Nicene Creed Puns

Most Christians believe in the Trinity. Depending on who you ask, the Trinity might be defined as three separate aspects of god. In order for Christianity to be monotheistic, three separate aspects of one god would make sense. However, if you ask a catholic or orthodox Christian, they will define the Trinity very unusually - one “god”, but three “persons”. What does “persons” mean? Well, here are some parts of the nicene creed:

>We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

> And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; of the same essence as the Father

> He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

> And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son (Note: orthodox Christians leave out the phrase “and the son”)

According to these statements, God the Son was begotten, meaning born from, God the father, but is of the same essence, and will sit by his right hand in heaven (iirc this is a reference to an OT prophecy about the messiah), while god the Holy Spirit proceeds from the father (and the son, if you aren’t orthodox). It species that “begotten” does not mean “made”, but that is a paradox; if you are born from someone, you were made by them, more importantly, “persons” in this context seems to mean “entity”, and implies the three members of the Trinity are three distinct beings merely of the same substance - IE; polytheism. The Catholic Church has deemed Modalism, the belief that the three members of the Trinity are three seperate aspects of one god, to be heresy. However, Modalism is far more logically consistent with the idea of monotheism than the Nicene creed - if the three persons of the Trinity are seperate entities, one begotten by another, one “proceeding from” (whatever that even means if it doesent mean created by) one or two of the others, there are three gods.

Hello brethern,

How do we baptists reconcile the Nicene creed where it says:

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; of the same essence as the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary, and was made human. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Do you all believe the writers of the creed by baptism meant water baptism? If so, how can we as baptists hold to the nicene creed when we know salvation is by Grace through Faith, without works such as water baptism.

God bless!

I've been enjoying a local Episcopal church for more than a year now, after many years in a very progressive Congregational/UCC church. In that church, the Nicene Creed was not used, which was good because I have some issues with that Creed. I don't recite it when others do during the Episcopal church service. But should I choose to officially join, will I be required to recite it as part of the joining process? Thanks.

I understood in + acc to signify motion (ie into, onto).

There appears to be a consensus in r/christianity that the only denominations that should be considered true Christians are those that believe in the Nicene creed. However, this seems like an odd position to hold to me because the Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD (Nicene Creed - Wikipedia), so none of the men who signed the creed had even personally met Christ because they lived nearly three hundred years after the crucifixion took place. Furthermore, the Nicene creed is not part of the Bible and although many Christians would state that it was derived from Biblical teachings there are other non-trinitarian Christians that could argue against their interpretation of the Bible. Thus, the Nicene Creed is no more than a non-scriptural, man-made creed and cannot be used to qualify which denominations are "truly Christian".

An old parish of mine started offering AMAZING online services at the beginning of the pandemic, but because of reasons they had to stop. The parish they're recommending people tune into is good, but my 1 problem (other than refusing to use He for God) is they use a "contemporary" version of the Nicene Creed. Maybe it's just me but using a translation that's not in the prayer book seems reason enough to stop tuning in.

Here's the translation they use:

Started attending online church at a parish that uses a "contemporary" Nicene Creed. Despite the fact that it's the service my favorite parish tunes into, I feel like changing the creed is reason enough to stop watching. Heck, I prefer the new Catholic translation but wouldn't use it in an Episcopal service.

I'm a Prayer Book Anglo-Catholic. Why is it so hard for parishes to stick to the prayer book?

Text of this "contemporary" translation produced below:

We trust in one God, the Creator, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We trust in Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten eternally of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father, through whom all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became truly human.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We trust in the Holy Spirit, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. And with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, and has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy universal and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

One of the common arguments against the Filioque is that the Roman Church had no authority to change the Nicene Creed, yet Constantinople I, a local council with no intention of being ecumenical, did the same thing hundreds of years earlier. Why is one wrong, but the other okay?

Edit: Constantinople I, not II.

Fathers, I have noticed that sometimes at Mass we pray the Apostles Creed and other times we pray the Nicene Creed. Could you explain how it is determined which creed to pray during Mass? Is it simply priestly preference or perhaps determined by the liturgical calendar? Thanks and God bless you all!

