https://preview.redd.it/mlje1h0m5ue51.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=25387b3f5966fc05e44bf704d4941a2b89615064
G25 coordinates: RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754
The Crimean ambassadors had been sent forth to the three hordes in the east, attempting to woo them into an alliance, of the three however, only the Great Horde had been willing without condition. The Great Horde had suffered a defeat three years earlier at the hands of the Nogai, in a bloody affair that left both hordes greatly weakened.
Seeing an opportunity to regain strength, Sheikh Ahmed of the Great Horde agreed to the Crimean terms, and with this the Crimeans sent forth a great force across the plains eastward, led by the brother of Khan Menli, Mehmed, and the Khan's second son, Bahadur Giray. They marched slowly, with a force of 19,000 men, of which 6,500 were infantry.
The scouts of the Astrakhan were quick to see this, and reported back to Khan Abdal-Karim both the Crimean movements and that the Great Horde was rallying itβs men to Ahmedβs banner. Abdal-Karim was aware of the Crimeans' attempts to woo the hordes, and did not know who, if any, had sided with the Ottomanβs dogs. Abdal-Karim had been preparing to attack the Great Horde that summer anyway, and so he quickly began rallying his troops in case of an attack by the Crimeans. He too sent word to the Nogai, though they were his rivals, a surprise attack by the Crimeans might see them crushed, and Astrakhan would surely be next.
The Nogai in turn were already rallying, their scouts had reported Ahmedβs men rallying already, and they feared for an attack to avenge the past battle. When word of Crimeaβs army marching reached them however, Biy Musa too was greatly concerned. He quickly returned word to Astrakhan, swearing by his honour that no deal had been made with the Crimeans, and asked for support should the Crimeans and Great Horde march together. To this Abdal-Karim agreed, asking the same of Nogai.
Abdal-Karim, however true to his word as he was, remained unconvinced of Nogaiβs claim, though he found them more likely than that the Crimeanβs had sided with Nogai. Though yet the Crimeanβs may have made no deal, and instead were preparing to march on the Great Horde, and so for now he remained in the south, preparing his men.
But a deal had been made, and so as the Crimeanβs entered Great Horde territory they saw no resistance, and before long marched towards Nogai. The Great Horde joined their ranks, swelling the number of horsemen to 18,500. The Great Horde travelled several miles south of the Crimeans, as the vast number of horses were
... keep reading on reddit β‘If I look at all the nomadic people who passed through the southern Ukraine horse nomad highway I only see people going either South towards Valacchia and the Balkans (pechengs, bulgars) or crossing the carpatians to pannonia (Huns, Avars, Hungarians, Mongol raids) while no one kept North of the mountains and followed the plain to settle in what is now southern Poland.
Why? Especially crossing the carpatians mountains seems to me "less natural" for a nomadic horse riding people than just keeping on flat terrain and following rivers.
I recently came across these two quotes:
β[Scythians eat the] half-raw flesh of any kind of animal whatever, which they put between their thighs and the backs of their horses, and thus warm it a little.β - Ammianus Marcellinus (4th C.)
βWhen travelling they (The Nogays) put a piece of meat under their saddles. From the heat thus produced the blood [in the meat] somehow evaporates. Then they take it out and eat it.β - Abu Bakr b. Bahram al-Dimashqi (17th C.)
Is there any truth to these claims 13 centuries apart?
I'm curious about steppe developments after dispersals in the 4th and 3rd millennium BC but before the arrival of Iranic-speakers in the 2nd millennium BC. Who were the last of the Yamnaya/Catacomb people? How similar was their lifestyle to that of their forebears on the same steppe a thousand years before? In the absence of linguistic evidence, do we have any idea what their language may have sounded like ca. 1800 BC?
Mediterranean sea has Historically given rise to great civilizations and served as the lifeblood of the Roman Empire, earning the name "The Roman Lake".
In an ATL, have the Pontic Sea (Currently Black Sea) and the Caspian Sea to get the same status. That is, have a civilization/empire linked to the ones on the Southern Coast (Any, Persian, Armenian, Roman, Hurrian, Urartu, Georgian, Slavic, Egyptian, Mitanni, Hittite, etc) to develop and conquer the Pontic Caspian steppe. Graeco or Romano Scythian Empire would be interesting. Or an Achaemenid empire conquering the Pontic Caspian Steppe is also okay. Or any Bronze Age Civilization linked to the Caucasian/Anatolian or Greek Civilizations.
The next question is about protecting the Empire in the Steppe. There are a few solutions. Walling like China could be a later resort. At first these empires could develop trade strategies to neutralize the Steppe warlike tribes. The first batch who establish the Civilizations could be Scythians influenced by the Greeks and Achaemenids or the Romans. Eventually, it spreads making both Pontic and Caspian seas like the Roman lake. What effects would this have?
Have you ever played EUIV and witnessed a random country invading much of Northern Caucasus and the regions above the Caspian Sea from the Black Sea?
Why would, say, the Ottomans, invade this region? Why would the Mughals (instead of rushing to the richer provinces of the Middle East) do so? Why would a strong and restored Byzantium or a mighty independent Sweden?
I know these regions are relatively cheap to conquer and easy to administrate, but doesn't the concomitant border gore annoys you guys? I also find it really incoherent to see an Ottoman dominance of the southern Russian lands of the Don river, such as Tartaria, Abecasia etc.
If it does bother you also, what could be made in the game to turn it more historically accurate?
CK2 makes a nomadic mechanic. It is frustrating for non-horde invaders, but prevents these territories from being annexed by other polities than turkic-mongolian invaders, which is appropriate.
Does the art at Bhimbetka Caves imply that domestication of horses arrived in India way before it did on the Pontic Steppes?
If you see the art here, you'll see men on horseback wielding weapons. This art is upwards 30,000 years in age, but some of it is much newer. I have no idea how old this image of men on horseback is.
However, even if it's older than 5,000 it would imply that South Asia is one of the first places to have domesticated horses.
Why isn't this image not raising doubts about the current view of horse domestication in the Pontic Steppes?
Correct me if Iβm wrong, but it seems that until the introduction of gunpowder, ancient and medieval settled societies were never able to invade and conquer the steppe, which was inhabited by powerful horse archer tribes. The Persians under Darius I invaded Scythia and got as far as the Volga River, but they failed. The Chinese were never able to completely pacify the nomadic tribes north of them, and the Greeks and the Romans were never able to conquer the tribes north of the Black Sea. So how the hell did the Goths manage to conquer most of the Pontic Steppe (until the Huns of course)? I assume like most Germanic tribes they initially consisted of mostly infantry troops. Did they just adapt to the steppe way of life, and in turn did their culture reflect that of the other nomadic tribes around them? Or did they divide and conquer and manipulate the rival steppe tribes against each other? I just have a hard time seeing Germanic warriors, as badass as they were, defeating fast moving steppe tribes on their own turf. Also any books suggestions on the Goths would be awesome.
Does the art at Bhimbetka Caves imply that domestication of horses arrived in India way before it did on the Pontic Steppes?
If you see the art here, you'll see men on horseback wielding weapons. This art is upwards 30,000 years in age, but some of it is much newer. I have no idea how old this image of men on horseback is.
However, even if it's older than 5,000 it would imply that South Asia is one of the first places to have domesticated horses.
Why isn't this image not raising doubts about the current view of horse domestication in the Pontic Steppes?
