommendations for specific papers I could take a look at? Resources on Slavic, Germanic and Italic onomastics are especially welcome. I’m also interested on religious influence on onomastics so I’ll take any resources about that or onomastics in Semitic language families as well :-)

Hey I’m writing an essay for my uni degree about from blood and ash, does anyone have any ideas or points towards the naming practices of characters and locations

Hello and sorry for the sudden post.

I see that lots of Yoruba names begins with "O" like "Ologun", for example.

Is this featuring of "O" in names an honorific word beginning particle or something else?

Thank you for your time.

A place for members of r/onomastics to chat with each other

If your interest in linguistics leads you on to a more specific interest in names and name use, feel free to join the new r/onomastics, where we'll be sharing resources.

If you're interested in finding some resources and articles on the academic study of names and naming, feel free to join us at r/onomastics

I presented my first ever conference paper last week (scary baby steps!) on Viking nicknames in Landbamabok, the audio for which is available here if anyone is interested. https://www.anoxfordhistorian.com/post/icelandic-nicknames-my-conference-paper

I was looking up the etymology of a word in the Oxford English Dictionary recently. It said the etymology was unknown, but gave an example of one suggested etymology that was likely not true:

> A suggested derivation from -ki , -ky , in the surname suffix -ski , -sky (of Slavonic origin), is highly unlikely on both onomastic and formal grounds.

I looked up onomastic, which apparently means related to proper nouns. This didn’t help much.

Can someone explain what it means for an etymology to be unlikely on both onomastic and formal grounds?

(Withholding the word I looked up so this does not become a discussion of the etymology of that specific word. If it’s helpful, I can add it as a comment).

A wonderful resource for the study of names within works of literature.

https://digitalcommons.brockport.edu/jlo/

Hi, all:
Are there any (freely available) resources for researching Welsh place names? In particular, for smaller places like Talygarn, which I have not been able to find information on.

TIA!

Names like Johnson, Smithfield or Rodgers are fairly easy to explain.

I wonder how to explain the name: Dickinson

Names: The Journal of Onomastics, the journal published by the American Name Society, is now free and available online!! you guys this is so cool!!!!

https://www.americannamesociety.org/ans-names-the-journal-of-onomastics-goes-open-access/

Q:

Ziggy, we know that Zesshi doesn't have a name. So, what does means "絶死絶命" in the Japanese language according to the kanjis?

=====

That's her Black Scripture code name. It was never her real name.

"Zesshi" is literaly "Zetsu/Zechi" meaning "severing" or "bringing to an end" or "ceasing" (think Cease and Desist).

"Shi" = "Death"

"Zetsumei" is another way to say "death" or "annihilation" as a full word but is written ""Zetsu/Zechi"" = severing/ceasing and "Inochi" meaning "life".

Literally, the title can be read all together as "End of Death, Ender of Life" poetically as a compound.

But you can also read Zesshi's title as:

"Severing" "End of a Family Line" and "Line" because "Death + Severing" isa word that means "The end of a bloodline" pretty much.

So you could read Zesshi's name as a code name for vengeance, the annihilation of a certain bloodline. Ie rather than a Edge lord name it can be also just a "I will be the one to bring an end to a bloodline's existence".

So Zesshi = Sasuke Uchiha.

Maru doesn't always use the popular reading of kanji so it's not always easy to tell what he means exactly in terms of readings. Often it implies aspects of the story's background settings but it's not really important for the plot. A notable example is how Maru uses "Ma" usually used in magic.

Take Greek. Names are easily reducible to constituent parts and you can therefore always render a correct etymology.

Sanskrit is the same, obviously, but if you search online you get a load of shit. Somehow all these names mean "Lord Krishna" or whatever. This is religious nonsense and has nothing to do with linguistics. I've just spent 10 minutes googling for meanings for transparent Sanskrit names and its a joke. Rajender/Rajinder, which is OBVIOUSLY from Rajah + Indra is being given meanings from "fortuitous" to "happy" to, seriously, "Krishna".