I am having a hard time trying to understand the concept of the Trinity and whether Christianity is actually a monotheistic or polytheistic religion. I know Christianity is today considered a monotheistic religion by most of the people; but some things make me think that Christianity actually believes in two gods, if not more? I´d really appreciate if you answered the questions below or just even write your opinions and views on the matter.

".. God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made,

consubstantial with the Father .."

- I see that the Nicene Creed often refers to the son of God as a God. Doesn´t that mean that there are actually two gods that christians believe in? Is Christianity really a monotheistic or polytheistic religion?

- Why is it so important that Jesus was "begotten" and not made? How was he born then? What does "consubstantial with the Father" mean? Did God "give birth" to himself? Or maybe Jesus is actually a totally different god from the actual God? So are there two gods?

Because of coronavirus, the NO mass that I sometimes have to go has changed the recitation of the Nicene Creed to the priest saying "Do you believe...." each paragraph of the creed, with the laity responding "I do"? Now obviously this is a ridiculously unnecessary "health" measure and state law in no way requires it but nonetheless they are doing it. What I can't figure out is if this is at all allowed because I don't see it anywhere allowed by the missal and it seems to be a blatant liturgical abuse. Any thoughts?

Was this an implicit admission that ideals like universalism were seen as legitimately within the rule of faith? It seems that if scripture is clear about hell, Koine Greek speakers would have seen it far more clearly than us.

I think I asked this one before but I forgot... why did Jesus go down to Hell after his death before going to heaven again?

It’s not scripture as many have point out over the years. The Nicene creed is, simply put, a statement of faith. It’s the only creed that represents the whole body of churches, as it’s accepted as a true and valuable summation of the most crucial aspects of our faith to the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and many Protestant churches. Its purpose is to provide a doctrinal statement of true belief. While it is not Scripture, every statement comes from Scripture, making it just as (if not more so!) scripturally sound as sharing the “4 spiritual laws” or other common compilations of conclusions derived from Scripture.

However, why do we even care? Why is knowing and understanding the Nicene Creed so important? Why was it even created? Can we trust that every sentence is true? Can we trust it as an authoritative document representing what all Christians believe? How does it relate to our lives now?

We’ll answer these questions by looking at its history, and above all, looking to scripture.

History:

The Nicene Creed was adopted by the council of Nicea in the year 325. The First Council of Nicea was a council of Christian Bishops (convened by Constantine I) whose purpose was to attain church-wide consensus on Christendom. Think of how the United States House of Representatives represents the population of the 50 states, likewise, the Council of Nicea is the assembly that represents Christendom. Their goal was to define unity for all Christians during that time.

This unity was uniquely necessary in this time. The previous Emperor, Maximian, persecuted Christians, shut down churches, and burned Scriptures wherever they were found. In 306 AD, Constantine I took over as emperor. He devoted much of his political power to advancing Christianity throughout the Roman empire. 7 years later, Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, which granted Christianity, and other religions, legal status. As a result of this, numerous people who had previously been persecuted under the reign of Maximiam and his predecessor were not only free to join the Church – it became politically advantageous to do so. Many people joining the church had preexisting beliefs and philosophies that were incompatible with Christianity, requiring clarity against core doctrines of the faith being obfuscated by the new ideas being spread among the new “Converts.”

([Source 1](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Maximian) and [

Is there a reason that Lutheranism kept the ex filioque clause (a western/catholic addition) instead of using the original wording of the Nicene creed? Is it intentional that it was kept or just a “small fish” in comparison to the rest of the papacy’s problems?

It seems that its official declaration originated on the The Third Council of Toledo. What are the sources for that? And why did the Franks and Charlemagne later adopt it? And how did it spread to the actual Roman church?

Thanks in advance.

Believing in Ancient Aliens helped me doubt my faith. It allowed me to still believe in a greater power and the supernatural as I reconciled faith and science. Fortunately, I kept questioning.

