Prosperity theology Puns

Wikipedia: "that financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one's material wealth."

As I begin my final year at seminary, I find that conversations immediately gather around the broad topic of liberation theology, and the Christian God being the liberator first and foremost of the poor and the oppressed - perhaps even taking preference towards who we designate as oppressed.

I take issue with several facets of this interpretive mode, and the (in my book, unbiblical) hermeneutic that is used by most liberation theologians. As I began to think about the discourse that has been engineered around this topic, with its social, political, and theological implications, I was reminded of another (in)famous theology in the prosperity or health and wealth gospel.

I am concerned with the fixation (in both of these theologies) on social, financial, economic and political placement. I fear that none of these factors -thankfully - have any bearing on our place in God through Christ.

I am interested in hearing any thoughts on this, as in the academic environment I’m in, liberation theology is hardly criticized and the prosperity gospel (rightly) never fails to be condemned.

How did we get from a man who preached giving away all that you have including giving to the person that steals from you, to a very popular belief today that if you are rich and successful, then God is rewarding you?

I don’t know if anyone else feels the same as me, but this is a vent/rant. And encouragement too. Hopefully mods don’t remove this, I pray I’m not breaking any rules.

But I’m sick of prosperity gospel. I hate it. I don’t know if this is normal - to have that much anger towards it. I see it everywhere. I follow many Christian accounts on Instagram that are biblically sound, but in the explore page I still get posts like “God is giving you a blessing this week, claim your blessing by commenting amen!” And all these brainless idiots commenting “amen 🙏🏽❤️” not knowing what they’re even agreeing to. Sure, I feel bad for them that they’re that deceived, it’s quite sad - but I’m also angry, that people actually run accounts preaching this sort of nonsense. Like why? How dare they twist the gospel of Jesus, omit His words of denying riches and materialistic stuff, how dare they add stuff to the Bible. I’m very disappointed with these pastors (i.e. Joel osteen, Kenneth Copeland, the whole word of faith movement’s theology I just despise).

I also have negative personal experiences with it, I’m a major overthinker especially when it comes to faith. That’s Satan’s favorite spot to attack me, to grab me by the ankles and bring me down with doubts of salvation and faith. And guess what? Prosperity gospel did a great job of doing that. I think it might be Satan’s work. Not sure if I should use the word “demonic” because it’s a strong word, but I feel an urge to. Anyways. I was taught that if I did not receive physical healing or financial prosperity, that my “faith wasn’t strong enough”. This led me to doubt a lot, encouraging thoughts such as:

• “is my faith good/strong enough?”
• “am I really saved?”
• “what if I’m not saved and I’m going to hell”
• “what if God hates me so He won’t prosper me”

Don’t get me wrong, I believe God is a healer. Jesus is amazing, He’s better than any dude with an MD in a clinic. One time, I had a bad nosebleed from dropping my phone on my face, all I said was “Lord have mercy” and it stopped immediately. Another time I had horrible stomach pain, God helped me to go sleep and I woke up feeling great! So yes, I agree God heals. But the Bible never says that God guarantees healing for people, nor does it say it’s God’s will for every person to be healed of their physical/mental illness. I have seen these Word of Faith and prosperity preachers take numerous verses out of context and twist them to their ideology. It pisses me off. Like Is

In reading about what some consider the Trump cult of personality, I keep seeing responses citing prosperity mega churches as influencers in creating audiences that value Trump or other charismatics over logic. Is there a connection, and if so, what is the pattern?

Giving that modern evangelism heavily focuses on preaching prosperity to it's followers and also historically the Catholic Church has been know to align its institutions with prospering monarchies as a means to acquire wealth and influence. Do these acts by these Christian institutions expose a dark side of Christianity or does it betray the actual teachings of the ideology. PS I wasn't born a Christian but live in a society that is heavily influenced by Christianity.

DON'T believe me. Just examine the known facts and connect the dots for yourself:

Have you noticed the explosive growth of ostensibly but not actually Xtian congregations that leverage so-called "prosperity theology" to drive their flocks to get wealthy and tithe like mad? Think Kenneth Copeland, Paula White, Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer right off the bat.

Some (many? most?) of those churches do seem to be set up like very aggressively recruiting, MLMs operating like this.

I know a devoted follower of Meyer who is a rabid alt righter. And my late natal mother and her husband -- both pretty big players in conservative politics in California's WASP-dominated OC -- were big fans of (and major donors to) Robert Schuller's "prosperity gospel" at the Crystal Cathedral there.

At this point, may I say that I am NOT hostile to religion in general or legitimate Christianity in particular. Religion serves a powerful and necessary social organization function in a world full of humans who are still just animals that can talk.

BUT... Dig around on that first Wikipedia link above. One may ultimately find themselves at Nancy MacLean's, Jane Mayer's and Kevin Phillips's published doorsteps (see below) on the long gestation of the alt right movement and how it seems to have been -- at least in significant part -- built on the back of the resurgence of Pentecostalism in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Moreover, as the poor-left-empowering Roman Catholic church's own cultic pyramid began to cave in during the same period.

See The Political Purpose of Evangelical Totalism in not-moses's reply to the OP on that reddit thread.

Many of the more evangelical, fundamentally Pentecostal (in not-moses's reply to the OP on that thread) -- e.g.: the Assemblies of God, Calvary Chapel -- churches, along with those of the Southern Baptist Convention appear to have very dense (and pretty obvious) connections with alt right causes a

As far as I know, my aunt and grandfather have always been Christian, but since my grandmother passed last year, they’ve really doubled down on prosperity theology. I’m not sure how long they’ve been into it and Osteen, but recently it’s lost my aunt her job and gotten them in some financial difficulties to the point they may have to sell their house. My grandfather was previously into get-rich-quick methods and is something of a treasure hunter on the beach, believing that if he shares the Gospel with enough people, he’ll finally strike it rich. Since things are not going well for them, they think God is punishing them.