Does anyone know of a good site? E.g Yudhiṣṭhira < yuddha + sthira.

"Onahole?"

No silly, it's a real word. It means studying names based on culture, grammer and so forth. I'll probably end up forgetting all this if I don't write it down.

So where does Surshana's name come from?

Well the most popular belief is Surshana, one of the first Players to touch down in this region 600 years ago adopted a name that symbolized this. The name he chose was 盧舎那仏, a shortend version of 昆盧遮那, in theory. It's a Buddhist term, but basically you can translate it as Rushana and the Buddha suffix.

Fun Fact, the Buddha suffix can also mean Dead Person or Spirit of the Dead, so Surshana could have accidentally created his own religion because auto translate botched what he meant. Though the Japanese guys I talk to think that was more the reason Maru named his similar undead Player rather than a plot reason. IT's written spriit because remember pre Buddhism, shinto was the new hotness so hence they tried to use a form of respect drawing on Shinto ideas.

So what the fuck is a Rushana?

It's a Japanese Buddhist term in particular. He was also known as 大日如来 or the "The Perfect one from the Great Sun". This was also read as a metaphor for the Supreme Deity (see where this is going)? It was supposed to be the Buddha of Buddhas in Japan a long time ago.

Since Buddhism is imported, it's originally called Vairocana. As a figure, he's meant to teach the truth of the world and enlighten everyone. Ironically his name originally meant 'Great Illuminator' hence the great sun connection in Japan.

It's worth noting Vairocana is meant to be one of five Great Buddhas, each represented by certain colors, elements, symbols and so on. It varies by nation but you have 5 Big Name Buddas, Dhyani-Buddha. One's Red (fire), Blue(water), Green(air), Yellow(Earth), and White(). Vairocana is supposed to be the light Buddha. So why is Surshana the God of Darkness and Death?

Well see sometimes there's 4 Buddas, sometimes 6. The 6th is supposed to be the Buddha of origin or the first one. 執金剛 or Vajradhara is considered the purest of the Buddahs, the one most closely linked to enlightenment. So some people see the 5 Great Gods as peopel driven by lust for their harems, thus Surshana being an undead would be beyond that if the Six Great Gods really followed that idea.

Surshana probably didn't intend to be worshipped in fear given the name he used. Also they as a group were not even referred to as Buddhas. Additionally, for some reaosn they had Baptismal name

Shwmae pawb! I was recently wondering about Welsh naming conventions.

Most names in Ireland, especially Irish surnames, have an English form and an Irish form. Either can be used depending on preference and language being spoken. Traditional Irish names are popular but most people would generally use the anglicized forms of these names by default and use the Irish form in more limited contexts. Sometimes Irish people decide to gaelicize their name partly or fully and go by the Irish-version from then on.

Cwestiynau

• Do Welsh people have two names as well, a “Welsh-language version” and an “English-language version”?
• What are your favourite Welsh traditional names?
• Do Welsh people or people living in Wales ever decide to ‘cambricize’ their names?
• Is it common to meet people with a traditional patronymic surname?

Diolch o galon!

The name used by Platinum, AKA the Platinum Dragon Lord in Volume 14.

A very strange name, especially since this series uses various languages for the New World. The Kingdom has English, Swedish, German, Roble is mainly Iberian in origin, Slaine has many French names, and so on. Oddly though only humanoids.... strange.

But what's not odd is that Tsa used a very Japanese name in his: Riku.

Also... Aganeia sounds made up but it's actually Greek...

What a weird combination. So what gives?

Well we can only guess, but let's explain what these names could mean.

In Volume 14, the names are written in Phonetic form, ie non-kanji. Riku's easy. Given Tsa's attachment to the world and his irritation at Pandora-Ainz using Riku first... I don't think it was because it was a first name basis. You could theorize it was... but Ziggy doesn't think so.