Here's a video I made to really highlight that point: It's the Nicene Creed framed as if it were an episode of Ancient Aliens. I hope others enjoy it as much as I loved making it!

https://youtu.be/IBdRQ8sX4xc [2 min 30 sec]

https://preview.redd.it/ajk9d1gai7l51.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed6e33a0e45734d279d8540d1e6bedeeec3236bf

I was listening to a dialogue between a Trinitarian and a Biblical Unitarian. The Unitarian was trying to suggest that church history was on his side. (I don't buy that theory.) However, he said that even the Nicene Creed reflected a Monarchical view of the Trinity because it identifies the Father as the one true God.

When I compare the Athanasian Creed with the Nicene Creed there does seem to be some differences in how they identify the person's and their glory.

Just curios on some thoughts. I've been trying to learn church history and understand the ancient heresies regarding the deity of Christ and the persons of the Trinity. As far as I understand, the Nicene Creed is a response to Arianism and seeks to establish the Son as uncreated and coeternal. It seems to elevate the Son as God as much as the Father. So, I'm unsure if the Unitarian has a point or is misreading it.

Is the Father considered greater because he is the source of the Son?

Please understand I'm not referring to the economic roles of the persons either. I fully understand and believe that each person took a role in the redemption of the elect. My question is regarding the view of the Trinity in eternity past and how the Son and Father are articulated in their relationship and glory.

Happy Sunday! I collated the Apostles and Nicene Creed, to compare and contrast the texts. Text is from the app “Christian Creeds and Confessions.”

[ ] - Only found in Apostles Creed

( ) - Added by Nicaea

I believe in (one) God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth (and of all things visible and invisible.

And in (one) Jesus Christ, [His] (the) only begotten Son (of God), [our Lord;] (begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.)

Who (for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate) [was conceived] by the Holy Spirit, (born) of the virgin Mary; (and was made man; and was crucified also for us) [Suffered] under Pontius Pilate; [was crucified, dead,] and (was) buried; [He descended into hell;] The third day He rose again [from the dead;] (according to the Scriptures;) and [He] ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father [Almighty;] (and) [From thence] He shall come (again, with glory,) to judge the living and the dead, (whose kingdom shall have no end.)

(And) I believe in the Holy Spirit; (the Lord and Giver of life; who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spake by the prophets. And I believe) the holy catholic (and apostolic) Church; [the communion of saints; The forgiveness of sins; The resurrection of the body; And the life everlasting.] (I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.) AMEN.

In Joseph Smith History, Joseph states that during the First Vision he was told by Christ, "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight."

In light of this, I'd like to look at the most famous of all Christian creeds, the Nicene Creed and analyze it both from a traditional Christian and Mormon perspective. But first, a little background.

Creeds in Christianity

"Creed" comes from the Latin "credo," meaning "I believe." A creed in ancient Christianity was a statement of belief. The world of early Christianity was very different from our own: a largely illiterate, oral society. Creeds thus served multiple functions: they were a way to define the faith, to pass along the essential elements to other believers, and (very importantly) were aspects of liturgical worship.

The earliest creeds are embedded into the New Testament. (See 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 for an example.) By the 2nd century (and likely earlier) creeds were used as personal statements of belief taught and spoken before baptism.

Nicene Creed Background

To understand the Nicene Creed one must first understand the background. Prior to the Nicene Creed several creeds were floating around Christianity, fulfilling liturgical needs of individual congregations. Creeds and liturgies would vary in different local churches according to custom.

Enter Arius. I don't want to get into the complex ins and outs of the Arianism controversy, but the main gist is that Arius -- a Christian priest from Alexandria -- taught that Jesus was a creation of God within time. The battle lines are complicated (it's unclear how much Arius himself even held to Arianism), but it created the need for the early Christian church to settle their views on Christology.

The two main opposing camps were:

1. The Arian Christians, who held that Christ was a creation by the Father within time
2. The Homoousian Christians, who held that Christ was co-eternal and "co-essential" with the Father.

The first pan-Christian council was called, and it was decisively in favor of the Homoousian Christians.

The Creed Itself

I will use the following text of the creed, then break it down section by section and discuss what it means.

>We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible

Do you and/or your group/"denomination" believe the Nicene Creed? If not, which parts do you disagree with?

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.