The Church authorities varied the definitions of consanguinity and of impediment to marriage by consanguinity and by affinity (prior marriage) at different times and in different places. For example, the Greek, Russian and Roman churches have different rules today.
In the 11th century, the consanguineous impediment was to the seventh degree in the longer line. So, Duke William, as a seventh generation descendant of Robert I of France should not marry another descendant of Robert I of France unless the latter were, at the least, an eighth generation descendant of Robert I. Matilda of Flanders was a fifth generation descendant of Robert I.
Here are the pertinent lines of descent:
William < Robert of Normandy < Judith of Brittany < Ermengarde of Anjou < Adele of Meaux < Robert of Vermandois < Adele of France < Robert I.
Matilda < Adela of France < Robert II < Hugh Capet < Hugh the Great < Robert I.
However, up to a degree, dispensation was possible, which of course was used both as a political weapon, and as a bargaining chip.
PS: Bretons tended to ignore these rules and the foreign political manoeuvring that attempted to exploit them. For example, the marriage between Alan III of Richmond and Bertha of Brittany would have been problematic elsewhere: they were within the fifth degree on Bertha's side (and Alan was only three generations from their most recent common ancestors). Moreover, Bertha's father Conan III and his wife Maud (an illegitimate daughter of Henry I of England) were within five degrees of consanguinity through multiple lines of descent. Similar observations apply to Conan III's parents Alan IV and Ermengarde of Anjou.
Hey, I am looking for Beta readers to do a general once over and make sure it makes sense. It has been Beta read before so it's already in pretty good order. It has been through four revisions so far.
As you read, could you leave me hints as to what your suspicions are. Let me know if you suspect a specific character, if you think someone is acting sneaky, or if you think you have figured out the mystery. I wrote it so I can't tell if the foreshadowing is working or if the whodunit is obvious.
I am available for a swap for a similar type of story (horror, thriller, suspense etc.). Would love feedback before the end of the month.
Trigger warnings: mild violence, mental illness/ PTSD, language, and mild body horror
Blurb:
Touted as the next big tech genius, Gemma's boyfriend, Henry, is getting a lot of unwanted attention. When an angry stalker is waiting for them in their apartment, the violent altercation catapults private Gemma into the headlines.
Hoping to leave behind the tabloids, the mouth-breathing internet vigilantes, and the stalker still at large; Henry buys Whitemarsh house. It’s an idyllic Addams family-style gothic dream house on a windswept cliff overlooking the Atlantic ocean. The perfect place to overcome her PTSD and rebuild her life.
Staying in the city to work, Henry guilts Gemma's younger sister Marni into sister-sitting. Once there Marni is desperate to escape back to the city, but Gemma can’t imagine being safe anywhere else. Their combined true crime and horror movie knowledge hasn’t adequately prepared them for Whitemarsh House.
Hello! So let me explain to you the family tree (btw Im hispanic so we carry two last names I dont know if this will make it easier but anything after * will be a last name, for some I found both last names for others Ive only found one)
Family 1 Dad: Manuel* Rodriguez Mom: Ines* Collazo Children: Juan Ramon* Rodriguez Collazo and Teresa* Rodriguez Collazo
Family 2 Dad: Jose* Veguilla Rodriguez Mom: Rita* Rodriguez Children: Angela* Veguilla Rodriguez and Juan Jose* Veguilla Rodriguez
So Juan Ramon from family 1 married Angela and Teresa married Juan Jose from family 2. In both marriage certificates it says they are 3rd degree of consanguinity... but Im still confused as to how...
To my understanding 3rd degree is between aunt/uncle and niece/nephew so how can both marriages be a 3rd degree?
Three of the parents share the last name Rodriguez so I think Im missing a relationship between the parents that would make their children a 3rd degree... I think...
(I dont know if this will help but our first last name is from our father and our second last name is from our mother.)
Thank you and I hope I was able to explain this correctly... this side of the family is crazy tangled and has my brain fryed 😅
I've had the opportunity to dig through some of my older notes and files and was reminded of the specifics of how the feral wild men are able to populate. I wanted to touch of that just a bit for those who are curious! I receive DMs daily from curious people around the world wanting to know more. I hope to answer some of your questions.
We know that these wild men are absolute savages. Eating anything they can to survive including deer! Deer provide a large meal that can feed most of the clan...and maybe a rabbit or two for dessert! From time to time, they will snatch a vulnerable hiker and make a meal out of the kidneys, spleen, eye balls, and the buttox. Any other human that consumes flesh would have to worry about Kuru and Prion Disease, which tells us that these feral wild men may not be completely human. They have become immune to Kuru.
It is in their DNA to do what needs to be done to survive. To bare children is also a natural instinct.
