The Gospels of Matthew and Luke were not inspired by the holy spirit

I think a few simple observations are enough to dispute the claim that the holy spirit inspired the writers of the gospels:

Firstly that the authors of Matthew and Luke copied Mark nearly word-for-word extensively. If the holy spirit can inspire one writer (the author of Mark), why not inspire two more? It's one thing to communicate the same message, but quite another to just copy and paste most of a source.

Second, that Matthew and Luke copied Mark imperferctly, sometimes changing the passages they're copying in ways which hinder the meaning. Michael Goulder calls this "editor's fatigue", and gives a few examples*. In one, Mark says that Herod is a bit of a fan of John the Baptist, hence his grief at having to honour his oath to kill him. Matthew misses this detail and says that Herod wanted to kill John, yet still later copies the passage about Herod grieving. In another example, Mark sets up the feeding of the five thousand as happening in a deserted place, hence the need for miracle; Jesus talks for so long that it's becoming too late for the crowd to go back into civilisation to find food. Luke mis-copies this set-up, but still copies directly the "pay-off": β€œSend the crowd away, so that they may go into the surrounding villages and countryside, to lodge and get provisions; for we are here in a deserted place.” (Luke 9:12). However, earlier Luke established the setting as the city of Bethsaida, so now the pay-off doesn't make sense.

Presumably the holy spirit doesn't get fatigued, yet it apparently allowed human fatigue to introduce errors into the copy-and-paste job.

I think this leaves us with two options: firstly the holy spirit didn't inspire the authors of the gospels of Matthew and Luke, or the holy spirit did inspire the authors, but did it in such a way that it looks exactly as if humans wrote the gospels without any holy inspiration.

β€”-

*I'm taking this second-hand from this blog post: https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2015/03/10/how-editorial-fatigue-shows-that-matthew-and-luke-copied-mark/, so credit to Paul D. for that.

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The Q source is a hypothetical written collection of primarily Jesus' sayings. Q is part of the common material found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke but not in the Gospel of Mark. Q is one of the foundations of most modern gospel scholarship. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_s…
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TIL The Gospel of Luke dates when the ministry of John the Baptist began: In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. This specifies A.D. 29, which identifies the years of Jesus' Ministry ncregister.com/blog/jimmy…
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Do most scholars agree Theophilus was an individual, someone known to the author of the Gospel of Luke ?

Luke addresses his letter to Theophilus, and some believe that β€œTheophilus” is a generic title for β€˜all Christians’ since the name means β€œloved by God” in Greek.

Luke addresses him as β€œmost excellent,” a title often used when referring to someone of honor or rank, such as a Roman official. The formal nature of the preface, and the conventional practice of ascribing treatises to notable people, that some argue suggests Theophilus was a real person. Paul used the same form of address in Acts 23:26; 24:2 when addressing Felix, and again in Acts 26:25 when addressing Festus. Therefore, one of the most common theories is that Theophilus was a Roman officer or high-ranking official in the Roman government.

However, there are second-century references to a β€œTheophilus” from Luke’s time who was known as β€œa great lord” and a leader in the city of Antiochβ€”also a Gentile but not a Roman official. But he could have been a Roman citizen. I've heard that many (conservative) scholars believe Theophilus could have been this wealthy man who became a benefactor who supported Paul and Luke on their missionary journeys. That would account for Luke’s wanting to provide an orderly and detailed account of their experiences.

A few of the less popular theories of who Theophilus might have been include one suggesting Luke’s Theophilus was Theophilus ben Ananus, the high priest in Jerusalem in A.D. 37-41. Another theory is that the Theophilus Luke was writing to was a later high priest named Mattathias ben Theophilus, who served in Jerusalem in A.D. 65-66. Yet another theory is that Theophilus was the Roman lawyer who defended Paul during his trial in Rome. Those who hold this theory believe that Luke’s purpose in writing Luke and Acts was to write a defense of Christianity, somewhat akin to a legal brief.

There is abundant evidence to suggest Luke’s writing is aimed at a Gentile audience of some kindβ€”such as a Roman one. The church father Jerome says in one place that Luke was in Rome when he wrote, and a Roman audience would fit that theory nicely; the climax of the book of Acts is Paul’s arrival in Rome.

