The juggling troupe gave a performance at my college in Southern California. A couple of clear memories stand out.
First, "The Gamble", which was called "The Challenge" at the time. The "Champ" would juggle three items donated by and voted on by the audience. The items would have to comply with various rules (Between an ounce and 10 pounds in weight, not dangerous, not a live animal, no bigger than a breadbox, wouldn't make The Champ no longer a live animal). Each item was held up for a vote by crowd noise. The most popular was announced as "the fan motor of DEATH!".
Another item was a block of ice that The Champ theatrically tried to hide by kicking it behind him on the stage. "That's it for the items today! No more left!" Of course, the audience called out "Ice! Ice!" The Champ turned to another member of the troupe. "What are they saying?" His compatriot replied, "It seems to be a greeting of some kind." They then turned back to the audience and waved, "Ice! Ice!" Plenty of laughs all around. Later in the show, the members would often come out with a wave and a friendly call of "Ice! Ice!" More laughs. Anyway, the ice proved to be too slippery to be juggled for the required three out of ten throws, so The Champ got a pie in the face that day.
I was sitting in the audience next to one of the campus' very good jugglers. One incident made him gasp. Three troupe members would face a fourth across the stage, all juggling pins. The three would alternate passing a pin to the fourth, with the aim not always being the best and adding to the challenge. One toss was supposed to bounce off the floor then come up to the fourth's chest height. Instead, it skipped toward him at ankle height. The fourth let out a quick sound of disgust as the pin spun toward him. He caught it on his ankle and kicked it back perfectly to the right person in the pattern, and even to the correct hand. The facial expressions of all four spoke volumes of how they had gotten away with one!
Or if this question is too specific, generally speaking, what was the book market like in the late 19th century in Europe? Would a literate person of modest means (e.g, a teacher or store clerk) be able to easily afford and shop for contemporary books? Or were books still a bit of a luxury at this time?
Discussion Prompts:
- We get a brief reminder about the relations between Ilusha, Smurov, Kolya, the other boys from the school, and that it has been Alyosha who has facilitated the visits to Ilusha. Why does Alyosha care so much?
- I think we get information that it’s been at least two months between the finger-biting (and Mitya’s arrest) and the present day. I hope we find out what everyone else has been up to in the meantime.
- It’s a tease, but Katerina has sent for a doctor at great expense from Moscow “for another object of which more will be said in its place hereafter.” Mysterious! Who has been unwell close to Katerina?
- Kolya bows politely to Ilusha’s mother and sister. Ilusha is thrilled to see his friend, and he had a new dog! A mastiff that will grow up to be huge and fierce, a perfect dog for a young teenage boy living in a single room with the rest of his family!
- Did you think Kolya’s trick with Zhutchka/Perezvon was a rather cruel? He found the dog, which was a good act, but then did not ease Ilusha’s mind that he hadn’t killed his dog?
- The little cannon reappears, and we discover that Kolya and other boys were making gunpowder, leading to him declared a “desperate character.”
- We get further stories about killing a goose and being dragged to a justice of the peace, schoolmasters attempting to discipline Kolya, and the hidden information about the founding of Troy, ending with some slight disagreement between Kolya and Alyosha. From the comments, there seems to be a broad spectrum of opinion on Kolya as a character (and Kolya's character as a person). Has this chapter swayed you at all?
- The doctor makes a grand entrance! And we’re still no closer to Mitya’s trial it seems.
Book nomination discussion thread will be coming in the next few days!
Links:
Last Line:
> “Where is the patient?” he asked emphatically.
It took me three months to read this book, but it was well worth it. It was still extremely relevant 150 years later. I understand the influence that it had on people like William Faulkner, and I’m really glad to have sat with it and lived with the characters for so long.
Anyone here who loves Dostoevsky?
Discussion Prompts:
- We hear from the witnesses. Overall, how would you say these testimonies went? Any surprises?
- Did anyone’s testimony seem particularly damaging to Dmitri? Did they all? Was anyone’s testimony beneficial to Dmitri?
- Were you able to glean any insight into Grushenka’s testimony? Do you think she still has the same feelings for Dmitri that she professed the night before, or do you think this might be the end of their love affair? Does she stand by him, or cut her losses and leave?
- It says Grushenka has a fever and the start of a protracted illness that was to set in by the end of the day.
Does she have Covid?Are you at all worried about why this bit of information was shared with us? - What did you make of Dmitri’s dream? Any idea of what it could mean?