According to locals, Feral Wild Men will absolutely snatch a young woman for purposes of child birth. Imagine being kidnapped by one of these ferals, being rapped and kept hostage until you gave birth, then killed once your purpose has expired. There would have to be human sperm to accomplish this, which leads me to still believe the ferals do have human DNA, although anything could be possible. We hear stories all the time of women being impregnated by aliens, so of course there are a lot of unanswered questions on how this is accomplished by the ferals. I do not think that this happens often. So, that leads to incest.
Incest is the main form of how the ferals keep their likeness alive. Sometimes it's the only option. There are no morals within a clan. Nothing taboo. It just does not matter to them.
Consider incest and Inbreeding (which are two different concepts yet they would both apply to the ferals in my opinion) and consider the disabilities and congenital defects of these acts. Eye witness reports that have dated back to the 1840s show that the ferals are... well.... something out of your worst nightmare. We are talking about deformities that include one eye way up on the forehead and the second eye down by the nose. Lumps and humps on the back. Visible rib cage. Oversized kneecaps and large feet. Hair growth patterns that are splotchy throughout the body and a cranium that is too large in comparison to the face. The skin has developed calluses and is thick due to the elements. A creature that is too
... keep reading on reddit ➡I’m currently pregnant with our first child. My partner’s parents are first cousins. He is healthy but does this increase the risk of our baby having a trisomy disorder?
Shouldn't marriage between cousins be disallowed for catholics? I think you had to be 5th cousins in order to be allowed to.marry. Can anyone confirm?
My first thought is that someone would lobby to remove this law.
My second thought is that dynasties would evolve to circle of friends.
Third is that many would find backing within the rich to be used as puppets.
What do you think? This is just a theoretical exercise.
Edit: this theoretical exercise is quite thought-provoking. this just proves that no matter what government system there is, none of them will be perfect for they are all done by people and most politicians are people with self-interests pretending to be quite abnegating. sometimes it takes a dumb suggestion to see who really knew things about governance.
Incest is frowned upon due to the increased probability of genetic mutations found in offspring. Do you think that genetic mutations (defects) would occur more frequently in same race couples in comparison to a couple with mixed racial background?
Couple A have grandparents from England, parents from England and have had children with each other.
Couple B have grandparents of different races, parents of different races and have also had children with each other.
Would Couple A have a higher chance of having health problems caused by incest than Couple B? Why?
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Really curious since all this happened in the early 19th century say that they were used to. I asked a question about this, just thought it was all planned by the SS and there were a couple small carriers in the Atlantic near the colonies of North America.
I'm looking at a Roman Catholic marriage record from Ontario in 1894, and it mentions that the bride and groom were given a dispensation for consanguinity "in tertio mixto cum quarto gradu" (the record is otherwise in English; just that phrase is in Latin). I know that it translates as "in the third mixed with fourth degree", and I know that third degree means a shared great-grandparent and fourth degree is a shared great-great-grandparent. What I'm not sure about is whether they meant to indicate that that there was one shared ancestor (or couple) who was three degrees from one of the spouses and four degrees from the other, or if they meant that the couple shared two separate common ancestors, and one of the relationships was third-degree while the other was fourth-degree.
According to the consanguinity article in the Catholic Encyclopedia, when the common ancestor is different distances from each person, only the longer distance counts.
>But the Canon law, in the collateral line of consanguinity, computes for marriage one series only of generations, and if the series are unequal, only the longer one. Hence the principle of canon law that in the transverse or collateral line there are as many degrees of consanguinity as there are persons in the longer series, omitting the common stock or root.
That leads me to think that this record should be indicating that there are two different relationships between the bride and groom. However, it also seems reasonable to think that, in practice, a priest is likely to have written down the two different degrees that both refer to one relationship, despite what canon law might technically have required.
Does anyone know what "in tertio mixto cum quarto gradu" actually indicates here, or if there's even a way to be sure? Depending on what it means, this record might help a theory I have about who my g-g-g-g-g-grandparents were.
Also, does anyone know whether applications for dispensation are something the Catholic diocese held on to? If there's still a copy of it out there with an actual list of this couple's ancestors back to the common one, that would be amazing.
Thanks in advance.
In real life, this is quite a dilemma for breeder but as far as the game goes, I'm trying so far to avoid share ancestry up to the great-parents
The prohibited degrees of consanguinity changed over the centuries, but how was it decided where to draw the "lines" between what was acceptable and what was not? Was it based on science, such as observing health problems that arose when breeding animals within close relations over several generations? Or was it rooted in morality or religion? How did institutions justify creating/removing prohibitions against relationships that were once deemed acceptable/unacceptable when those lines moved from, say, the fourth degree to the sixth or vice versa?
