Did French to blame for Englishes awful Orthography?

YIKES this title (Is French to blame for English's awful Orthography?)

When I was attempting to learn German, despite not succeeding, German was very consistent so when I learned a rule or way to spell something it just worked unlike English when there is an exception to every exception to every rule.

Apparently it's similarly ridiculous for French.

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📅︎ Jan 15 2022
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Tonal Polypersonal French with Navajo-style orthography

So, David J. Peterson's Azrán is a tonal Mexican Spanish. This gave me an idea to evolve the French language to acquire tones and polypersonal agreement. All voiced obstruents lost their voice, /ɛ/ and /e/, /ɔ/ and /o/, /œ/ and /ø/ merged, most obstruent codas are lost.

Orthography and phonology:

A /a/, Ą /ɑ̃/ C /k/, E /e/, Ę /ɛ̃/, Ë /ə/ F /f/, H /χ/, I /i~j/, L /l/, M /m/, N /n/, O /o/, Ǫ /ɔ̃/, Ø /ø/ P /p/, Q /k/, R /ʁ/, S /s/, T /t/, U /u/, W /w/, X /ʃ/, Y /y/

Here is The North Wind and the Sun, compared with the original.

TONAL:

Pore elëSólei cǫ́tété tøløfô. Iltesíte târipø lapą́l asély tą̂h ø qi tepýlre ęfoiaxø tøséfêmę. Pore cómąsá ; ils̀ula afêfølę. Cómlom sére sýly sǫ́fêmę, ilasélî afêply tøfô. Melom ęcómote ęcò tafątài páløfwa, pri ęfêmę deply, sí pię qe, repyté, Pore lelira oSólei. Selysi tú tapo lysi moteremę ; pý, lom aią oté sǫ́fêmę sylémątè, løSólei tata teraiǫ ply atę, xyca sëqelom, nøpúfą ply resìté alaxálø, otá sésapi esę́ alaprę̂h ępę tąlarifie fwasin.

Séfál mǫ̂h qésúfę lapèswásiǫ e ply efícà qélafølę.

ORIGINAL:

Borée et le Soleil contestaient de leur force. Ils décidèrent d’attribuer la palme à celui d’entre eux qui dépouillerait un voyageur de ses vêtements. Borée commença ; il souffla avec violence. Comme l’homme serrait sur lui son vêtement, il l’assaillit avec plus de force. Mais l’homme incommodé encore davantage par le froid, prit un vêtement de plus, si bien que, rebuté, Borée le livra au Soleil. Celui-ci tout d’abord luisit modérément ; puis, l’homme ayant ôté son vêtement supplémentaire, le Soleil darda des rayons plus ardents, jusqu’à ce que l’homme, ne pouvant plus résister à la chaleur, ôta ses habits et s’en alla prendre un bain dans la rivière voisine.

Cette fable montre que souvent la persuasion est plus efficace que la violence.

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📅︎ Nov 15 2021
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Inspired by a recent post on here about romanising Japanese using French orthography - any other cursed language/orthography combos?

It's hard to beat that and Nuxalk written using Hangul.

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📅︎ Aug 10 2021
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Tonal Polypersonal French with Navajo-style orthography /r/conlangs/comments/quht…
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👤︎ u/gooplom88
📅︎ Nov 16 2021
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How did French (and Portuguese) ended up with a [ʒ] and Spanish with a [x] when we all began with a J [ j ] + how did portuguese and french had the same change while spanish got a [x] (Romanian probably copied the French and Italian orthography or maybe not)

You know there is Spain in b/w them and spanish doesn't even have a hint of it

Also how did Portuguese and French hot their weird /r/ [ʁ] (which actually sounds more like a [g]) like how did [r] turn into a [ʁ]

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👤︎ u/AleksiB1
📅︎ Nov 19 2020
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Comprehensive French Pronunciation Guides/Guides to orthography?

Hello, /r/french!
I'm not planning on learning French, but I will be working with/at a French consulate for a few months on a project. I've studied Spanish, but given that French is the language of diplomacy and that I will be working with the French, I'd like to not embarrass myself too much. I checked the sidebar, and found one or two links in the "Helpful tips/links" for pronunciation, but they were based around the sounds.

Are there any good resources for learning French orthography? I can practice the sounds, but I'd like to be able to handle everything from names to the French pronunciations of the lingo that gets thrown around; some common terms aren't Anglicized, but rarely do you hear demarché pronounced with the stressed first syllable in English. These are probably less important; more worried about seeing documents and not being able to verbalize properly, or messing up even common terms and names.

We have our first meeting in a week, so I have some time to practice. I plan on listening to some radio/TV newscasts to get a feel for the cadence, but a good guide on pronunciation not aimed at travelers would be great!