- Lastly, Dmitri seems touched that someone put a pillow under his head while he was asleep. Why do you think this is?
Links:
Last Line:
> ‘I’ve had a good dream, gentlemen,’ he said in a strangely altered voice, his face radiating with new-found happiness.
Discussion Prompts:
- Another chapter away from Mitya and his troubles. I wonder how he is coping with the winter weather whilst imprisoned. (I’m assuming he is imprisoned awaiting trial.)
- More domestic details of Kolya’s situation—the family has a lodger, whose maid is nine months pregnant without anyone noticing. Is this the most incredible thing we’ve been asked to believe as readers? What did you think of Kolya’s enjoyment of playing with “the kids” and his strong feeling that he has something most important to do today?
- I know that things were different in the 19th century, but working miniature cannons as toys? That seems so dangerous! (Also, who would absolutely try out a miniature cannon right now if they had the chance?)
- Agafya returns, engages in some wordplay with Kolya, who then heads off on his important mission. Shall we speculate on what it could be? All we really know is that he is acquainted with Ilusha and other boys of the town.
Links:
Last Line:
> “Ridiculous boy! You want a whipping for saying such things, that’s what you want!”
Discussion Prompts:
- Mitya gets charged and taken away. Were you at all surprised that he was so accepting of this outcome?
- How do you feel about Dmitri as a character? Is he good or bad? Flawed but redeemable? Flawed and unredeemable?
- Any thoughts on the farewell between Dmitri and Grushenka? Do you think they will they be together in the end?
- What about the farewell with Trifon and Kalganov? Did anything stand out to you with either of those?
- What are your thoughts on the first three parts of the book? What are your expectations for the final part?
Congratulations on finishing part three, and thanks for all the discussions throughout my week to post! u/awaiko will be taking over as we begin part four.
Links:
Last Line:
> ‘Is it worth it, is it really all worth it?’ the young man repeated bitterly.
Discussion Prompts:
- Mitya is made to undress and has his clothing searched which agitates him greatly. Any thoughts about this? In today’s world I think most of us would expect a suspect to be searched. Do you agree with the search, or should Dmitri’s word be enough since he’s a man of “honor”?
- Dmitri’s socks and underwear aren’t so clean. Did you feel any secondhand embarrassment for him? How clean are your socks and underwear?
- Dmitri also doesn’t like his feet. Why do you think these details are included?
- Dmitri ends up in Kalganov’s clothes. Do you have any good stories about how you ended up in someone else’s clothes?
- We come back to that open door which the investigators say Grigory insisted was open when he chased Dmitri. Did anyone go back and check what Grigory actually had told them?
- We also see the investigators show Dmitri the envelope that had the money in it, and tell Dmitri he said it was under the pillow. Did you go back to check if Dmitri had actually said that?
- It seems Dmitri is about to reveal how he got the money. This is your last chance to throw your theory out there. How did Dmitri get the money?
Links:
Last Line:
> Mitya, in fact, was not even listening.
"I exist.’ In thousands of agonies — I exist. I’m tormented on the rack — but I exist! Though I sit alone in a pillar — I exist! I see the sun, and if I don’t see the sun, I know it’s there. And there’s a whole life in that, in knowing that the sun is there."
This is a quote from Dmitri, who has just come to God while in prison. There seems to be some parallel between existence and the sun, but I can't quite figure it out. What do you think the sun represents in this case?
Thanks!
Discussion Prompts:
- Kolya sets out how he wants to make a first impression to Alyosha. What did you think of his monologue? Endearing that he wants to make such a good impression, or something else?
- Alyosha makes a good first impression, treating Kolya as an equal. How are you with children? Are they basically mini-adults, or a strange foreign species? (There is, I begrudgingly suppose, middle ground between those two options.)
- Kolya explains his history with Ilusha—initially defending him when he was being bullied, to being a role model, to Ilusha resenting Kolya’s influence and rebelling out of the spite, and finally a horrible trick (learned from Smerdyakov) harming a dog! What did you think of it all, remembering that these are boys of 11 and 13!
- What did you make of Alyosha’s reaction to this story?
- Is Ilusha’s illness a punishment from god? Does Kolya know more about the fate of Zhutchka than he’s letting on?
- Do you think Kolya playing robbers with the preparatory boys (a libellions story!) is the scrape that was alluded to a few chapters back?
We are getting ready to kick off the nominations for our next book. There will be a detailed post up this late this week or on the weekend. More details soon.
Links:
Last Line:
> “… Only Smurov must not forget to open the door at the moment. I’ll arrange it all and you’ll see something.”