I do think Riku isn't just some Player's name at least. Tsa doesn't appear to be a stickler for formality given he befriends humans and let's them use his first name. Now he does really hate Players it seems. But... I'd like to talk you through an alternate explanation.

So he gets made when Pandora calls him Riku, but not Aganeia. Now you can chalk it up to Dragon culture sur name given name stuff. But, consider Cure Elim. Cure Elim gave his full name to someone he scorned (he didn't know Satoru was a Player at the time to be fair). Why did Tsa get made with Riku but not Aganeia or push for both?

Did you know, Riku can also mean "land". Really, it's true. In Japanese it's 陸. It has other names but it only means "land" when you pronounce it "Riku".

Dun dun duuun

Hm? I should probably elaborate.

Given Tsa's own sel-importance on protecting the world and the True Dragon lord "World Connector" class, as well as WN Tsa hearing the world scream, Ziggy thinks True Dragon Lords as or at least Tsa do have some unique connection to the Planet. So you could recontextualize Tsa's anger toward Ainz:

Ainz({Pandora) called Tsa Riku, which upset him not because it was a first name but as one of the Dragon Lords who mention the world was defiled, mentioning the name upset him for symbolic reasons.

we don't know how Tsa learned that word. But I would conjecture he learned of it talking with a Player. And took the name based on how a concept he explained was auto translated. In this case, it was probably Tsa explaining the entity they are connected to, whatever True Dragon Lords hear scream. It's only translated as

Many people note how World Items often have some historical, mythological, or religous connection to something on Earth (Longinus , Two World Mandala, Downfall, Ahura Mazda etc). However, one thing not quite clear among the World Items known is the Throne of Kings.

This reference is a bit more obscure because the name isn't actually in Engrish (it's a Kanji name) but it's referring to something translated into Japanese. The source is Richard II, by dat boi Shakespeare.

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,

This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,

This other Eden, demi-paradise,

This fortress built by Nature for her self

Against infection and the hand of war,

This happy breed of men, this little world,

This precious stone set in a silver sea

Which serves it in the office of a wall

Or as a moat defensive to a house,

Against the envy of less happier lands,

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,

This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,

Feared by their breed and famous for their birth, ... England, bound in with the triumphant sea,

Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege

I don't know if you want to see this as confirmation but Ziggy sees a common thread of 'natural defense' against invaders at least, where in England's case it was more logistical, but for Nazarick it's more minor impediments to make raids more difficult.

Downfall of Castle and Country is another more obscurly named World Item.

Credits to Nigel who pointed this one out to me.

When read literally Downfall is called the "A Woman So Alluring To the Lord She Brings The Country To Ruin". It's based on some old song sung in a fable during the Han Dynasty. Some associated the story with the woman Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo fought over as well. The song is probably less relevant to you all, but basically Random Chinese lady sings song to Emperor about mega hot girl, he asks if such a person be so beautiful as to ruin a nation, and then he finds out Random Chinese Girl's sister is the girl in the song. He gets super thirsty after seeing her. He then goes on to get clingy to her and ignores his responsibilities leading to a rebellion he could have avoided if he had just done his job

(TLDR: Emperor Had One Job But Was Too Busy Trying To Get His Dick Wet).

I'd give an account for the Holy Grail but you all get that one right? These are the two I think are the most obscure at least.

Depiction, Aura's World Item is a bit less grounded, but it com

Hello to all of you,

I hope I am asking this question at the right place. If not, please say so and I will delete my post (I do not want to pollute the subreddit with my annoyingly specific questions).

As part of my genealogy researches, I wanted to create my fiancé’s family tree. Problem is, his mother’s family emigrated in France (I am French, so is he) in the 1950s from Algeria (which was and still is a very common migration). But I cannot find any information on his surname online (and I have no idea how I could find an Algerian register unless I go to Algeria, and that’s not even a sure thing), leading me to a dead end.

Thus, I am wondering: would any of you, by ANY chance, have ever come across the name “Benhamanna” in your researches? Knowing that the family added “Ben” to their name when they came in France and were asked their name, does anyone know what “Hamanna” would mean/come from? I know that they are descendants of the Berber ethnic group.

