Balaam Puns

I thought for sure this must be two stories edited together, or two deities revised to be given one name, but Friedman says it's just one author, with an occasional word changed.

So, it occurred to me this morning as I was reading through Isaiah that there seems to be Biblical mention of some people who were Prophets/Seers outside of the covenant people of God who were given legitimate/genuine guidance and provision from God; and I started to wonder what this might imply about some (not all) wise/holy people who are held as prophets outside of the canonical Abrahamic prophets.

So, here's the context. Balaam son of Beor was a Seer, a prophet; he was a non-Israelite, and he was living in the vicinity of Moab during the time that Israel was entering the promised land. Balaam was commissioned by the king of Moab to curse Israel, yet Balaam was adamant that he would not speak anything over Israel save what God would tell him to speak. So, having offered sacrifice three times, he blessed Israel three times with the blessings that God put into his mouth; and the king of Moab sent him away without the wages he had offered, because he had blessed Israel, and not cursed them.

Later, of course, he went on to try to sabotage Israel by tempting them to sin; hoping that if he did so that God would allow him to curse them and he would then be able to receive the wages of the king of Moab, but his fall isn't really what concerns the question at hand.

So my question is, if Balaam, a man outside the covenant of God and far away from God's people most of his life was a legitimate and actual prophet, who spoke to God (and to whom God spoke, revealed things, and through whom God blessed and cursed, by all accounts) does this mean we should assume the existence of other prophets from around that time (and possibly after) from outside the covenant people of God, possibly around the world?

If so, how do you suppose we might determine who (if any) among the historically revered teachers from around the world was in fact in communion with God on some level, as Balaam was before Israel came his way and he transgressed to his own destruction?

Any references to this subject from the Church fathers/tradition would also be welcome, so I may get an idea of what the historical consideration of this may have been. Thanks, and God Bless!

Would really appreciate any sources on Balaam (the guy with the talking donkey). It was my understanding that Moses was unique in being someone with whom God met and spoke face to face. But then there’s this guy who isn’t even an Israelite and God is talking with him. And he is loyal to God (at least at first), too! What is the deal with this guy?

So I was reading through Matthew Barrett's book, "None Greater", which I highly recommend, when he started talking about Balaam's donkey and it got me thinking. Barrett, like a lot of people believe God spoke through Balaam's donkey. The donkey said, "What have I done to you that you struck me these three times?". Barrett sees this as God's sense of humor. I'm a bit worried about that interpretation because it makes God seem like a deceiver (speaking through a donkey saying "I" and "me"). Anyways, that's why I prefer to see this as God actually giving the donkey the ability to reason and speak momentarily, but I want to know what you guys think.

Also, how has this historically been understood? Is there one prevailing position historically?

Searching on the internet, i found out that Kirell suffers from dissociative identity disorder, and Balaam is her second personality, not a simple part of her. This could be caused by childood trauma, he probably "showed up" when she was a pre-teen.

If you have questions you can ask me in a comment!

Just read Numbers 22, and I'm interested in why God is talking to Balaam. Who is this guy that is not an Israelite speaking with God? I don't remember any other examples of God speaking to other non-Israelites in the Old Testament. I might be wrong about, that so please let me know if there are other examples of non-Israelites speaking to God. I'm just wondering how he was having conversations with God. If you know how that was possible when you weren't an israelite, let me know.

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Numbers illustrates him as more positive, whereas the NT has him as a wicked person. Am I missing something?

I am an aspiring scripture, history, and Talmud scholar, so I would appreciate any substantive discussion or feedback on the material set forth below.

One of my favorite niches is studying common traditions not recorded in scripture but independently attested to by the Talmud and Josephus. I find them particularly fascinating in light of the conundrum presented by Josephus's complete absence from the Talmud, as well as the (relatively understandable) complete absence of most Mishnaic and Talmudic scholars from the historical record.

Scholars have pointed out many examples of traditions with common roots appearing in both the Talmud and Josephus, each example interesting in its own way. For example, Choni the circle-maker, hero of two of the Talmud's most fascinating folk tales, is likely attested to in Josephus as Onias the Rain-Bringer, a peace-loving miracle worker who was stoned to death after refusing to pray for victory in an internecine dispute. Joshua ben Gamla, a wealthy and aristocratic priest, is credited in the Talmud for instituting organized education in Judea. One of a series of tragic stories describing the Roman destruction of Judea depicts his wife Martha as a pampered noblewoman. Josephus describes Joshua as a close friend who was killed by zealots during the First Revolt.