Discussion Prompts:
- Kolya (precocious boy and doubter of medicine) and Perezvon (dog) collect Smurov (a younger boy) and head off to visit Ilusha, who is apparently dying of consumption (pulmonary tuberculosis). Apparently many of his classmates have been visiting, initially led by Alyosha. We are getting back to the Karamazov brothers!
- We also find out in a throwaway remark that Mitya’s trial will be in a day or two.
- Kolya veers from social and political commentary to random observations on what’s in front of him. What’s Dostoevsky trying to convey here? A sense of the whimsy of boyhood? Contemporaneous life in a small Russian town? Nothing more than some flavourful storytelling and I’m over-thinking it?
- After making mischief throughout the fair, they arrive at chez Snegiryov, where Kolya asks for Alyosha to be sent out to meet him in the cold Russian winter’s air. What is he planning?
Links:
Last Line:
> Kolya cut him short in the despotic tone he was fond of adopting with “small boys,” and Smurov ran to do his bidding.
Nomination thread for the next read is up! Go forth and nominate and discuss and upvote.
Discussion Prompts:
- We find out that a lot of Kolya’s opinions come from what Ratikin told him. (Recall that Ratikin was the young, cynical and sarcastic seminary student that Alyosha knows.) Alyosha takes it all with patience and when he disagrees he says why. What did you think of their conversation overall?
- Alyosha suggests that the “Russian schoolboy” is conceited in general, and Kolya gladly owns the label. Where does “boldness of thought and spirit” become arrogance?
- Alyosha tells Kolya he should have come earlier, who agrees. Is his remorse genuine, or is he just saying this because it’s what he think Alyosha expects?
- Kolya declares his love to Alyosha, feeling they’ve become close friends.
- We end with another cliff hanger! What could the doctor have to say?
Links:
Last Line:
> “I did. I loved you awfully. I’ve been loving and dreaming of you. And how do you know it all beforehand? Ah, here’s the doctor. Goodness! What will he tell us? Look at his face!”
Discussion Prompts:
- Dmitri’s interrogation continues. Was there anything you found noteworthy on what Dmitri would and would not share with the investigators? Is this a good strategy for Dmitri?
- What is your impression of the other two men in the room, the investigative magistrate Nikolai Parfenovich, and the prosecutor that felt he’s been passed over for promotion Ippolit Kyrillovich? Do you feel they’re being fair with Dmitri and trying to get the facts straight?
- Dmitri says he knows how these investigators operate by lulling the suspect into a false sense of security, then pouncing on them with the real questions. Do you think that this is what the investigators are doing?
- Dmitri states the only reason he didn’t kill Fenya was because he was in a hurry, and that he grabbed the pestle with the intent to murder his father. Any thoughts on these two statements?
- Dmitri repeatedly called himself a man of honour. Would you agree that he’s a man of honour, or disagree?
- How do you think this interrogation will end? Will Dmitri get charged or be set free?
Links:
Last Line:
> Well, shall I continue?’ he broke off gloomily. ‘By all means,’ replied Nikolai Parfenovich.
Discussion Prompts:
- It’s November and chilly (well, it’s January and humid, but never mind), 11 deg Réaumur. A quick reminder, Kolya Krassotkin is the boy that Ilusha stabbed with a penknife, prompted other boys to throw stones, prompting Alyosha to defend Ilyusha, but Ilusha bites Alyosha as revenge for Fyodor dragging Ilusha’s father, Nikolai, from a tavern by his beard. See Part 2 Chapters 3 and 4.
- We get an introduction to Kolya as a small, brilliant, somewhat manipulative boy. What did you think of him? What about the prank with the train? Is there any amount of money that would convince you to repeat the dare?
- We also are introduced to Kolya’s widow mother, and a teacher at the school, Dardanelov. Will their romance blossom? Or is this just flavouring for the story and we will never know how it works out? (Time for some fan-fic.)
- This chapter ends very suddenly! Speculation on what’s next? Where does this tie into Mitya’s arrest for Fyodor’s murder?
Links:
Last Line:
> Ilusha had been defending his father when the schoolboys jeered at him, shouting the nickname “wisp of tow.”
Discussion Prompts:
- Mitya continues with his version of how the night played out. My first question is, do you believe he’s telling the truth? Does anything from his version stand out to you?
- Dmitri learns of Fyodor’s open door and the investigators learn about the signal. Any thoughts on this? Are these significant clues?
