Using proximal / obviative pronouns as logophors?

Hello! (This isn't a conlang presentation but rather a wordy question with examples showing my thought process in trying to understand the fusion of these two topics. In short: is it feasible?)

*proximate / obviative (my mistake in the title)

---------------

I've been experimenting with direct-inverse marking to distinguish between proximate and obviative pronouns in the 2nd and 3rd persons, (some influence from a few Nilo-Saharan languages in marking the 2nd person obviative in addition to 3rd).

I've also been investigating logophoricty in some West African languages, with a specialized set of pronouns for different referents than the speaker in indirect discourse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(*update: I now see that I had this idea backwards. In languages with logophoricity, logophors refer to the quoted speaker, and regular pronouns refer to a different referent. Thus, logophors are often reflexive. I'll leave the original post unedited to highlight my errors).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Examples: ("that" omitted for brevity).
"He said he knew it'd happen." He said he himself knew.
"He said he.(different) knew it'd happen." He said [some other guy] knew.
Or when someone's scolding two brothers, "You said you'd be careful!" Both scolded as a group using 2nd person plural ~ "Y'all said it."
"You said you(prox/obv.)'d be careful!" Where proximate could refer to scolding the elder brother, and obviative the younger. ~ "You(specific) said it."

With more than two people involved, parents using the proximate could refer to the eldest child by default, and obviative for all ages below. Or for groups in general, the natural leader of the group vs. followers.

Would it be possible to use proximate and obviative forms as logophors? Rather than just animacy, to distinguish between age, status, perceived importance, etc. of the referents in indirect speech?

Proximate Logophoric He said he(different) knew Someone said the king knew
Obviative Logophoric He said he(different) knew Someone said the peasant knew
Proximate Reflexive He said he himself knew The king himself said he knew
Obviative Reflexive He said he himself knew The peasant himself said he knew

However, I've also wanted to make a topic-prominent language, so maybe the topic could be proximate and the focus be in the obviative? I'm unsure.

Inverse marking:

|||| |:-|:-

... keep reading on reddit ➑

πŸ‘︎ 27
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Quellant
πŸ“…︎ Sep 05 2018
🚨︎ report
Russia, China beating US in β€˜gray-zone’ warfare: Blackwater founder argues that America needs unconventional hybrid strategies to obviate big wars, and addresses the morality of the mercenary asiatimes.com/2021/12/rus…
πŸ‘︎ 18
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Strongbow85
πŸ“…︎ Dec 31 2021
🚨︎ report
Omicron to End Pandemic by February -- Obviating Mandates /r/conspiracy/comments/rz…
πŸ‘︎ 5
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/goodenoug4now
πŸ“…︎ Jan 09 2022
🚨︎ report
Omicron to End Pandemic by February -- Obviating Mandates /r/conspiracy/comments/rz…
πŸ‘︎ 4
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/goodenoug4now
πŸ“…︎ Jan 09 2022
🚨︎ report
"The decency of an employer doesn’t obviate the need for a union. Even a nice monarchy is still an unsettling prospect." prospect.org/labor/starbu…
πŸ‘︎ 94
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ“…︎ Nov 23 2021
🚨︎ report
Bitcoin obviates the need for any trusted third-party and empowers an individual with absolute freedom over their money, which is probably biggest real world super-power one could have in our life times. #wazirxwarriors #indiawantscrypto
πŸ‘︎ 7
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/updates4_life
πŸ“…︎ Jul 20 2021
🚨︎ report
first person obviate adjective

bottom text

πŸ‘︎ 12
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Jan_wija
πŸ“…︎ Jun 29 2021
🚨︎ report
Does POS and sharding obviate layer 2 solutions?

The utility of layer 2 solutions in scaling ETH in its current iteration is obvious. But once ETH transitions to POS and sharding is possible, will there still be a role for layer 2 solutions (which seem to be mostly about scaling)?

On a related question, is there a good resource comparing the various layer 2 solutions?

πŸ‘︎ 3
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ“…︎ Aug 07 2021
🚨︎ report
Just my own theory, but oncoming events may obviate the need for apes to take more action than they already are.

TL;DR at bottom.

Apes are trying to crash the manipulated market by removing enough physical that it can't continue.