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📅︎ Mar 23 2015
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Had to make this to put a colonist in his place🇬🇧
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📅︎ Dec 22 2021
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UK: Focus on phonics to teach reading is ‘failing children’, says landmark study theguardian.com/education…
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📅︎ Jan 19 2022
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Chad navajo vs virgin ENGLISH
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👤︎ u/Hamza2579
📅︎ Jan 22 2022
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What is the "point" of grammar. Why can't we just say words the way we want to. /r/learnfrench/comments/s…
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👤︎ u/Aelnir
📅︎ Jan 17 2022
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pod moim domem jest siedem trupów
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📅︎ Nov 09 2021
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Gaturoukes: A shitty conlang for a shitty conworld I made up

It spanish pidgin........ uses hangul script and has same grammar structure as english............

examples: 엣두엣술누두엡

두압엣닷

ᄋ엣누메졸본엠아데누디엘라

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👤︎ u/Catter427
📅︎ Jan 18 2022
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What is the different usage of préfèrerai and préférerai

So I was trying to conjugate the verb préférer and noticed that the website gymglish uses both préfèrerai and préférerai in the future tense. What is the different? Are they used in different scenarios?

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📅︎ Dec 15 2021
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Do you find the digraphs <ee> & <oo> (when used to represent /i/ & /u/ in Romanization schemes) to give a word a “silly” feel?

More so for <oo>. I guess my mind goes back to words like <moo>, <boo>, <boob>, or “cutesy” spellings of words like <dood> or <hooman>.

So when I read an English-orthography-based Romanization of a name like “Yoo” or “Haroon” or “Rasheed”, it feels silly.

Don’t get me wrong, other Romanizations like French-based ones are kinda cringe too, why <Djouraoui> when it could just be <Jurawi>?” Then again, English <Joorawee> isn’t any better.

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📅︎ Dec 29 2021
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Vietnamese orthography is a crime against humanity
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📅︎ Sep 09 2021
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Latin script orthographies alignment chart, explanations in comments
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📅︎ Sep 09 2021
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[TOMT][MOVIE] A movie cartoon where a man tries to usurp the throne of his relative, and he is trapped in the castle's window at the end

I watched this cartoon movie at the beginning of the 2000s, but this can be a production of a previous decade (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, I don't know). The only certainty is that this movie was not produced after 2003.

The story happens in a past period where there were kings and princes, but I don't think it is in the Middle Ages, I am almost certain it happens in the Early Modern Period (15th~18th century), but I am not sure.

This movie cartoon is definitely unknown for the general public (think of those "obscure" European or Soviet cartoons), so it's not a Disney or DreamWorks production. By the way, it's not* an anime (Japanese animation).

I don't have many details to inform, so here is the list of things that can help:

  • I can be terribly wrong, but I am almost certain that the villain is a relative of the man whose throne he wants to usurp. Maybe they are brothers, or it is an uncle-nephew relationship.

  • The villain is dark-haired (and has a "French-style" mustache) while the other man (who has right to the throne) is blond, I will call this last man as "the prince"

  • I think that the prince (the blond man) is not the protagonist of the story, actually he is "the prince to be rescued".

  • My mind is treacherous, but if I am not mistaken, the name of the prince is something pronounced as [gu'du.gu] (I hope you know IPA, the bot mod don't allow me to explain the pronunciation through English orthography)

  • The villain wants to kill the prince

  • When angry, the villain start jumping like in this image or in this one.

  • Here is the most important clue: at the very end of the movie, the superior part of the body of the villain was outside the window when the bricks of the superior part of the window fall over him, trapping him. He was in the window of a castle's tower

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👤︎ u/maquinary
📅︎ Jan 20 2022
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The Letter V in Anglish

In the last year, it seems that a lot of progress has been made in standardising Anglish orthography. This is great as it both creates a common consensus and reverses much of the unnecessary and frankly unsightly French influence on English spellings. A good example is the letter Q, which as far as I’m concerned has no place in English (reverting Queen to Kween, Quick to Kwick etc.). However, another fairly new standard is the replacing of native [v] and [z] to [f] and [s] when making /v/ and /z/. These are also seen by most as nativising English spelling, and have become the overall consensus from what I can tell.

I am of the opinion, however, that English would have borrowed V without the Norman conquest. Part of this is demonstrated if we look at Late Old English (post 1066) and Early Middle English, we see orthographical variants such as Uif for Fíf “Five” and Heuen for Hefon “Heaven”. Whilst this is possibly (even likely) due to Norman sway, I think it more than probable that the English would have borrowed V without the conquest, due to increased trade and contact with the rest of Europe (English wouldn’t be immune to Continental words and spellings without the event, and [f] and [v] are both Latin letters anyway, so the latter is no more Germanic than the former), to clear up confusion and ambiguity in spelling (similar to using [k] over [c] for /k/, as for OE Cyning - ME Kyng), and also show the voicing of the fricatives /f/ to /v/, both at the start of words and between vowels (OE fæt - ME Vat, OE Gifan - ME Yiven), in addition to [z] for /z/, though I generally forgo its use within my projects. For these reasons, in my own Anglish spelling conventions I always retain [v] when making a native /v/, so I have words like ‘Arveþ’ (from OE earfoþe “labour”), ‘Over’ (OE Ofer, with the IPA reconstruction [o.ver]) and respell Love as ‘Luv’ rather than ‘Luf’.