- Dmitri says outright that he doesn’t believe Smerdyakov could be the killer, but according to our narrator his body language might be saying something else. Do you think Dmitri suspects Smerdyakov but is covering for him? Or do you think Dmitri really thinks Smerdyakov is too cowardly to commit such a crime? Maybe you have different opinion you can share?
- Dmitri won’t reveal how he got the money because he feels a sense of shame, and the amount he had was 1500 roubles, not the 3000 everyone had thought. Was this Fyodor’s money? If so, why does he only have half of it? If not, where could Dmitri have gotten the money from? And why does he feel a sense of shame about it after everything else he’s done?
- Things aren’t looking good for Dmitri at the moment. Is there anything he could’ve said or done to help him better make his case that he is innocent, or was there just too much evidence against him? What’s Dmitri best course of action from here?
Links:
Last Line:
> ‘Of course, behind the curtains,’ Nikolai Parfenovich inclined his head in acquiescence. His boyish face had assumed an air of extreme gravity.
I finished The Brothers Karamazov yesterday! My favorite book now. SPOILER: Ilusha’s funeral and Alyosha’s speech at the stone I found very powerful. What are you favorite moments in the book?
Discussion Prompts:
- Dmitri tells where he got the money from. Do you think he’s telling the truth and that he had actually kept 1500 of Katerina Ivanovna’s money?
- Did you feel that his story started to fall apart when he couldn’t describe the material he had used to sew the money in, or where he had discarded the “purse”, or do those seem like trivial details that Dmitri wouldn’t remember?
- Were you able to follow Dmitri’s reasoning for why he kept the money and never returned the half he says he had kept? Did that all make sense to you, or did you think it wasn’t a good enough reason to not return it?
- Dmitri asks “Why does a man lie sometimes?” (in regards to him telling everyone he spent all 3000). How would you answer this question? Have you ever lied to make a boast of yours seem more impressive?
- With the amount of evidence the investigators have, plus Dmitri’s own statements, do you think he’ll get charged with Fyodor’s murder? Would you like to predict whether or not he’ll get convicted if he is charged?
- Dmitri hasn’t been the most stable person. How do you think he’ll handle everything that’s happening to him? Will he go quietly, or do you see some more Dmitri fireworks in the future?
Links:
Last Line:
> ‘It won’t be long before I start raving,’ he thought to himself.
Nomination thread for the next read is up! Go forth and nominate and discuss and upvote.
Discussion Prompts:
- From what little we saw of the doctor, his solutions weren’t very helpful for a poor Russian family.
- Kolya, Ilusha and the captain have a very sad scene. Is Kolya reformed in his attitudes? Alyosha pressures Kolya to keep his word to Ilusha about visiting.
- And we end this book! Seven chapters (neatly fitting into my week doing prompts). What did you think of this diversion? Is there a broader theme from the stories of Alyosha’s influence on Kolya, Ilyusha, and the other boys?
- Shamelessly stolen from the comments yesterday -- what books would the characters here nominate for the next read?
Links:
Last Line:
> “I understand, that’s enough! Mind you come! Ici, Perezvon!” he cried with positive ferocity to the dog, and with rapid strides he went home.
Discussion Prompts:
Are you ready for a book following Dmitri?
- Having avoided his brothers for two days, Dmitri is in a state. Our narrator promises to recount two episodes for us.
- Dmitri considers the options with Grushenka, but they all involve money that he doesn’t have. Does it feel that this is becoming his motivation for his actions?
- Before reading the rest of the chapter, did you think that Dmitri was right to approach Samsonov? Or was it clear from the outset that this was a bad idea?
- Dmitri suggests a very roundabout deal, is rejected, and then Samsonov tries to dupe him in return. Could you picture the scene? Did you think it was tending to the ridiculous?
- Book Five Chapter Seven is where we first heard about the forest and Lyagavy -- Ivan decided not to engage in the business on behalf of Fyodor, seems like another brother is getting involved!
- Anything else you’d like to discuss from this chapter or any of the previous chapters?
Links:
Last Line:
> He did not utter his threat. But even his son, who often saw him enraged, trembled with fear. For a whole hour afterwards, the old man was shaking with anger, and by evening he was worse, and sent for the doctor.
Discussion Prompts:
- What did you think of this conversation between Ivan and Alexei?
- Ivan says he doesn't care about Katerina anymore. Do you believe him?
- What did you think of Alexei's advice to Ivan? "Half your work is done, Ivan, you love life, now you’ve only to try to do the second half and you are saved.”