In the marriage record of two of my ancestors it mentions that they were wed after obtaining “la dispensa de consanguinidad en el 2o grado de la línea colateral.”
So I know it means they were related, but I can’t seem to figure out just how closely related these two people were. Are they Uncle/Niece? Cousins?
I know Hagrid and Ron said no one in the British Isles were truly pure-blood, that every witch or wizard at some point had a Muggle ancestor, and I'm not disputing that. But the fact is that the wizarding United Kingdom is very isolationist, and that hinders pure-bloods... well staying put-blood. For info, the definition of pure-blood is from Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy and the criteria to be pure-blood is to have four grandparents that aren't either Muggle, Muggle-born or (possibly) Squib. This means that you could have eight Muggle-born great-grandparents (as two Muggle-borns form a half-blood if the child is magical), but statistically you wouldn't be pure-blood with this set of great-grandparents unless you were part of a frighteningly strange experience.
Going back to the subject, it's not hard for a determined family to stay pure-blood. The British Isles have the default of being... well islands, and completely sovereign. The wizarding communities on the continent would most likely be more connected with their neighbours because of the land connections and apparently there are some countries like Luxembourg and Liechtenstein who don't really track international Apparition and can be used for illegal border crossing (unless that is pure Fanon and wizarding countries don't bother tracking international apparition or entering a country by broom). So, want it or not, the continental nations are closer between each other than the UK is with the rest of the world just by factor of being connected by land.
That got me thinking that for every generation you could ensure that your children marry other pure-bloods from a different country so as to shake up the genealogical pool and would prevent the line from weakening with every passing incestuous/consanguineous generation and greatly diminish of not completely prevent the existence of Squibs if we are to follow the theory that Squibs are caused by the accumulation of incest as can be seen with the case of the Gaunts and Tom Riddle Jr. Lastly, and I know this doesn't mean much, but I'd like to remember everyone that the two most powerful wizards of the twentieth century in Great Britain are two half-bloods (meaning the radical and sudden change in half of the genes could have very well boosted them) and that the most powerful from the continent we know of is very most likely pure-blood. Coincidence? I think not.
There is a possibility that my great-grandmother's parents were father and daughter. Is there a way to determine this at this degree of remove?
In case you don't like big words, here's the TLDR: polygamy causes consanguinity, "inbreeding", where a disease (s) continues because there's no genetic diversity. I first read about it when I was researching (before the CES letter) about polygamy. Part of this occurred because polygamists in early Utah had to hide, so some kids didn't know who was their relative and who was not, and some inbreeding occurred by accident (fall in love with your half-brother, anyone?, or your cousin?). It's awful to read about.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8428/330d32c5a9a78124768b139649f9b0d6e31c.pdf
https://www.exmormon.org/d6/drupal/The-Genetic-Catastrophe-That-Has-Sprung-from-Polygamy
So many other google searches, also.
Sad.
I have some ancestral cousins who married. Now Ancestry keeps showing them starting brother and sister as half as well as full. If i remove one lot of relationships they just seem to kerp returning. Am i doing something wrong or do i just newd to put up with it?
I'm gonna try my best to use right words here, I don't want this thread to end up being a racist debate.
I noticed that a lot of cases of congenital malformations I've seen in medias are from India. So I googled it, the answer I found was that consanguinity is common in India.
I was surprised because this is the second most populated country in the world, so technically they should be able to marry someone outside of their family. Could it be because of the casts? But still, there's so many people in India so it doesn't make sense to me. Does anyone have an explanation?
Age: 25 MALE Height ~ 181 cms Weight ~ 83 kilograms
I tried posting this on medical subreddits but found nothing useful there. I hope my post isn’t removed and I’m not banned. I have a legitimate question that I want to ask.
Ok please don’t judge me. I come from a society where we have arranged marriages, where your parents can/do hook you up with somebody.
I’m not looking to get married yet but I’m afraid my parents might get proposals for me from within my “community” where the girl could be a distant relative. We all know the complications that can happen in consanguineous marriages.
So I wanted to know if there’s any type of blood/dna testing available that myself and the potential bride could get done which could show if we are or are not too closely related?
Any advise is sincerely appreciated. Thank You
Hello friends is there an app or method to calculate the degree of consanguinity of a large family dataset ?
I have a large family file, 1700+ names so far, and the number of cousin marriage is mind boggling, and it ain't from south Carolina🙄😵
I feel like I should be able to do this in my sleep, but I'm not positive about this one.
If Henry VI and Edward IV were third cousins twice removed, does that mean Richard (E4's father) was H6's second cousin thrice removed, or only once?
I’m currently pregnant with our first child. My partner’s parents are first cousins. He is healthy but does this increase the risk of our baby having a trisomy disorder?