Have most members of this community fully removed [v] and [z] from their own alphabets and projects? I am definitely in the minority when it comes retaining [v], but am interested in gauging what others within Anglish think about it.

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👤︎ u/Beowulf507
📅︎ Dec 31 2021
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Been thinking about languages

When talking about languages in a Pan-American federation, the most sounded option might be a trilingual state, with Spanish, English and Portuguese, but also having English as the language of education and business for it's role as the international lingua-franca.

Though I can see the reason behind this proposal I really think it would be important to look towards others directions, for instance, this three languages are really regional, wich means that it could spur a sense of social discontent, and ethnical tension. Wich in a so pluricultural state, is the last thing you want, therefore i suggest that a better solution would be a neutral lingua-franca inside the territory.

Esperanto.

Probably its a good bet, and I'm sure that some of you though about it, it's the colang with the biggest community and it's a neutral language, but there is where I personally find the flaw in it, Esperanto it's a language that most people have to learn from scratch, it was intended in that way for no advantage in a international or European scenario, but I don't find that kind of problem in the Americas, French, Portuguese & Spanish are all from the same family, and English has a lot of loanwords from French, for this and the fact that most of the people are reluctant to learn another language, I find Esperanto, feasible in a Pan-American situation but not the ideal.

Interlingua.

I personally think that Interlingua it's a better option for this matter, it's often heard the motto: “Interlingua, The language that every latin language speaker and highly educated English speakers can speak”, though i find it's orthography the problem here, it has certain ambiguity that to a English or Latin speaker might not be inconvenient, but for a native American or a Migrant could be a problem, therefore i think that a orthography reform would beneficial but don't know if it could affect it's recognisability with the other languages.

Papiamento.

It's a creole language between Spanish and Portuguese, with Dutch English and African loanwords, i can see it working because creole languages tend to have a very straight forward grammar, but don't know how the American francophony would receive it, it has two way of spelling it, the Aruba way, more related to how Spanish and Portuguese are spelled, and the Bonaire & Curaçao way, more related to its phonetics, i personally incline more to the last one, for the whole point of being a neutral language.

New languages.

I also could

... keep reading on reddit ➡

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👤︎ u/wl3z_xhi
📅︎ Dec 21 2021
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non-linguist youtubers when they try to talk about linguistics
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👤︎ u/Mullkaw
📅︎ Sep 05 2021
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Many options, seeking focus

Hi all, I love languages but find it difficult to stick to one before another takes my fancy... As a result, I've dabbled in more than a few, learnt basics, and never progressed beyond that point. I'm hoping you can all help me in finding the language that 'suits' me best that I'll hopefully stick to and one that pairs well with French!

For some background, I'm a native English speaker. I am currently studying French and working towards C1. I have studied three other languages (Spanish (to B2)/German (to A2)/Mandarin (to A1)) in the past.

I'm going to briefly outline my personal "pros and cons" of each language below to hopefully shed some light on any preferences I'm not consciously aware of.

German

  • + Previously studied, good selection of interesting TV shows, I enjoy the grammatical cases
  • - Lack of people to practice with, I find it difficult to remember spellings/specific words in comparison to other languages, separable verbs

Japanese

  • + I really like the sound/orthography, I enjoy Japanese literature, its history and scenery interest me, SOV word order interests me
  • - I dislike anime (possibly significantly reducing pool of resources?), three 'alphabets' - when to which?

Italian

  • + Is a romance language so easier (for me, having studied 2 others), like the cuisine and enjoy cooking it, I like Italian music
  • - Will possibly confuse it with French?, for some reason I find it a bit boring to study when I've studied basics/spoken to native speakers - like I have the motivations but no 'gel'?

Chinese (Mandarin)

  • + M: I have 2 Mandarin-speaking friends, Chinese culture/history/food interests me, the grammar is fairly simple, I enjoy writing the characters, previously studied
  • - M: tonal (unsure if pronouncing the tone correctly/am understandable), struggle with listening (lack of exposure?), I really dislike period dramas so struggle to find Chinese TV shows that interest me

Chinese (Cantonese)

  • + C: My boyfriend is Cantonese, one of my Mandarin-speaking friends speaks Cantonese, it sounds beautiful
  • - C: My boyfriend is not fluent in his native language due to not growing up in HK/China, I would struggle to speak to his mum out of fear/embarrassment of making mistakes, finding resources is difficult, and there are even more tones than in Mandarin...