- Ivan says: "It’s not that I don’t accept God, you must understand, it’s the world created by Him I don’t and cannot accept." What do you think of his argument here?
- Ivan says "the stupider one is, the closer one is to reality. The stupider one is, the clearer one is." Thoughts on this?
Links:
Final Line:
> Ivan smiled suddenly quite like a little gentle child. Alyosha had never seen such a smile on his face before.
Discussion Prompts:
- What did you think of the sermon from Father Zosima? Were there any parts that stood out to you?
- Whether you are religious or not, is there anything you can take away from his teachings?
- Zosima seems optimistic in his fellow man and the future. Any real life examples of a Zosima like person you could give, whether they are religious or not? Someone who’s kind, forgiving, and optimistic?
- We again get the disclaimer at the end of this chapter. Do you have any better insight as to why this may have been included?
- We end on a cliffhanger. Do you wish to wildly speculate on what this might be? Are you looking forward to finding out?
Congratulations on finishing Part 2, and a big thank you to everyone following along! I do my best to read everyone’s comments regardless, but I especially enjoy seeing peoples thoughts trickle in during my week to post and reading them throughout the day.
To those who celebrate, I wish you happy holidays! To our friends who don’t, I wish you happiness nonetheless! And I wish you all happy reading!
Links:
Last Line:
> judging by the effect both within the monastic community and in the town, so strange, alarming, and perplexing that even now, all these years later, our town still preserves the most vivid memories of that day, which left so many of its inhabitants filled with alarm…
Discussion Prompts:
- Which of the investigators do you think is the best suited to figure this thing out? The local police chief - Makarov, the doctor Varinsky, the public procurator - Kirillovich or the young state investigator Nelyudov?
- What did you think of the scene where Fyodor's body is discovered by Marfa?
- Which piece of evidence do you think is most crucial?
- The public procurator thinks that Dmitri wanted one last night of fun before shooting himself - is this a logical conclusion based on the evidence so far?
- So the doctor doesn't expect Smerdyakov to survive the night and states that his epileptic fits are of a very rare nature. If he is indeed putting on an act, will this draw suspicion on himself?
Links:
Final Line:
>After these long, but I think necessary explanations, we will return to that moment of our tale at which we broke off.
Discussion Prompts:
- Dmitri goes upstairs to commit suicide but changes his mind because "one hour, one single minute" of Grushenka's love is worth enduring anything for. Thoughts?
- What did you think of Maximov's singing and dancing?
- Grushenka is a bit all over the place here. She even claims that she wants to become a nun! Did anything else she said stand out to you?
- Dmitri tells Grushenka that he stole the money from somebody other than Fyodor. In my translation Katka, a young mistress (Katarina Ivanovna?). Do you believe him?
- Fyodor murdered! Dmitri is accused! Were you expecting this chapter ending?
Links:
Final Line:
>He said something more, and the prosecutor, too, put in something, but though Mitya heard them he did not understand them. He stared at them all with wild eyes.
Happy New Year folks! I know none of us expected to start the new year off by solving a murder, but Fyodor’s ghost the Karamazov family the whole of Russia the entire world is counting on us. Let’s solve a mystery!
Discussion Prompts: ClassicBookClubs official inquiry of Dmitri Karamazov in regards to the allegation that he murdered Fyodor Karamazov:
- Dmitri denies the allegation that he murdered Fyodor. Do we let him go? I mean he said he didn’t do it. Do we believe him?
- Are Dmitri’s answers to the investigator’s questions suspicious? Is there anything he said that we should take note of?
- Dmitri states, “I’ve been telling everyone I was going to kill him, and now, all of a sudden, someone’s gone and killed him: so who else could it be but me? Ha-ha! I don’t hold it against you, gentlemen, honestly I don’t. I’m absolutely mystified, because who on earth could have killed him if it wasn’t me? Isn’t that right? If it wasn’t me, who was it then, who?” Is this an admission of guilt?
- Were you at all surprised by the sudden change in Grushenka’s feelings towards Dmitri? Is it because they’re in cahoots and had conspired to commit this murder together? It seems suspicious to me.
- Are we ready to charge Dmitri with murder, or do we continue to gather evidence?
Thus ClassicBookClub’s inquiry of Dmitri Karamazov has been temporarily paused to decide if any further course of action is required.
Here are a few more questions to mull over in the meantime.
- Dmitri claims he isn’t the murderer, but do we have any other suspects? Perhaps some vagrant passing through town, or a satanic sex cult in the area? Do we know the whereabouts of Karp the screw?