Recently, I stumbled on a commonality about which I have not been able to find any scholarship. The commonality is minor and relatively mundane, which may be why there is not readily identifiable scholarship on it. But the mundane-ness seems to me to also be counter-intuitively significant - after all, it should not be surprising that there was a shared cultural memory regarding big, important events. But when a tiny inconsequential commonality turns up, that suggests that Josephus and the Talmud were incorporating even some tiny inconsequential details from a common source.

The Talmud in Bava Batra 14b lists the authorship attributions for various biblical figures and the books of scripture associated with them. (As an aside, and distinctly not as apologetics, the attributions are not all in keeping with general traditionalist assumptions, and are quite interesting. For example, Isaiah is not said to have been written by Isaiah, but by "Hezekiah and his cohort." The Books of Kings are said to have been written by Jeremiah, an identification that is echoed by Richard Elliot Friedman, who identifies Jeremiah and his scribe, Baruch, as the redacto

So balaams story is that two men came to balaam telling him to “go with them” to put a curse on the Israelites.

He talked to God and God told him not to go. The next day god changed his mind and told him to go. The day after that god tried to kill him for going.

9 God came to Balaam and asked, “Who are these men with you?”

10 Balaam said to God, “Balak son of Zippor, king of Moab, sent me this message: 11 ‘A people that has come out of Egypt covers the face of the land. Now come and put a curse on them for me. Perhaps then I will be able to fight them and drive them away.’”

12 But God said to Balaam, “Do not go with them. You must not put a curse on those people, because they are blessed.”

........

18 But Balaam answered them, “Even if Balak gave me all the silver and gold in his palace, I could not do anything great or small to go beyond the command of the Lord my God. 19 Now spend the night here so that I can find out what else the Lord will tell me.”

20 That night God came to Balaam and said, “Since these men have come to summon you, go with them, but do only what I tell you.”

21 Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. 22 But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.

.......

32 The angel of the Lord asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me.[a] 33 The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”

A link to the passage:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+22&version=NIV

Why did God get mad at Balaam for doing what he told him to do?

Why did God ask Balaam “who are these men”? He’s god, doesn’t he know everything?

Why did God, who is all knowing and all wise, change his mind? He’s all knowing. So he was wrong at one point?

Why did Gods angel get bested by a donkey? It’s a an angel. He’s a donkey.

Anyone familiar with this text? It's an independent, non-biblical attestation of Balaam the prophet. There's a few paralells to the OT, especially in how he receives his oracles from El through dreams, then relays it to his companions upon waking. Anyway, here is the relevant part:

> The gods came to him at night. And he beheld a vision in accordance with El's utterance.

> They said to Balaam, son of Beor: "So will it be done, with naught surviving. No one has seen [the likes of] what you have heard!"

> Balaam arose on the morrow; he summoned the heads of the assembly to him, and for two days he fasted, and wept bitterly.

> Then his intimates entered into his presence, and they said to Balaam, son of Beor, "Why do you fast, and why do you weep?"

> Then he said to them: "Be seated, and I will relate to you what the Shaddai gods have planned, and go, see the acts of the god!"

> "The gods have banded together; the Shaddai gods have established a council, and they have said to Sheger: 'Sew up, close up the heavens with dense cloud, that darkness exist there, not brilliance; obscurity and not clarity; so that you instill dread in dense darkness. And - never utter a sound again!' > It shall be that the swift and crane will shriek insult to the eagle, and a nest of vultures shall cry out in response. The stork, the young of the falcon and the owl, the chicks of the heron, sparrow and cluster of eagles; pigeons and birds, [and fowl in the s]ky. And a rod [shall flay the cat]tle; where there are ewes, a staff shall be brought. Hares - eat together! Free[ly feed], oh beasts [of the field]! And [freely] drink, asses and hyenas!"

> Heed the admonition, adversaries of She[ger-and-Ashtar]!

> ... skilled diviner. To skilled diviners shall one take you, and to an oracle; to a perfumer of myrrh and a priestess. Who covers his body with oil, and rubs himself with olive oil. To one bearing an offering in a horn; one augurer after another, and yet another. As one augurer broke away from his colleagues, the strikers departed ...

> They heard incantations from afar > ... > Then disease was unleashed and all beheld acts of distress. Sheger-and-Ashtar did not ...

> The piglet [drove out] the leopard and the ... drove out the young of the ... > .. double offerings

> And he beheld ...

Me and my friend u/sophiaaAAA7 thought that if the fandom was bigger everyone would probably be split between these two teams, what do you chose?

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17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Numbers 31 King James Version (KJV)

31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.

4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, a