Portuguese (from Portugal)

  • + Visited Portugal and loved it, I like the sound of Portuguese (from Portugal)
  • - Most resources are for B
... keep reading on reddit ➡

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📅︎ Jan 22 2022
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Why do words loaned into older English (17th-19th century?) often transform oː into uː?

Thinking of examples like Spanish picarón > English picaroon or French salon > English saloon. It seems to even happen with toponyms, like German Altona > English Altoona, Pennsylvania. More recent loans don't seem to have undergone the same process, to the point that later loans of the same word can form a contrastive pair (salon / saloon.) What is going on here? Did earlier English orthography render long /oː/ as "oo"? Did English speakers perceive the vowels in question as /uː/?

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📅︎ Jan 20 2022
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Periods of the day in Tagalog

While reading Jean Mallat's Les Philippines Volume 2 (1846), I came across of the Tagalog expressions of certain periods of the day. Some of these are no longer used. To those who are not yet familiar with Mallat, he was a French doctor who lived in the Philippines during the 1830s and 1840s. He apparently learned some Philippine languages and documented the major ethnic groups of Luzon and Visayas, describing them extensively in his works.

Too bad the orthography used to write some of the local terms can be confusing to modern-day Filipinos. Nevertheless, I'll just transcribe what was exactly on the pdf:

Mababao sa hating gabi - more than midnight

Magumagana - he wants to make light (?) *the he in the translation pertains to the Sun

Bucang liwayway - daybreak

Magmaraling arao - the day begins to be clear

Sisilang na ang arao - the sun will rise

Umagana - it is clear

Sangmilang na - he is up (?)

Arao na - he is full day (?)

Mamataas-taas na - he is already a little tall (?)

Pangingitlog manuc - about nine o'clock

Ipanining hapon - about four o'clock

Cavitin palacol or bagong socsoc arao - close to sunset

Lung monorma - he is lying (?)

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📅︎ Dec 13 2021
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Hey I'm a little bit lost...

Hello, I am new on this sub, and I am new on Reddit in general but whatever I have a question, I am a 17M and I am attracted by everyone but I have preferences... So IDK if I am really pansexual or not please help me...

Sorry for the orthography I am French and dyslexic...

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👤︎ u/OodSSigma1
📅︎ Dec 30 2021
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Proposed Collaboration for Inter-Romance Auxiliary Language Project

Hello, all!

Perhaps this has been proposed before, but I'd be interested in forming, maintaining, and documenting a pidgen language between Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, and any other Romance language that people here speak.

Partially inspired by Viossa, I'd be interested in doing the following:

  1. Individuals who speak a Romance language can DM me at which point I'll send an invite to a private Discord server where we can conduct the language.

  2. To begin, each member will speak in their respective Romance language and try to negotiate meaning by asking each other questions on the meanings of words, grammar, &c. (Note: If you speak multiple Romance languages, it is okay to switch between them, but you must communicate in a Romance language.)

  3. Over time, we will collaboratively combine aspects of grammar, orthography, and vocabulary to generate a neutral language. Speakers will begin to systematically replace common words with these common neutral words. If words come up that fall out of the scope of the generated vocabulary, a word of any Romance language could be substituted into parlance until such time that a neutral equivalent is created and accepted by the community.

  4. Changes in grammar across the languages will be documented and noted, culminating in a collaboratively written grammar of the new language.

I realise that projects similar to this have been done by pulling commonalities from Romance languages, but I'd be interested in seeing the natural evolution of this language happening.

If you're interested, please send me a DM or drop a comment below. In the DM/comment, indicate which Romance languages you speak. Ideally, we should have speakers of at least 4 different languages in the group.

Thank you all!

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📅︎ Dec 14 2021
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SERIOUS: This subreddit needs to understand what a "dad joke" really means.

I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.

Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.

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📅︎ Jan 15 2022
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Interjargon: An English-Based IAL

Preface

hello everyone! some of you may remember this post i made about a language called Globalang. it's been 5 months and the language has changed pretty significantly (like, significantly enough to have a completely new name), so i figured i'd make an update post.

Introduction

Interjargon is an international auxiliary language intended for communication between people who otherwise wouldn't have a language in common. What makes Interjargon unique is that it's based entirely on English. Now, why is this?

Well, whether we like it or not, English has become the lingua franca of our 21st century world. When you examine it, out of all the languages in the world, it’s not necessarily a bad choice. The vocabulary is based in Romance and Germanic words, which are very widespread, and it has influence from all sorts of other languages, from Arabic to Russian. However, its grammar is complicated, the orthography and phonology are an utter mess, and the vocabulary still isn’t truly representative of our whole world.