Thank you a lot if you can help, sorry if it’s not the right place (once again please tell me if so).

Cheers

Hi all,

I'm currently having a discussion with an apologist who wrote an article on C.S. Lewis' trichotomy. In this article, he states that the reliability of the gospels affirms the validity of the trichotomy and proceeds to list 4 areas where he attempts to prove their reliability. He claims that the onomastic argument is the strongest, and we've been arguing back and forth about that for basically the entire day on twitter. Here is the relevant text of the article:

>Finally, there are numerous pieces of evidence internal to the gospels themselves that give them credibility. For instance, the authors’ familiarity with local terminology, 1st century politics, Palestinian/Mediterranean geography all support their claim to be either eyewitnesses or the careful recorders of eyewitness testimony. Let me elaborate here on one particular piece of evidence which I consider to be very powerful. Just in the last few decades, archaeologists have compiled a database of hundreds of proper names drawn from ossuaries, or bone-boxes, of Jews born between 300B.C. and 200 A.D. in Palestine. From this data, we can determine the relative frequencies of the names and compare them to Jewish names mentioned in the gospels and Acts. Not only do we find that the most popular New Testament names match the most popular names found on the ossuaries, we even find that the percentages roughly agree (see the table above). Given that this data consists of over a hundred names scattered over five different books, it is very unlikely to be the result of coincidence. The best explanation is that the writers preserved the actual names of historical individuals described in the gospels.

In our discussion, I asked him to provide his onomatic argument in a syllogistic format:

1. If the gospels were primarily legendary material, then it is unlikely that the proper names would be historical
2. The proper names are historical

>Therefore C. The gospels are not primarily legendary material
>
>(This is abductive not deductive reasoning, though.)

Now, it's been a while since I've been in any formal logic classes, but I picked up on an "Affirming the Antecedent" and provided the following link to help confirm my suspicions: https://homepage.usask.ca/~wiebeb/Propositional.html

I've also called out P1 because, to me, it seems readily apparent that the latter does not follow the former. I've tried using examples of h

I was watching Wion news yde and the lady was talking about a new virus in China called 'Hanta Virus'. She gave some info and goes on to say that WHO should look into the name and mentioned that nobody found that racist. She mentioned that because last few days, Wion has been referring to COVID as Chinese or Wuhan coronavirus - alluding to Trump naming COVID as Chinese Virus.

Anyways, I went on Wiki to look up on the virus. Interestingly I read that a similar strain was found in the US and was named after a geographical feature in the Navajo reservation. The Navajo nation objected to it and so they tried naming it after a nearby place 'Four Corners', which was again objected by the local residents and they finally named it Sin Nombre (meaning w/o a name in Spanish). The page might have been edited from yde, so I'm giving out links (I'm pretty sure I read it in Ortho hantavirus wiki page yde, couldn't find it today)

1: Wion ..... This is the wion link. The lady mentions it about 2:45. (not sure how to keep timestamps, forgive me)

2: Sin Nombre - LA Times

3: Wiki page for Sin Nombre virus

Now Trump had called COVID as 'Chinese Virus' and sought to put blame on China for the virus. There's a blame game going on. Also saw forward msgs saying that coronavirus was completely planned by China. And that China paid WHO to change name to COVID. And people in general are spouting out the bio war theory, not realising how it can affect relations between nations and also attitudes towards Asian people.

WHO had given guidelines for naming diseases back in 2015, where they clearly mention that insensitive naming could cause stigma. https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/notes/2015/naming-new-diseases/en/

Finally, ppl please realize that pandemics, epidemics and new diseases have been occurring from centuries back. Yes, few viruses have been named after their geographical origin, mostly at a time when people weren't racially sensitive. Already the Chinese are being ridiculed for their dietary habits full on. Yes, eating raw food carries danger of bacteria and viruses, and they should reduce eating raw bushmeat. They're taking steps to reduce that. Viruses spread not only through ingesting bushmeat, but also when people are handling animals (like in MERS). Also there's no evidence for CO

I've written about this before.