My parents, brother, and I are the only other family they have, so aside from us, they really don’t have anyone to tell them otherwise. My parents tried to push back a bit on their thinking but was given a “you just don’t understand” answer, with the implication being they were in a more religious/enlightened place. My parents are pretty non-confrontational though, so they’re really just ignoring them more than anything.

They’re by no means hateful people, but they are very misguided and are straining relationships.

I don’t really know where to start the discussion with them or how. They know enough scripture to be dangerous, so any resources to prepare for this would also be really helpful. If anyone has any personal experience with this, I'd also love to hear it. Thanks everyone.

Last winter it came to light that my parish was struggling financially, badly. As far as I aware, it wasn't close to a foreclosure (I think we were behind on the building's mortgage) or anything, but we were very short on budget. From what they said, it seemed like they were pushing it under the rug for a few years and had reached a point where they could no longer do that. I don't know if it was that we bit off more than we could chew or what actually caused the problem initially, but it came across as managed badly and they found themselves in a bind.

Anyway, for about the last year, especially since winter, it seemed like a majority of homilies from our priest or parishioner were about giving in one way or another (granted, I temporarily moved over the summer so I attended a different parish), even making obscure connections to the weekly readings. It got to the point I considered leaving it because I got tired of it.

Today was our pledge Sunday, where people make their financial pledge for the upcoming year, so this kind of came back up in the past couple of weeks. However, last week my priest almost seemed to say that the greatest duty for Christians is to give their time, talent, and money to the church. There's been several times where in both his homilies about giving, and other's kind of testimony that seemed to flirt with prosperity theology. It's been implied, heavily, but never explicitly that the more faithful and dedicated you are to giving financially, the more that God will bless you financially and provide for your needs and some wants.

This passage is often quoted by prosperity preachers like Joyce Meyer and Dave Ramsey to say that if you give money to God/use money for God you will be rewarded in this life with money.

First the text from Mark 10:(BTW this is immediately after Jesus tells a man he must sell everything to gain eternal life, and how hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom!)

>28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

>29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Okay so here is what we know: The disciples literally did leave their families and everything they knew to follow Jesus. Did they end up 100 times richer in a Dave Ramsey sense of wealth building? Heavens no! We know from history that the disciples led lives more or less improvished and were all(except John) eventually brutally murdered for their faith! They followed the example of their Lord and took up their crosses and followed Him.

Here is what I think Jesus is saying: if you give up your blood family, and houses and land and everything for Jesus, you will get all those needs met in community with other Christians. Read the description of this community in Acts 2:42-47 and Acts 4:32-35. The community of believers lived together like family and shared everything so that none had need. Sharing that stuff and treating everyone in the community like brothers and sisters is 100 times better than keeping your stuff to yourself and only sticking to blood relatives. It's not about God rewarding people with cars and houses on this side of heaven! It's something much better than that! The joy of living in community with believers now and eternal life in the age to come!

I know what other subs would say and I'm curious about your perspective. What is your view on prosperity gospel? How does that relate to the LDS Church and its leaders teachings?

Additionally, how do you feel about perceived emphasis on money within the church, by insiders and those without?

I'm interested in a pretty open ended discussion, probably one-way (your comments, I have no plan on responding in any other manner than more questions)

I don’t know if anyone else feels the same as me, but this is a vent/rant. And encouragement too. Hopefully mods don’t remove this, I pray I’m not breaking any rules.

But I’m sick of prosperity gospel. I hate it. I don’t know if this is normal - to have that much anger towards it. I see it everywhere. I follow many Christian accounts on Instagram that are biblically sound, but in the explore page I still get posts like “God is giving you a blessing this week, claim your blessing by commenting amen!” And all these brainless idiots commenting “amen 🙏🏽❤️” not knowing what they’re even agreeing to. Sure, I feel bad for them that they’re that deceived, it’s quite sad - but I’m also angry, that people actually run accounts preaching this sort of nonsense. Like why? How dare they twist the gospel of Jesus, omit His words of denying riches and materialistic stuff, how dare they add stuff to the Bible. I’m very disappointed with these pastors (i.e. Joel osteen, Kenneth Copeland, the whole word of faith movement’s theology I just despise).

I also have negative personal experiences with it, I’m a major overthinker especially when it comes to faith. That’s Satan’s favorite spot to attack me, to grab me by the ankles and bring me down with doubts of salvation and faith. And guess what? Prosperity gospel did a great job of doing that. I think it might be Satan’s work. Not sure if I should use the word “demonic” because it’s a strong word, but I feel an urge to. Anyways. I was taught that if I did not receive physical healing or financial prosperity, that my “faith wasn’t strong enough”. This led me to doubt a lot, encouraging thoughts such as:

• “is my faith good/strong enough?”
• “am I really saved?”
• “what if I’m not saved and I’m going to hell”
• “what if God hates me so He won’t prosper me”

Don’t get me wrong, I believe God is a healer. Jesus is amazing, He’s better than any dude with an MD in a clinic. One time, I had a bad nosebleed from dropping my phone on my face, all I said was “Lord have mercy” and it stopped immediately. Another time I had horrible stomach pain, God helped me to go sleep and I woke up feeling great! So yes, I agree God heals. But the Bible never says that God guarantees healing for people, nor does it say it’s God’s will for every person to be healed of their physical/mental illness. I have seen these Word of Faith and prosperity preachers take numerous verses out of context and twist them to their ideology. It pisses me off. Like Is