Interjargon aims to take the positive qualities of English and add a simplified phonology and writing system, specifically take the most international words from the many synonyms of English’s vocabulary, and make the grammar more simplified and suitable for international communication.

Essentially, the core idea of Interjargon is to create a world-sourced auxiliary language that's technically only based on English. This includes using somewhat obscure synonyms and sourcing words from affixes or Latin roots to get a more international vocabulary, and heavily simplifying English phonology and removing irregularities from the grammar.

Orthography and Phonology

Interjargon uses the Latin alphabet. There are 20 consonant phonemes and 5 vowel phonemes.

Consonants

The consonants are:

<b d f g l m n s v w> – all pronounced as in the IPA

<k p t> – aspirated /k^(h) p^(h) t^(h)/

<ch h j sh y z> /tʃ^(h) h~x dʒ ʃ j dz/

The letter R is a "whatever rhotic" phoneme preferably pronounced /r~ɾ/. The letter X is treated specially: it is pronounced /ks/ normally and /gz~gs/ intervocalically, but may also be pronounced as /s/. This lets it be treated as a single consonant for the sake of phonotactics. This letter X is used to preserve the spelling and pronunciation of words such as “fox”, which would otherwise be the less recogn

... keep reading on reddit ➡

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📅︎ Nov 02 2021
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It's not as crazy as English orthography, but damn is it flawed
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👤︎ u/Lapov
📅︎ Jun 20 2021
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watch nativlang's video and you'll get it
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📅︎ Jul 30 2021
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Klojban, an Evolving Conlang XVII

I guess I'm writing these now. Also, I made the chart more compact

Klojban, an Evolving Conlang: Introduction

With the downfall of r/EvolvingConlang and the rise of like ten others in its place, I firmly believe that a spiritual successor to it must be made. u/EkskiuTwentyTwo, if you want me to delete this, I shall.

Anyways, here is Klojban, named in the same manner as Lojban was to Loglan. Somewhat. It will have more rules than the other "add features by commenting them" conlangs:

  • The top three comments will be added instead of just the topmost one
  • The phonology must consist of actual phonemes; the grammar and lexicon, though, can be as wild as you want them to be
  • The orthography can be changed but it must be done in a separate comment.
  • If you want me to append a link to your suggestion, you can do so, but make sure it isn't NSFW or anything
  • Words added at the same time as a sound change do not have the sound change applied to them, as they are loanwords.

Previously, on Lucifer... (Winning Changes)

By u/Anjeez929 with 5 points:

>"Haka", a word based on the prefix "hak(a)-", means "Fish and Chips"
>
>My reasoning:
>
>French->French Fries+Fish=Fish and Chips

By u/RBolton123 with 1 point:

>Existing /ɕ/ becomes /ʂ/, still represented with <ś>. Similarly, existing /tɕ/ becomes /ʈʂ/, represented with <ć>.
>
>From there, /x/ becomes /ɕ/, yet again keeping its orthography of <x>, and /dʑ/ devoices into /tɕ/ and is represented with <ģ>.
>
>/n/ word-finally disappears, but it becomes /j/ in liaison if the word is followed with a vowel-initial.
>
>/ŋ/ nasalizes the vowel preceding it. In the case of ńi, it nasalizes the vowel after it i.e. the /i/.
>
>/ɲ/ becomes /nij/.
>
>Lastly, all cases of /ə/ become /a/, represented with <a>, and rhotic vowel harmony is dismantled. I'm sorry to see it go.

I'm just going to make all the vowels in a word that used to have rhotic vowel harmony into /a/ but vowels in prefixes won't turn into /a/ when added to them.

Consonats Labial Alveolar Retroflex Palatal Velar Pharyngeal Other
Nasal m n ŋ <ń>
Stop p b t d c k^(1) g
Fricative v s^(3) ʂ <ś> ɕ <x> ħ <h> ɧ
Affricate
... keep reading on reddit ➡

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👤︎ u/Anjeez929
📅︎ Dec 09 2021
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Blind Girl Here. Give Me Your Best Blind Jokes!

Do your worst!

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📅︎ Jan 02 2022
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French fries weren’t cooked in France.

They were cooked in Greece.

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📅︎ Jan 20 2022
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This subreddit is 10 years old now.

I'm surprised it hasn't decade.

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📅︎ Jan 14 2022
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You've been hit by
👍︎ 6k
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👤︎ u/mordrathe
📅︎ Jan 20 2022
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I'm sick of you guys posting dumb wordplay in here for awards and upvotes.

Don't you know a good pun is its own reword?

👍︎ 11k
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📅︎ Jan 21 2022
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My 4 year oldest favourit joke, which he very proudly memorized and told all his teachers.

Two muffins are in an oven, one muffin looks at the other and says "is it just me, or is it hot in here?"

Then the other muffin says "AHH, TALKING MUFFIN!!!"