- Would anyone like to play detective and try to piece the evidence together and give an account of what you think transpired on that fateful night?
- Can Dmitri talk his way out of this, or is there just too much evidence against him to let him go?
And one last piece of official business, in honor of Pyotr Ilyich Perkhotin, a ❄️Team Peter Dandruff❄️ flair has been created. I know those are snowflakes, but are they really?
Also there is a 🧅Team Onion🧅 flair for anyone who might like to rock that one in honor of Grushenka’s tale of offering an onion.
Links:
[Li
... keep reading on reddit ➡Discussion Prompts:
- Book 9 is entitled The Preliminary Investigation. Are you excited for details of a police investigation into Fyodor's murder?
- So Grushenka's maid Fenya has given Dmitri away and even embellished things a little. Was he careless to go there after assaulting Grigory?
- What did you think of how the civil servant Perhotin handled things here? Were you as impressed as Mrs.Hohlakov ?
- Apparently this meeting was important in advancing the civil servants career. Any guesses as to why?
- What do you think of the formal style of house visitation that we see here and throughout the novel? Do you like it or do you prefer the more casual modern style?
Links:
Final Line:
>His story is remembered to this day with amazement in our town, and I shall perhaps have something to say about it, when I have finished my long history of the Brothers Karamazov.
I consider myself an intermediate reader, not too well read in classics but have some under my belt and decided to try my hand at the Greatest Russian, I didn't want to be prejudiced in my opinion and so did almost no research and picked one at random and started it.
Now, I am not new to struggling with a book in its initial phases so I persevered for the first hundred pages, which is usually my stopping point if I really am not feeling it and by god I was having to push myself. But this is not some run of the mill pulp fiction you found in the second hand shop, this is Dostoevsky! So now two hundred pages in, I think I have met all the principal characters so far. I dislike all of them. The naivety of Alexey, the devious Ivan and Dmitry the fool so far. Unreliable narrator I have been wondering?
I know from vague remembrance and references to his writing that the human condition are important themes of Dostoevsky and I tend to enjoy these aspects of literature but the sermons these people give, sometimes 3 or 4 pages of monologue. The arguments between them is just unbelievable to me too. I do not tend to love books because of the grand philosophical ideas rather I love the characters and their relationships and this might be my biggest issue so far. These people are all awful to each other and the only remotely likable character is being abused by all of them in my eyes.
What I am here to ask or need help with is a reason to continue this book. I am sure that if I continue it will be rewarding and want to continue but I have been sat here trying to go on but I can't do it. I didn't want to Google anything for fear of spoilers or something else that might ruin the experience so here I am asking for your kind help.
Now I believe that some of the problem can be because of the translation I have, which is the project Gutenberg version by Constance Garnette. I am open to buying a different version if you recommend it. Or should I switch to another of his works? I am open to that too.
Discussion Prompts:
- Dmitri has a note in his pocket that says 'I punish myself and punish' (McDuff translation). Is the translation different in your edition? Plus, what do you think is the significance of this note?
- "If only you’ve spoilt, if only you’ve ruined any one’s life—punish yourself and go away.” What do you think Dimitri means by this?
- The carriage driver tells Dmitri that he looks at him as being like boy or a young child. Do you agree with this assessment?
- What was your impression of the innkeeper Trifon Borissovitch?
- I remember Kalganov but I must admit I have forgotten Maximov, who is he again? Are you interested in these characters or not?
Links:
Final Line:
> “Aie!” shrieked Grushenka, the first to notice him.
I’ll add in the footnotes for those without them since they are an important part of understanding this chapter.
a Russian soldier: Warrant-Officer Foma Danilov of the 2nd Turkestan battalion, captured by the Kipchaks and put to death in Margelan on 21 Nov. 1875 (DW, Jan. 1877, ch. 1, para. 3.)
it is written in the Scriptures: Matthew 17: 20: ‘If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove …’; 21: 21: ‘if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done’; see also Mark 11: 23; Luke 17: 6.
Discussion Prompts:
- Where do you stand on the debate that took place?
- Could you follow Smerdyakov’s logic?
- What do you believe Smerdyakov’s intentions were by sharing his opinion?
- Do you think anyone on earth can move a mountain by telling it to move?
- Would you have renounced your faith to save your skin if you were in the Russian soldiers place?
Links:
Last Line:
> That’s why, sir, in the expectation of God’s eternal mercy, I go on harbouring the hope that I’d have been granted complete forgiveness…’
(Apologies for the extended text here, some housekeeping first. Scroll down for the prompts.)