I think we cannot know with any certainty. However, we can know what Luke’s intentions for writing were. He tells us. Wherever an author states his own intention, that must be given due weight. Luke says his purpose is history and theologyβ€”the theological significance of historical events. He writes this history and this theology so Theophilus may know the things he was told

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For religious retainers...an interesting quote from the gospel of Luke that can be interpreted in a powerful metaphorical way

Luke 8:4-15

While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: β€œA farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”

When he said this, he called out, β€œWhoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”

His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He said, β€œThe knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,

β€œβ€˜though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’[a] β€œThis is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

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πŸ‘€︎ u/illobo88
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Question regarding the authorship of the Gospels. Specifically Luke-Acts.

I am having a discussion with someone regarding the likelihood that Luke-Acts were authored by Luke, a physician and companion to Paul. He cites unanimous early church acceptance (Church Fathers), which I personally do not see as a convincing line of reasoning. He also gives several other evidences that I feel could lead to any educated scribe of the time, but he ties to Luke. Such as terms physicians would most likey know, the reference in the Pauline Epistles to a Luke, psudonymity not being common until the second century, and a lack of an established case for any other author.

I'm curious how strong a case can be made that the author was not only anonymous, which he accepts, but that psudonymity could indeed be common since authorship wasn't a common practice at the time. Any references you could point to or arguments you could make here to advance my education on this topic enough to either refute his claims or concede that he is correct would be greatly appreciated.

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Why is it that the 4 Gospel writers (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) all have seemingly more "common English" names compared to others who existed in the same region at the same time? Or is the reason those names are so common English names because of the apostles?
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Luke the Evangelist is one of the Four Evangelistsβ€”the four traditionally ascribed authors of the canonical Gospels. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luk…
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Was Marcion's gospel a redacted form of Luke's or was it vice versa?
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The gospels are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Marcus, Lucas, and Jonathan probably thought Matthew was pompous for not just going by the shortened version (Matt) like the rest of them did.
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An excerpt from Dennis MacDonald's 'The Gospels and Homer: Imitations of Greek Epic in Mark & Luke-Acts', 2014

From MacDonald, Dennis R., 2014, The Gospels and Homer: Imitations of Greek Epic in Mark and Luke-Acts. Lanham: Rowman & Littlefield, pp.205-8 [in turn from a post on vridar], -

In Mark 4:35-41 Jesus calms the wind and the sea and thus resembles the God of Israel as portrayed in the Psalter, which portrays God as master of the sea in Pss 64:8, 76:17, 88:10, and 106:23-32 (MT 65:7, 77:16, 89:9, and 107:23-32). For the plot of the story, however, scholars rightly have turned to the Book of Jonah (cf. Jonah 1:1-16 and Mark 4:35-41). An even more compelling analogy appears in the Odyssey.

Od. 10.28-29, 31-33, and 47-52 Mark 4:35-41
[Odysseus told Alcinous, on a floating island, tales of the Trojan War.] [Jesus taught the crowds while floating on a boat.]
β€œFor nine days, night and day alike, On that day, when it was late, he says to them, β€œLet’s pass over to the other side.” 36 They left the crowd and took himβ€”he already was in the boat.
[Odysseus had twelve ships] ... we sailed, / and already on the tenth our homeland appeared. /.. . Then sweet sleep [ύπνος] came over me, for Other boats were with him.
I was weary / from continually adjusting the sheet of the ship, never handing it over to another / of my comrades, so that we might arrive at our homeland quickly. / . .. [Odysseus’s crew] untied the bag, and
all the winds [άνΡμοι] rushed out. / The gale immediately snatched them and drove them out to sea / weeping, away from their homeland.” 37 And a great gale of wind [άνΡμου] came up, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it already was filling.
[10.27: β€œBy our own folly 38 He himself was in the stern asleep on a pillow. They woke him and said to him, β€œTeacher, do you not care that
we were perishing (Ξ¬Ο€Ο‰Ξ»ΟŒΞΌΞ΅ΞΈΞ±).”] we are perishing [άπολλύμΡθα]?”
β€œBut I / rose up [Ξ­Ξ³ΟΟŒΞΌΞ΅Ξ½ΞΏΟ‚] and pondered in my blameless heart / whether to jump from the ship and perish in the sea / or calmly to endure and remain still among the living.” 39 He rose up [διΡγΡρθΡίς], rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, β€œSilence! Be still!” The wind died down, and there was a great calm.
40 And he said to them, β€œWhy were you such cowards [δΡιλοί]? Do you still have no faith?” 41 They were greatly afraid, and were saying to each other, β€œWhat kind of person is this, that even the wind and the sea obey
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"And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, Falking on the sea."-Gospel of Luke, 3:12
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A translation of the Gospel of Luke into Moroccan Arabic from 1902 twitter.com/incunabula/st…
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Marcion Priority over Luke: Luke being a Rewrite of Marcion's Gospel