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📅︎ Jan 22 2022
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Dropped my best ever dad joke & no one was around to hear it

For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.

I said "hey look, an escaPEA"

No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!

Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂

👍︎ 20k
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📅︎ Jan 11 2022
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What starts with a W and ends with a T

It really does, I swear!

👍︎ 6k
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📅︎ Jan 13 2022
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Why did Karen press Ctrl+Shift+Delete?

Because she wanted to see the task manager.

👍︎ 11k
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👤︎ u/Eoussama
📅︎ Jan 17 2022
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Steve JOBS would have made a better President than Donald Trump

But that’s comparing apples to oranges

👍︎ 8k
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📅︎ Jan 22 2022
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So 2 trees got arrested in the town I live...

Heard they've been doing some shady business.

👍︎ 7k
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📅︎ Jan 18 2022
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I just flew in from Chernobyl

And boy are my arms legs.

👍︎ 7k
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👤︎ u/JhopkinsWA
📅︎ Jan 23 2022
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Klojban, an Evolving Conlang XIX

Klojban, an Evolving Conlang: Introduction

With the downfall of r/EvolvingConlang and the rise of like ten others in its place, I firmly believe that a spiritual successor to it must be made. u/EkskiuTwentyTwo, if you want me to delete this, I shall.

Anyways, here is Klojban, named in the same manner as Lojban was to Loglan. Somewhat. It will have more rules than the other "add features by commenting them" conlangs:

  • The top three comments will be added instead of just the topmost one
  • The phonology must consist of actual phonemes; the grammar and lexicon, though, can be as wild as you want them to be
  • The orthography can be changed but it must be done in a separate comment.
  • If you want me to append a link to your suggestion, you can do so, but make sure it isn't NSFW or anything
  • Words added at the same time as a sound change do not have the sound change applied to them, as they are loanwords.

Previously... (Winning Changes)

By u/Anjeez929 with 2 points:

>I didn't realize you already posted this.
>
>The past auzilliary verbs shorten by one syllable
>
>Theoretical Past: śaha
>
>Mythical past: uha
>
>Very far past: aha
>
>Far past: oha
>
>Near past: śeha

By u/NoCocksInTheRestroom with 2 points:

>add more example sentences

By u/RBolton123 with 1 point:

>ajkan /ajkan/ - (v) to be able to (can)
>
>otu /ɔtu/ - (v) to be obligated to (should)
>
>ajamwili /ajamwili/ - (v) to be willing to (would)
>
>ba /ba/ - (part) question marker
>
>Word Changes:
>
>sikśitasi /sikʂitasi/ becomes sićikasi /siʈʂikasi/ through epenthesis
>
>ekśikituwentitu /ekʂikituwentitu/ becomes ećikituwentitu /eʈʂikituwentitu/ through assimilation
>
>Morphophonology:
>
>/i/ becomes [ʅ] near retroflex consonants
>
>/a/ becomes [ɑ] near /ɫ/

(Bonus Words: owejuf /ɔwɛjuf/ - (n) egg [natural phenomena class]; fainali /fainali/ - (adj) final, finally; aweken /awɛkɛn/ - (v) to awaken, to wake up; awejik /awɛjik/ - (adj) awake, conscious, lucid; traji /tɾaji/ - (v) to try to do; kuros /kuɾɔs/ - (v) to cross, to go across, to traverse; borodero /bɔɾɔdɛɾɔ/ - (n) border, boundary [abstract concepts class])

Phonology

Consonants Labial Alveolar Retroflex Palatal Velar Pharyngeal
Nasal m n ɲ <ñ> ŋ <ń>
Stop p b t d c k^(1) g
Fricative f v s^(3) ʂ <ś> ɕ <x> ħ &lt
... keep reading on reddit ➡

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👤︎ u/RBolton123
📅︎ Dec 13 2021
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Klojban, an Evolving Conlang XXII

We're getting festive now! (Also, I wanted there to be one more suggestion, before I do this, but screw it)

❄️𐁙🎁 𐁙❄️ KᒪOᒍᗷᗩᑎ, ᗩᑎ EᐯOᒪᐯIᑎG ᑕOᑎᒪᗩᑎG: IᑎTᖇOᗪᑌᑕTIOᑎ ❄️𐁙🎁 𐁙❄️

With the downfall of r/EvolvingConlang and the rise of like ten others in its place, I firmly believe that a spiritual successor to it must be made. u/EkskiuTwentyTwo, if you want me to delete this, I shall.

Anyways, here is Klojban, named in the same manner as Lojban was to Loglan. Somewhat. It will have more rules than the other "add features by commenting them" conlangs:

  • The top three comments will be added instead of just the topmost one
  • The phonology must consist of actual phonemes; the grammar and lexicon, though, can be as wild as you want them to be
  • The orthography can be changed but it must be done in a separate comment.
  • If you want me to append a link to your suggestion, you can do so, but make sure it isn't NSFW or anything
  • Words added at the same time as a sound change do not have the sound change applied to them, as they are loanwords.

