Yeah, so this is based on a weird dream I had last night where I was in a science class and made whipped cheese. But I woke up and wondered...would it work?
I like using sodium citrate to make cheese sauces, and usually I just use water or milk as the liquid component. Of course, depending on the ratio of liquid to cheese, you can affect the thickness of the final sauce. So what if you used heavy cream, let it cool, and then tried to whip it in a mixture? Would it work? Obviously the liquid to cheese ratio would need to be enough so that the sauce was still thin and runny when cold.
I don't even know what application I would want whipped cheese for, but would this be at all possible? Or is this just a weird dream I had?
I've been hit or miss when using Sodium Citrate to make cheese dip.
I used preshredded cheese package from the grocery store and added about a teaspoon for a fist full of shredded cheese, then add about 4 tablespoons of heavy cream on top.
These are rough estimates because I don't measure exactly.
Initially, when I did it, it came about perfect...silky smooth.
Lately, it's been grainy... like a little gritty.
I'm not sure what's different... maybe shredded sharp cheddar vs a blend of colby jack might be the difference.
However, I'm also wondering if the anti-caking filters in the prepackaged cheeses are making a difference.
Any ideas, insights or suggestions?
Did I put too much Sodium Citrate? (what's the effect of putting too much?)
Thank you in advance, my peeps.
I've used sodium citrate before for Mac and cheese and making my own cheese slices as per Modernist Cuisine as well as a few cheese sauces. I notice that whenever I get Qdoba queso, even when it's cooled down, if still maintains somewhat of a sauce like viscosity vs more congealed when I do it.
Most of the time I've used citrate, I use either 3% or 4% and about 90-100% liquid to cheese by weight.
I was just curious, what effect would the increase/decrease of the sodium citrate % have. I assume as I move closer to 0, it'll separate and not melt a well but what happens if I go to 5%? 7%? Do you start to taste it at a point? Does it have diminished effects after a certain point?
Lastly, would an increase get me closer to maintaining that cheese sauce consistency a bit more as it cools?
I ordered a bag of sodium citrate to use for cheese sauces, but it won’t arrive for a few days and I’m desperate for some mac and cheese. I know Kraft singles contain sodium citrate, so would I be able to replicate its emulsifying effect to a degree by just throwing a slice or two in with the rest of my cheese? Has anyone here ever tried doing so?
Edit: Clearly the answer is a resounding “Yes!” and my wasabi crab mac and cheese in now in the oven. Thanks gang
I'm doing the sodium citrate cheese sauce thing, and have a few chemistry questions I would love cleared up if possible. One has to do with the synthesis of the salt using citric acid, and the others have to do with the actual function of the sodium citrate in the sauce. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help out.
I've read multiple discussions where people describe how to synthesize the salt using citric acid and sodium bicarbonate. In my mind (which, mind you has a very basic understanding of chemistry) I don't see why I couldn't just mix a solution of citric acid with dissolved sodium chloride. Since sodium citrate is less soluble than NaCl, is there any reason why it wouldn't simply precipitate out of solution? Any further explanation of the synthesis of sodium citrate (why it works with the bicarb and why my method doesn't) would be greatly appreciated.
Regarding the actual chemical process going on in the sauce, I've been able to find three explanations on the internet so far - one is that the sodium citrate "allows the proteins in the cheese to be more soluble without lowering the pH of the sauce" - I've already tried using citric acid on its own in the sauce, which obviously didn't work. Does this explanation imply that while citric acid does make the proteins more soluble, the acidity causes it to curdle, undoing the solubility of the proteins? Either way, I don't really understand what they're saying and would love it if someone could elaborate.
The second explanation I've seen is that calcium helps the proteins to clump up in a regular melted cheese sauce, and so the sodium takes the place of the calcium, allowing the network of proteins to spread out into the sauce. Obviously this begs the question: why is sodium citrate even necessary if it's just sodium replacing calcium in the proteins?
The third thing I've read is that when you heat up a sauce, the emulsifying proteins denature, and so by adding in a new emulsifying agent, we can have a melted emulsified product. This does make sense, but I've heard from too many sources I trust that proteins are still involved in the sauce and aren't all denatured, so I'm inclined to believe this is an oversimplified explanation. If anyone could offer a more in depth explanation of the chemistry going on here, that would be a huge help.
Thanks again!
I've been recently playing around with trying to get this Mac and cheese recipe right. I know the goal in using sodium citrate is to create a cheese sauce that maintains it's "meltyness"/stability so I can produce a creamy Mac and cheese but I've tried to make this recipe 3 times now and every time it's a very congealed cheese sauce.
I followed the modernist cuisine recipe relatively closely and used 80% of the cheese weight in milk and 4% sodium citrate. So for this recipe, it was 185g of Liquid (half water, half 1% milk), 350g of cheese and 4% citrate.
I brought the milk and sodium citrate to a simmer and while simmering added cheese in batches and blended with an immersion blender. It was almost coagulating as I was mixing it with the pasta and after following instructions to bake it for 15-20 min it was very dried out
I've noticed that this has been happening most of the time when I use sodum citrite to make cheese sauces, they rarely stay saucy for very long. My gf said to me "why doesn't it keep it's consistency like the cheese sauce at taco dive" and that's when it hit me that i may be doing something wrong.
Is there something wrong with my process? any help would be appreciated!
I love adding sodium citrate to cheese to give it that melty, smooth texture. But I'm pretty bad at translating some recipes to other recipes. I know you need a fairly precise ratio of sodium citrate:liquid:cheese, but I don't really understand what it is. I'd like to add it to a more complex mac and cheese recipe. Does anyone know a good way to figure this out? Would you count cream as a liquid in this case, or just water?