Meanwhile investors/speculators are out there treating Paper Silver as if it was Physical Silver in the belief that they can trade their paper for physical either at any time, or at a set time soon to arrive.

In the additional meanwhile, the Basel III freight train is barreling down the tracks -- next stop June 28 for the EU, which includes some number of bullion banks in the LBMA and COMEX.

Basel III makes paper silver either unprofitable, or completely out of the question, meaning that a lot of unallocated silver holders are also now out in the cold.

This means that for those of them who want to maintain exposure to silver prices there are 2 options:

  1. Buy physical -- stressing the limited supply even further.

  2. Buy silver ETFs to track the price -- many of whom will have to buy physical due to no easy paper for them any longer either. 100% silver ETFs also either buy remaining physical, or stop issuing units.

TL;DR Basel III may lead to a lot of paper silver holders suddenly having no option but to invest in a very limited supply of physical silver if they want to remain in silver at all.

πŸ‘︎ 65
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/NCCI70I
πŸ“…︎ Jun 06 2021
🚨︎ report
South African Covid variant appears to β€˜obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says cnbc.com/2021/01/05/south…
πŸ‘︎ 142
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Magnicello
πŸ“…︎ Jan 06 2021
🚨︎ report
Is is incorrect/unnatural to mark the proximate and not the obviate?

In my language SacfΓ«rh Narastes there is a system of obviation, and I was wondering whether it was an odd choice to mark the proximate as I know that many languages mark the obviate. It just didn’t seem like it made logical sense to me, because the whole point of having this system is to background things, so why give it its own special morphology?

That’s how I thought anyway, someone more knowledgeable please tell me I’m wrong lmao

πŸ‘︎ 8
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Star_Lang5571
πŸ“…︎ Jun 03 2021
🚨︎ report
This pic of my sister and nephew i took today. Obviate the cars tho
πŸ‘︎ 232
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/albert9lopez
πŸ“…︎ Feb 27 2021
🚨︎ report
South African Covid variant appears to β€˜obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/05/s…
πŸ‘︎ 145
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/zsalzman12
πŸ“…︎ Jan 06 2021
🚨︎ report
"When we see stupidity, we should not obviate this stupidity; For this is only a more sophisticated stupidity." - Fredrick Nietzche
πŸ‘︎ 5
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/LadenStarfish
πŸ“…︎ Jun 27 2021
🚨︎ report
Vaccine Passports Are a Terrible Idea. They would extend the miseries of COVID well into a time when the vaccine has largely obviated them. nationalreview.com/2021/0…
πŸ‘︎ 15
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Beliavsky
πŸ“…︎ Mar 09 2021
🚨︎ report
Do flight control wads obviate the need for a choked barrel?
πŸ‘︎ 3
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/autismus_invicta
πŸ“…︎ Jan 20 2021
🚨︎ report
FAQ & Small Discussions β€” 2022-01-17 to 2022-01-30

As usual, in this thread you can ask any questions too small for a full post, ask for resources and answer people's comments!

You can find former posts in our wiki.

Official Discord Server.


The Small Discussions thread is back on a semiweekly schedule... For now!


FAQ

> What are the rules of this subreddit?

Right here, but they're also in our sidebar, which is accessible on every device through every app. There is no excuse for not knowing the rules.
Make sure to also check out our Posting & Flairing Guidelines.

If you have doubts about a rule, or if you want to make sure what you are about to post does fit on our subreddit, don't hesitate to reach out to us.

> Where can I find resources about X?

You can check out our wiki. If you don't find what you want, ask in this thread!

> Can I copyright a conlang?

Here is a very complete response to this.

Beginners

Here are the resources we recommend most to beginners:


For other FAQ, check this.


Recent news & important events

State of the Subreddit Address

At the end of every year for the past few, the head moderator has been writing a quick summary of the last 12 months and addressing some issues. You can check out the 2021 SotSA here!.

Segments

We've gotten some lovely submissions for Segments #04. The call closed a week ago, but you can keep your eyes peeled for a post from u/Lysimachiakis linking to the new issue! We plan to have it up after this SD thread goes live but before the next one does.