🎅 ℘ཞɛ۷ıơųʂƖყ... (ῳıŋŋıŋɠ ƈɧąŋɠɛʂ) 🎅

By u/NoCocksInTheRestroom with 2 points:

> add some christmas decorations

By u/Anjeez929 with 2 points:

> Since this is the 21st post, I will add najnplasten /najnplasten/, meaning "to add 2 to an answer and claim it is the correct answer". Because 9+10=21

🎅 Pԋσɳσʅσɠყ 🎅

Consonats Labial Alveolar Retroflex Palatal Velar Pharyngeal
Nasal m n ŋ <ń>
Stop p b t d k^(1) g
Fricative f v s^(3) ʂ <ś> ɕ <x> ħ <h>
Affricate ts <c> ʈʂ <ć> tɕ <ģ>
Tap or Flap ɾ <r>
Approximant j^(2) w
Lateral Approximant l, ɫ <ƚ> ʎ

1 - Represented by <c> only in the word cloń /kloŋ/

2 - Represented by <y> only in the word yaya /jaja/

3 - Represented by <z> only in the word zako /sakɔ/

Vowels Front Back
Close i ɯ <ı>, u
Mid ɛ <e> ɔ <o>
Open a

Vowel length is phonemic and is represented by an acute.

Vowel Harmony:

  • Frontness Vowel Harmony: If a prefix with /u/ or /ɔ/ is added to a word with an open vowel, /u/ becomes /i/ and /ɔ/ becomes /ɚ/ (thus triggering rhotic vowel harmony).

Tones:

  • Non-Grammatical (Phonemic) Tones: These were the result of a past sound
... keep reading on reddit ➡

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👤︎ u/Anjeez929
📅︎ Dec 21 2021
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Klojban, an Evolving Conlang XX

Hey everyone on r/conlangscirclejerk! Did you miss us? Well, in fact! We never left you!

Klojban, an Evolving Conlang: Introduction

With the downfall of r/EvolvingConlang and the rise of like ten others in its place, I firmly believe that a spiritual successor to it must be made. u/EkskiuTwentyTwo, if you want me to delete this, I shall.

Anyways, here is Klojban, named in the same manner as Lojban was to Loglan. Somewhat. It will have more rules than the other "add features by commenting them" conlangs:

  • The top three comments will be added instead of just the topmost one
  • The phonology must consist of actual phonemes; the grammar and lexicon, though, can be as wild as you want them to be
  • The orthography can be changed but it must be done in a separate comment.
  • If you want me to append a link to your suggestion, you can do so, but make sure it isn't NSFW or anything
  • Words added at the same time as a sound change do not have the sound change applied to them, as they are loanwords.

Previously... (Winning Changes)

By u/NoCocksInTheRestroom with 2 points:

>add almost 30 ways to say cum in toki pona as official vocabulary

New words: "telo" meaning "fluid", "ko" meaning squishy, "walo" meaning "white", "umpa" meaning "sex", "olin" meaning "love", "kule" meaning "color" is "colorful", "pilin" meaning "feeling", "pona" meaning "good", "pali" meaning "to make", "sike" meaning "round", and "palisa" meaning "stick" or "long and hard". Also, "telowalo" meaning "milk"

By u/Anjeez929 with 1 point:

>The first few lines of the Bee movie script as an example!
>
>New words.
>
>-(n)et marks the passive participle
>
>Tana /tana/ - (prep) according to
>
>Sona /sona/ - (v) to know
>
>lawa /lawa/ - (n) laws
>
>tawaso /tawaso/ - (v) to fly ("Flight" and therefore "aviation" is made by nominalizing it)
>
>Majkel /majkel/ - (n) Bee
>
>Redbul /ɾedbul/ - (n) wings
>
>Tu /tu/ - (adv) too (as in too small)
>
>lili /lili/ - (adj) small
>
>haja /ħaja/ - (v) lift
>
>fat /fat/ - (adj) fat (n) fat
>
>korpa /koɾpa/ - (n) bo

... keep reading on reddit ➡

👍︎ 3
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👤︎ u/Anjeez929
📅︎ Dec 15 2021
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Klojban, an Evolving Conlang XVIII

I hated editing this. u/Anjeez929 is braver than any Marine

Klojban, an Evolving Conlang: Introduction

With the downfall of r/EvolvingConlang and the rise of like ten others in its place, I firmly believe that a spiritual successor to it must be made. u/EkskiuTwentyTwo, if you want me to delete this, I shall.