Welcome to The Brothers Karamazov! Please have a read of the Announcement Post. In particular there’s a schedule (it’s a chapter-a-day), and some discussion of the various translations (some are modern, some are in the public domain, all are valid, and there’s no requirement to read in English).
There’s a “From The Author” that doesn’t seem to be included in all translations, so I’ve added it to the first comment below. Thanks u/UnclDav for the post yesterday
Russian names can be a bit tough. There was a handy guide from u/cautiou from when we last read Russian literature: Helpful Guide. We also have a short section on Dostoevsky's habit of switching between formal, informal and affectionate naming from when we read Crime and Punishment earlier this year: First half of this post. We'll get a Principal Characters thread together at some point, and hopefully have all the name variations.
For those joining us for the first time, welcome! Each day the moderators will post a discussion thread (usually late ‘the night before' U.S. time, in the small hours for the European readers, and towards the middle of the day for Asia and Oceania). The thread will include some discussion prompts, but you’re welcome to talk about anything related to the chapter, so long as there aren’t spoilers beyond the current chapter. And if you’re some chapters behind, that’s okay, please still comment if you’ve thoughts. Onto the prompts!
Discussion Prompts:
- The Author’s Note is quite haphazard and sets a light tone. Thoughts on it? Did your translation include it?
- Alexei Fyodorovich Karamazov (Alyosha) is introduced, but we spend the chapter learning about Fyodor Pavlovich Karamazov instead. Initial thoughts on Fyodor Pavlovich?
- Did you find the scenario ridiculous, tragic, darkly comic, or something else entirely?
- What do you think Dostoevsky is saying about truth and stories here? Nothing s
Discussion Prompts:
- After this chapter are you more or less convinced that Dmitri is a murderer?
- Mitya is behaving strangely and drawing attention to himself. Do you think the authorities will be informed?
- Dmitri makes suicide references but also states that he loves life. What did you think of this?
- Dimitri says "I must kill one noxious insect for fear it should crawl and spoil life for others...." Who do you think he is referring to here? Smerdy or Fyodor, the Polish captain?
- Dmitri is throwing money around like its nothing. If he is going down he is doing it in style. With that in mind, would you like to attend one of Mitya parties?
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Final Line:
>“Not coming? Well, I will knock them up, I will!” he muttered at each knock, fuming at himself, but at the same time he redoubled his knocks on the gate.
Discussion Prompts:
- Did the starets being alive when Alyosha arrived surprise you?
- We learn why the starets bowed to Dmitri, and why he wants Alyosha to find him. Any thoughts on this?
- What did you think of the starets reason for being so fond of Alyosha?
- Why do you believe the starets wants Alyosha to leave the monastery and live out in the world?
- We learn in this chapter that this is the last conversation with the starets on the final day of his life. What was your reaction to learning he’ll pass away?
- Why do you think the disclaimer of the story of Zosima’s brother being only partially recorded, and that others may have added to the story, was included?
Just another heads up that tomorrow’s chapter is another huge one. It is longer than The Grand Inquisitor chapter.
Links:
Last Line:
> That way it will be shorter and not so tedious, although of course, I repeat, Alyosha took many things from previous conversations and interwove them.
Discussion Prompts:
- We get some backstory for Grushenka. What did you think of her history? Does she feel more well-rounded to you as a character?
- That no man has succeeded in winning her (as she puts it) is an ominous sign for Dmitri.
- What did you think of her teasing of Alyosha for her purity and Rakitin for his prickly pride?
- Did anyone have Alyosha and Grushenka having a deep and rapturous conversation about their lives? Does this say anything about Alyosha’s post-monastery life and plans? Especially given that in his despair he hoped to find a sinful woman.
- Why would Grushenka pay Rakitin to bring Alyosha to her?
- Was there anything else from the chapter that you wished to discuss? (Do you like onions?)
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Last Line:
> And he turned abruptly into another street, leaving Alyosha alone in the dark. Alyosha came out of the town and walked across the fields to the monastery.
Discussion Prompts:
- What did you think of Ivan’s story of the Grand Inquisitor?
- What point do you think Ivan was making with his tale?
- Do you think this was an intentional jab from Dostoevsky at certain religious denominations? Anyone here from those certain denominations that felt slighted and would like to respond, in a civil manner I hope?
- What are your thoughts on Ivan after getting to know him better these last few chapters, and getting more insight into his thoughts? What are Ivan’s beliefs, or do you see him as someone questioning rather than having a firm conviction?