My department currently has a blue top tubes (used for coagulation studies and d-dimers) shortage that's been going on for a few weeks. Apparently it's international. Has your place experienced this too? I find myself even more conflicted when asking for d-dimers now, as if we needed more trouble with EP diagnosis/exclusion.
Sodium citrate is a food preservative derived from citric acid. Among other things, it is used in flavoring Kool-Aid and an emulsifier in cheese. Adding it to block cheese before melting will make it melt all creamy like as opposed to the mess of gunk and grease you’re liable to get otherwise.
I could buy it online but I prefer to buy this sort of thing locally. I’m not sure if it would be with the spices or in the supplement, but I just checked Common Market and Wegman’s and didn’t find it there. Maybe I didn’t look hard enough. Anyone else who knows what I’m talking about seen it?
Hello, I am not a food scientist and I am looking for help.
I want to create a good cacio e pepe. I know that I can use sodium citrate for a non-aged cheese pretty well. But cacio e pepe needs parmesan and/or pecorino (depending of who you ask).
Sodium citrate does not work well with aged cheese. So the cheese curdles (I know I tested it).
I saw some videos where the the chef is not adding very hot water in the cheese and then goes on to explain that high temperature will make the cheese curdle. But I want to make a bulletproof cacio e pepe sauce.
So my questions are these:
- At what temperature will the cheese start to curdle?
- Isn't curdling the coagulation of protein with calcium ions? If it is, then why sodium citrate does not work?
- Is there something we can do in order to fix this? Add some kind of extra buffering or something else that will do something?
I plan on trying smoked queso for the break. Ive seen several post about using Sodom citrate with regular cheese (not using Velveeta) to gelp with the emulsifying of the cheese. Any one use something besides that? Lemon juice, citric acid?
Recently started meds and I know I need to watch out for potassium on Spiro but recently been drinking diet pepsi and lucazade (1 litre a day) and just found out it contains Potassium Sorbate and Sodium Citrate. Should I stop drinking them, should I be worried?
Or is it just me?
I’m planning to make Beef Stroganoff and it is going to need to travel and be reheated. Would there be any benefit to adding an undetermined amount of sodium citrate to the sauce to prevent the sour cream from curdling? Or am I overthinking this and completely off the mark? Adding it to the plated dish is a possibility, but it seems like it would be easier to get the seasoning right if I could find another way. Thanks for your input.
Is there a good free resource to describe and compare the flavorings and effects of these ingredients?
Application: powdered drink mix.
From what I can tell sodium citrate is the key to processed American cheese’s signature meltiness.
If one were to the incorporate sodium citrate into the initial cheese making process, would it render a product approaching the kind of meltiness Kraft singles achieve, without requiring further processing?
My hospital is experiencing a sodium citrate tube shortage. Anyone know what’s happening with that?
Looking to make some melty cheese sauce and I don't want to order from Amazon. Already checked Barbur World Foods and the Kosher Safeway.
Hey there-
Sodium Citrate has become part of my regular culinary arsenal when making cheese sauces. I'm curious if anyone on here has any other applications in the kitchen for Sodium Citrate. I think the stuff is amazing, and would like to know how others like to use it as well. Thanks!
I learned recently you can use sodium citrate to get a velveeta type consistency in mac and cheese, and I want to try it out but want to make sure I understand properly first if anyone who is experienced can help!
if you use sodium citrate, does that mean you don't make a roux?
I have documented my sodium citrate cheese sauce experiments twice before, discussing basic sauces and ratios and using sodium citrate to create your own processed cheeses. Now, I’m back for a third round to discuss my newest cheese sauce exploration: using sodium citrate or other emulsifiers already present in existing foods to create sauces.
Sodium citrate is pretty cheap on Amazon. I bought a pound of it for $10 well over a year ago — enough to create 50 pounds of cheese sauce — and I haven’t even gone through half of it. For those with cheese sauce emergencies that can’t wait for the Amazon delivery van, the following powder-free options might just save the day.
Velveeta Cheese Sauce
For the longest time, I’ve been wanting to test out Velveeta. It is chock full of emulsifiers to keep it silky smooth. Since my cheese sauces only use 2% sodium citrate by weight, I figured Velveeta would have enough emulsifiers to allow for extra cheese without losing the smoothness. Still, I didn’t feel like buying a whole block of the stuff but my local dollar store offered another solution.
I got a 4-ounce bag of Velveeta Jalapeño Cheese Sauce to test my theory. Instead of sodium citrate, it uses sodium and potassium phosphate as emulsifiers. I heated it and added 6 ounces of shredded Mexican cheese blend (cheap cheese with cheap fake cheese). Once the cheese melted, it formed a thick sauce that solidified into a processed cheese at room temps. A little water would have thinned the sauce and I probably could have added more cheese, but I had another experiment to conduct and only so much cheap cheese on hand.
The taste was fine with only one issue. The little packet of Velveeta sauce had a whopping 1420mg of sodium in only 4 ounces. The resulting processed cheese I made from it was still too salty for my taste. More cheese would have helped to mitigate that, same with a splash of acid.
Club Soda
If you have ever looked at the ingredient list on a bottle of club soda, you’d see two things: water and sodium citrate. With my regular sauces, I’m careful to measure the exact amount of sodium citrate I use in ratio to the other ingredients. I wasn’t sure if there’d be enough of it in club soda to create a sauce.
For this experiment, I started with a single ounce o
... keep reading on reddit ➡
Hello all.
Does Sodium Citrate Buffer have to be heated to 95*C?
I used for water bath for unmasking FFPE Tissue. "CD3 stain on Tonsil".
It didn't work ;/ . But I noticed the set temp was only 75*C? Maybe the crosslinks didn't unmask at the temperature????
Help :(