Anyways, here is Klojban, named in the same manner as Lojban was to Loglan. Somewhat. It will have more rules than the other "add features by commenting them" conlangs:

  • The top three comments will be added instead of just the topmost one
  • The phonology must consist of actual phonemes; the grammar and lexicon, though, can be as wild as you want them to be
  • The orthography can be changed but it must be done in a separate comment.
  • If you want me to append a link to your suggestion, you can do so, but make sure it isn't NSFW or anything
  • Words added at the same time as a sound change do not have the sound change applied to them, as they are loanwords.

Previously, on Lucifer... (Winning Changes)

By u/spaceman06 with 2 points:

>Each letter has a phoneme that is only used to see the letter itself (or combination of phonemes used by the letter itself).
>
>This avoids something that happens at languages, like C and SEE being spoken at the same way.
>
>You also wont have a consonant 1, where CONSONANT1 and CONSONANT1 followed by VOWEL1 means the same thing. Like B and BE at english.

By u/RBolton123 with 1 point:

>Can't think of anything major so I'll just change some things to make the language easier to pronounce.
>
>Parallel Tenses
>
>Parallel Present—paha(p)-
>
>Parallel Scary Present of our reality —tuhu(t)-
>
>Parallel General Past—kihi(t)-
>
>Parallel General future—cehe(t)-
>
>a time existing outside of the comprehension of arbitrary scales— aha(p)-
>
>/ɾij/ vanishes completely. If two of the same vowel are next to each other, they become one long vowel
>
>/ɧ/ becomes /ɕuf/ with /f/ <f> becoming a new phoneme. Also a new word using /f/, friholes /fɾiħɔlɛs/ - (n) bean (natural concepts class)

Consonants Labial Alveolar Retroflex Palatal Velar Pharyngeal
Nasal m n ɲ <ñ> ŋ <ń>
Stop p b t d c k^(1) g
Fricative f v s^(3) ʂ <ś> ɕ <x> ħ <h>
Affricate ʈʂ <ć> tɕ <ģ>
Tap or Flap ɾ <r>
Approximant j^(2) w
Lateral Approximant l, ɫ
... keep reading on reddit ➡

👍︎ 5
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👤︎ u/RBolton123
📅︎ Dec 12 2021
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Klojban, an Evolving Conlang XIV

Klojban, an Evolving Conlang: Introduction

With the downfall of r/EvolvingConlang and the rise of like ten others in its place, I firmly believe that a spiritual successor to it must be made. u/EkskiuTwentyTwo, if you want me to delete this, I shall.

Anyways, here is Klojban, named in the same manner as Lojban was to Loglan. Somewhat. It will have more rules than the other "add features by commenting them" conlangs:

  • The top three comments will be added instead of just the topmost one
  • The phonology must consist of actual phonemes; the grammar and lexicon, though, can be as wild as you want them to be
  • The orthography can be changed but it must be done in a separate comment.
  • If you want me to append a link to your suggestion, you can do so, but make sure it isn't NSFW or anything
  • Words added at the same time as a sound change do not have the sound change applied to them, as they are loanwords.

Previously, on Lucifer... (Winning Changes)

By u/Anjeez929 with 2 points:

>The word Yaya /jaja/ means Baby.
>
>If The word Cloń can have an irregular spelling, Why not Yaya?

By u/NoCocksInTheRestroom with 2 points:

>New tenses for parallel timelines! (parallel shortened to "par")
>
>par Present—pha(p)-
>
>par scary Present of our reality —thu(t)-
>
>par General Past—khi(t)-
>
>par General future—che(t)-
>
>a time existing outside of the comprehensom of arbitrary scales— a(p)-

By u/RBolton123 with 1 point:

>Word-final plosives are lost, and the vowel preceding it gets a low tone.
>
>Word-final fricatives are lost, and the vowel preceding it gets a high tone.
>
>/ɟ/ becomes /dʑ/.
>
>/ɾʲ/ becomes /ɾij/.
>
>/j/ after another /j/ separated by a vowel becomes /n/. (e.g. /jaja/ -> /jana/) This change happens after the first one, so rjejin /ɾʲɛjin/ becomes rijenin /ɾijɛnin/
>
>/ɫ/ is now represented with <ƚ> because Polish.

Consonants Labial Alveolar Palatal Velar Pharyngeal
Nasal m n ɲ <ñ> ŋ <ń>
Voiceless Stop p t c k^(1)
Voiced Stop b d g
Voiceless Fricative s ɕ <ś> x ħ <h>
Voiced Fricative v
Affricate tɕ <ć>
Tap or Flap ɾ <r> dʑ <ģ>
Approximant j^(2)
Rounded Approximant w
Lateral l, ɫ <ƚ>
Lateral Fricative ɬ <hl>

^(1) - Represented by <c> only in the word cloń /kloŋ/

^(2) - Represent

... keep reading on reddit ➡

👍︎ 7
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👤︎ u/RBolton123
📅︎ Nov 27 2021
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