- Since this was set during lunch at the inn, which Karamazov brother do you think would be the most interesting to have lunch with?
- How did you view the brothers parting ways? Do they care for each other? Are they on good terms? Did they make a connection as Alyosha had been wanting to for months and Ivan had been avoiding?
- Is there anything else from this chapter you’d like to discuss?
Links:
Last Line:
> Several times later in his life he was to wonder perplexedly how, on leaving Ivan, he could so totally have forgotten about Dmitry, when only that very morning, just a few hours before, he had intended to seek him out immediately and not to rest without having done so, even if it meant that he could not return to the monastery that night.
Discussion Prompts:
- This chapter was huge! How did you find this chapter? Were you engaged throughout, just plowing your way through it, or perhaps felt something else that you would like to share?
- The last line of our previous chapter reads: “That way it will be shorter and not so tedious, although of course, I repeat, Alyosha took many things from previous conversations and interwove them.” Do feel any sort of betrayal at the shorter and not so tedious part? I guess question 1 and 2 are a sort of combo.
- Any thoughts on the (a) Starets Zosima’s elder brother section? What did you make of this part?
- How about the (b) The Holy Scriptures in the life of Father Zosima section? Any takeaways from this section?
- The (c) Recollections from Starets Zosima’s youth, before he became a monk. The duel section? Any thoughts on this part?
- And finally, the (d) The mysterious visitor section. What did you think of this tale?
- Did you have a favorite story out of these? A least favorite? Do any of them seem more memorable to you?
- After the disclaimer in the previous chapter that this probably wasn’t really Zosima’s final conversation, but an added to remembering of it from Alyosha and perhaps others, how do you view these stories in retrospect? Are these stories really Zosima’s, just not from his final conversation? An embellished version of them? Did you take them as gospel from a dying holy man? Are you questioning their authenticity after the fact?
- Please feel free to share any other thoughts you may have on this chapter, or how all of this ties into the book as well. The prompts are just meant as simple conversation starters, but if you have something else you’d like to add to the conversation, you are always welcome to do so.
Links:
Last Line:
> As for God’s servant Mikhail, I remember him constantly in my prayers, even unto this day.
Discussion Prompts:
- What did you make of this interaction between Ivan and Smerdyakov?
- What is Smerdyakov up to? Do you think he’s genuinely concerned and is trying to warn Ivan? Is he just messing with Ivan or do you think he’s masterminded some plan he’s trying to put into action?
- Did anything stand out to you over the course of this chapter?
- Is there anything else you’d like to discuss from this chapter?
Links:
Last Line:
> His movements as he walked were erratic.
Discussion Prompts:
- What did you think of how this chapter built up the suspense?
- What did you think of the choice to interrupt the narrative when Dimitri picked up the pestle and skip forward to him making his escape?
- Did you expect Grigory to appear or was it a surprise?
- Did you expect Dimitri to sink this low, or were you hoping something would change his mind?
- Do you think Dmitri has murdered both Grigory and Fyodor, just Grigory or just Fyodor?
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Final Line:
> Mitya left him, and ran like a madman to Fenya.
Discussion Prompts:
- We get to see another side of Smerdyakov, what impression did this chapter have on your opinion of him?
- The girl calls Smerdyakov, Pavel Fyodorovich. Is this a clue to his parentage, or is it an indication that he prefers Fyodor to Grigory?
- Smerdyakov does not have a good impression of Dmitri. Is this surprising to you or not?
- Smerdyakov hints that Dmitri's landlord is covering for him, and he is not at the inn with Ivan. What could Dmitri be doing?
- Would you like to jam with Smerdyakov? What other characters could join him in the town band?
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Final Line:
> A minute later Alyosha was sitting beside his brother. Ivan was alone dining.
Discussion Prompts:
- This was a more light-hearted chapter than most. Did you like this shift in tone, or was it jarring?
- We get to see more of Lise and Mrs Khokhlakova. What impression did they make on you? Did you see any new side to their characters?
- What did you think of Lise's awkward attempts to charm Alyosha? Sweet or annoying?
- Alyosha says he intends to marry Lise after finishing his studies. Were you surprised by his forwardness?
- Mrs. Khokhlakova has some interesting things to say about Katerina and Ivan - thoughts?
Links:
Final Line:
>She loves your brother, Ivan, and she is doing her utmost to persuade herself she loves your brother, Dmitri. It’s appalling! I’ll go in with you, and if they don’t turn me out, I’ll stay to the end.”