If you don't remember though all True Dragon Lords have an Engrish name and a kanji name.

Elder Coffin is by far the strangest though. Basically "Old Dead Body Receptacle"?

Well the kanji is actually "rotten" and "coffin". This to me is more appropriate given he's rotten because he's acquired Tier Magic (from a DL POV) and he's a coffin as in he somehow stored souls for later use.

I ask myself though, why Elder? Coffin is Coffin but Elder for rotten? This isn't the first time Maru's Engrish name is a bit odd.

Sword Master DL isn't Sword + Master. Best I can figure is MAru did it on purpose to hint at these Dragon Lords.

There is a theme in True DL titles as well, each Dragon has a two kanji name. Even the Dragon Emperor is a two kanji name.

This is contrary to say White Dragon Lord who has a one kanji title. But Blue Sky has a double kanji title. Oddly though, you can really scrutinize Draogn Lord titles.

Like is Blue Sky a literal title? Or are you supposed to read the kanji separately?

True DL titles are often less literal than what modern dragon lord titles are written. This probably hard to grasp but even the kanji Maru uses is sometimes atypical?

"But Ziggy Platinum Dragon Lord".

Yes yes I know. You can read PDL's title as "white" "gold" ie Platinum. But isn't it weird ti violates the pattern? Did you know you can read it differently as well?

Shocker, Japanese has weird exceptions.

Well you can read "white" as "Unaltered" or "Very", while "gold" can be read as "most valuable". Given the strange connections to language though, for dragon titles and even the draconic language, I'm inclined to think you read "white" as "preorchestrated words" or 'scripted lines'. It's a very uncommon reading, but it would be Platinum Dragon Lord " Most Valuable Title Dragon Lord". In a sense if he truly was the Dragon Emperor's son, it would almost be a title that conferred status before a descriptor of himself.

It's fairly possible this is all reading way, way, way too much into kanji.

But strangely, Ziggy has started to slowly come around to this idea that kanji choice is very significant in Overlord. From how New world only abilities are strictly kanji named, abilities that change can be easiy explained by kanji manifesting additional properties to the spell, and so on. Even World Items cancelling Wild Magic can be attributed to a coincidence of similar kanji (or the gag of Wairudo and Warudo). Even flavor tex

Double Release bitches. Deal with it.

So the Evileye sidestory is called Vampire Princess of the Lost (ruined or dead) Country. But Volume 14 is called Witch (Magical Woman) of the destroyed (wiped out or obliterated or vanished) Country.

Now many of might think Landfall shares the same kanji as Destroyed Country. But really Evileye's title is "Country Degenerator" or "One who makes a Country lose all that was good or desirable". funny how this got translated as Landfall.

Lost and Destroyed are very similar but the nuance is very different. Ziggy believes Maru did this on purpose. Especially with how Keno is a Vampire Princess in Volume '14' but a Magical Woman in Volume 14. It sort of reflects her different priorities and self identity in each canon.

Of course you could read it as "Evil Woman" but I'm pretty sure ti's meant to be "Magic" not "Evil" but Japanese be Japanese.

I'm curious as to why the description of the nation is different. Is it because Evileye believes it's her fault? While in the sidestory she never learned how she became undead?

Perhaps Tsa understood she had absorbed lots of souls and she mistakenly believed it was all her fault?

Did you know the Gobln names Enri uses from a fairy tale is actually a Japanese story?

Dun Dun Duuuuuun.

寿限無 - Jugemu

What is Rakugo?

It's basically one-man stand up comedy (but the person always sits down and does voices for multiple characters). Some are comedy at least... others are more like fables or story telling. Go watch that Rakugo anime if you want to see an example. It's a good anime.

Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju

If you actually want to see Jugemu performed in anime, watch Episode 17 or 24, but only if you dont' want to experience this anime's original story. Since spoilers. Mainly episode 24's version. You can just Youtube an English version too, well a short version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6lNVQccknQ

The real story is about a man unable to name his baby so he is dumb and repeats their entire convo as the babies name.

It's basically a gag about super up your own ass long Japanese names back in the day. Filthey commoners with their three or four syllable names understood though how gay long Jap names were.

Jugemu is basically baby's first Rakugo, used to train newbies because you have to repeat a super long name in it multiple times while entertaining the audience with different intonation. Think like those Latina girls who can repeat a super long name while pissed. It's comical because no one would ever remember or say a name this long.

It's interesting to believe some random Player actually passed along this story. It's even possible it's remembered as a song since RAkugo is performed almost like poetry. So if a Player heard it they would here Japanese. It does seem as if some names are lisped though so it's not remembered correctly. It could be only the names sound Japanese and the RAkugo is still remembered as a fairy tale story.

Gotta fanfic this up now kappa.

Hello people, Im doing research for my college course, so i need your help to pass it by answering to my anonymous survey if you have 10-15 minutes to spare. Its about username creation on online platforms, motivation and meanings behind creating your online names. So thank you in advance for taking your time to help me out. https://forms.gle/HgY8JSZfpD1ZmUaGA

Is there terminology that distinguishes personal names selected from a set words that are recognized as just personal names and have no other usage in the language as meaningful words (like in English where a large number of common personal names have been divorced from their etymological roots and are now simply recognized as common names, e.g. Robert, Richard, James) versus personal names that are also used as common words in the language (e.g. Hunter/hunter, Forest/forest, Faith/faith)?

Any francophones on here willing to share some of their favorite French websites with name lists, articles on onomastics, etc?

The Six Scriptures of Slaine are very interesting in terms of etymology.

First a fun fact. Originally Maru used one type of kanji for Scripture (we'll call this Skripchurz). Skripchurz referred to religous canon or holy books. Maru stopped using this and instead retconned it to Scripture, which means the same thing but can also refer to things described in memoirs or remembered being said by someone. Think Muhammad's quotes for example.

Did Maruyama change it to suggest the Scriptures were formed later in history post Great Gods based on things said and not actual religious dogma?

Makes you wonder given Maru retconned it, which is super rare.

Let's talk about Scriptures though.

You know the localized names of course. Black, Holocaust, Sunlight, Windflower, Clear Water.

But did you know the names follow a pattern?

陽光 漆黒 風花 水明 火滅

Here the raws. Notice how each is two kanji?

Well something to keep in mind, both Light and Darkness come SECOND in this pair, while Water, Wind, and Fire all come FIRST in their word.

Wind Flower relates to sparkling snow falling on a clear day fluttering from a breeze. It's related to certain prefectures in Japan. Wind Flower is just the literal meaning.

Holocaust is literally Fire Extermination, Fire Eradication, Fire Vanishing etc. Can read it as to turn off too. Lots of ways to read the kanji. That could explain why they assassinate, counter terrorism, and guerilla fight.

Clear Water is also described as light dancing on the surface of water. Because the Cardinals recommend Clear Water over Wind Flower, it appears Clear Water is a more friendly infiltrator, while Wind Flower is a cover ops type of infiltrator. The feelings of each supports this classification .

Sunlight refers to well Daylight or rays from the sun. You can read each kanji as Yang/Open/Life and influence/light. So a focus on Divine casters who summon can be postulated to come from reading these kanji in different ways.

Black is Jet Black. Of course it's dark or black. It can also refer to undeground darkness though (whic4 might suggest why Nigun said usually the BS deal with Miko's or foreign assassination). What about "Jet"? Well actually you can read it as either lacquer (shiny stuff on wood tables) but more interestingly you can read it as 'seven' but a legal form of seven, usually for legal documents. So if you use alternative readings, you can read the Blac7 Scripture as the Seven Darknesses. It should call to mind the