Best of 2021

u/roipoiboy recently hosted the Best Of 2021 awards on the subreddit! Congrats to the winners!


If you have any suggestions for additions to this thre

... keep reading on reddit ➑

πŸ‘︎ 13
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/AutoModerator
πŸ“…︎ Jan 17 2022
🚨︎ report
Would UBI obviate the need for unions?

My understanding is that unions exist due to the perceived asymmetry in negotiating power between workers and employers because generally any one individual worker needs their job in a given moment more than an employer needs that job slot to be filled. Whether or not this is true in all cases, wouldn't UBI essentially bridge that gap in negotiating power?

Because everyone would be able to survive at least on some level without work, they'd presumably have significantly more leverage over the terms of their employment than they would otherwise - seeing how they would no longer actually "need" the job.

Through UBI, you'd be able to accomplish the intended objective of unions without dealing with the free-rider problems can crop up in unionized workspaces. What are your thoughts?

πŸ‘︎ 8
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Pheer777
πŸ“…︎ Jan 04 2021
🚨︎ report
Grammar of Katherqh Draconic

This is the grammar and phonology of my original Draconic language, Katherqh. I’ve been working on this for almost a year now, and though not exhaustively complete, it’s done enough to where I feel I can showcase it like this.

The document’s formatting isn’t the most exact, so please forgive me for that.

Any criticism, good or bad, would be tremendously appreciated. Thank you all so much for reading!

Katherqh Draconic Grammar

πŸ‘︎ 24
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/fthx722868
πŸ“…︎ Jan 03 2022
🚨︎ report
South African Covid variant appears to β€˜obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says cnbc.com/2021/01/05/south…
πŸ‘︎ 11
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ“…︎ Jan 06 2021
🚨︎ report
SERIOUS: This subreddit needs to understand what a "dad joke" really means.

I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.

Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.

πŸ‘︎ 17k
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/anywhereiroa
πŸ“…︎ Jan 15 2022
🚨︎ report
South African Covid variant appears to β€˜obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says

CNBC: South African Covid variant appears to β€˜obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/05/south-africa-covid-variant-appears-to-obviate-antibody-drugs-dr-scott-gottlieb-says.html

πŸ‘︎ 4
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Tdeath001
πŸ“…︎ Jan 06 2021
🚨︎ report
[Business] - South African Covid variant appears to β€˜obviate’ antibody drugs, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says cnbc.com/2021/01/05/south…
πŸ‘︎ 2
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/AutoNewsAdmin
πŸ“…︎ Jan 06 2021
🚨︎ report
Israeli Scientists print world’s first 3-D heart, made of human patient's tissues; New technology could obviate organ donations soon haaretz.com/science-and-h…
πŸ‘︎ 500
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/Toidotlers
πŸ“…︎ Apr 15 2019
🚨︎ report
Just my own theory, but oncoming events may obviate the need for apes to take more action than they already are.

Was a response to THH.

TL;DR at bottom.

Apes are trying to crash the manipulated market by removing enough physical that it can't continue.

Meanwhile investors/speculators are out there treating Paper Silver as if it was Physical Silver in the belief that they can trade their paper for physical either at any time, or at a set time soon to arrive.

In the additional meanwhile, the Basel III freight train is barreling down the tracks -- next stop June 28 for the EU, which includes some number of bullion banks in the LBMA and COMEX.

Basel III makes paper silver either unprofitable, or completely out of the question, meaning that a lot of unallocated silver holders are also now out in the cold.

This means that for those of them who want to maintain exposure to silver prices there are 2 options:

  1. Buy physical -- stressing the limited supply even further.

  2. Buy silver ETFs to track the price -- many of whom will have to buy physical due to no easy paper for them any longer either. 100% silver ETFs also either buy remaining physical, or stop issuing units.

TL;DR Basel III may lead to a lot of paper silver holders suddenly having no option but to invest in a very limited supply of physical silver if they want to remain in silver at all.

πŸ‘︎ 11
πŸ’¬︎
πŸ‘€︎ u/NCCI70I
πŸ“…︎ Jun 06 2021
🚨︎ report

Please note that this site uses cookies to personalise content and adverts, to provide social media features, and to analyse web traffic. Click here for more information.