The previous crosspost raises the issue stated in the title of this post [eta: rewrite may be overstatement]. The proposition probably started with Joseph B. Tyson and his 2006 book, Marcion and Luke-Acts: A Defining Struggle, though it was a view previously put forward by a mentor of his, John Knox in Marcion and the New Testament (1942), and by Charles B. Waite in the late 19th century in History of the Christian Religion to the Year Two-Hundred.

Jason Beduhn raised it in his 2013 book, 'The First New Testament: Marcion's Scriptural Canon', -

>"Critics of Marcion like Tertullian and Epiphanius complained that Marcion cut and edited scripture to fit his beliefs. Biblical scholar Adolf von Harnack accepted this claim in his definitive text, Marcion: The Gospel of an Alien God (1920). However, Tertullian and Epiphanius lived several generations after Marcion, and they assumed the New Testament they read already existed in Marcion’s era. It didn’t. Marcion’s [early] critics were reading history backward instead of forward: there was no New Testament yet." http://www.westarinstitute.org/blog/mar ... testament/

In 2014 Markus Vinzent published 'Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels', -

>Summary ... The present volume is the first systematic study of all available early evidence that we have about the first witness to our Gospel narratives, Marcion of Sinope. It evaluates our commonly known arguments for dating the Synoptic Gospels, elaborates on Marcion's crucial role in the Gospel making, and argues for a re-dating of the Gospels to the years between 138 and 144 AD.

In 2015, Matthias Klinghardt published in German, Das Γ€lteste Evangelium und die Entstehung der kanonischen Evangelien in two volumes [title translation: 'The oldest gospel, & the emergence of the canonical Gospels']

Beduhn, Vinzent, and Klinghardt have, since those books, each published other articles along these lines, explaining and elaborating.

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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 6-9 youtu.be/37wM4w-paLc
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Exploring the Bible with Dave - The Gospel of Luke Chapters 19 - 21 youtube.com/watch?v=Tf-X9…
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The Gospel of Luke [the Alternative Facts gospel] youtu.be/78bsM7RbK0A
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 3-6 youtube.com/watch?v=dln-J…
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 1-3 youtube.com/watch?v=hOV5j…
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 1-3 youtube.com/watch?v=hOV5j…
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 1-3 youtu.be/hOV5j5h19yY
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 3-6 youtube.com/watch?v=dln-J…
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Exploring the Bible with Dave - The Gospel of Luke Chapters 22-24 youtu.be/zSvZvIe5nvg
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 6-9 youtu.be/37wM4w-paLc
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 6-9 youtu.be/37wM4w-paLc
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 6-9 youtu.be/37wM4w-paLc
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Why did the gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke all include the story of Jesus exorcising the demon Legion? What do we know about 1st century Jewish ideas of demons? reddit.com/r/AcademicBibl…
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 6-9 youtu.be/37wM4w-paLc
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Exploring the Bible with Dave - The Gospel of Luke Chapters 22-24 youtu.be/zSvZvIe5nvg
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 13-15 youtu.be/aoPefFOYNA4
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 13-15 youtu.be/aoPefFOYNA4
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The Gospel of Luke Chapters 10-12 youtu.be/WQ9kqk5Yahg
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Exploring the Bible with Dave - The Gospel of Luke Chapters 16-18 youtu.be/8ADoKgUd4pI
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