Open Back Unrounded Vowel Puns

The Japanese /u/ got unrounded and now its fronted closer to an [ ɨ ]

Although not the most common vowels in the world, the front rounded vowels /y ø œ/ seem to occur much more frequently than their back unrounded /ɯ ɤ ʌ/ amongst world languages. Why is this?

Apparently, /ʕ̞/ is the semivowel equivalent of the open back unrounded vowel /ɑ/, so what would the semivowel equivalent be for the open central unrounded vowel /ä/? And I assume there is no semivocal equivalent for the open front unrounded vowel /a/?

I've noticed that a generation of middle class Britons (born around WWI) produced noticeably higher æ sounds

see 'as' in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9lmepH9STs

'massive' in https://youtu.be/A2xqgT5mtd0?t=15

'that' in https://youtu.be/qh29gBLoHVU?t=38

Can someone give a more technical explanation as to how to produce this sound and perhaps even speculate on why it disappeared from British speech?

I'm trying to find an easy way to explain to people how to pronounce my Korean surname 방 [paŋ].

I keep noticing Greeks who seem to "harden" the way they pronounce 'μι' relative to what seems to be "standard" (unmarked) pronunciation.

In other words, a word like νομίζω is typically pronounced like /noˈmi.zo/. And the tendency I observe is for people (who exhibit this feature) to pronounce it as /noˈmɨ.zo/, with the /i/ vowel pulled back to the position of a "close/high central unrounded vowel" /ɨ/.

Is this some kind of localized feature or accent (i.e. of Athenian speakers)? Or is it a trend among young people? I seem to hear it most frequently from younger people and, especially, Greek rappers.

Here's a clear example of it from a singer/rapper named Semeli (at the 1:28 mark of a Live Session), where she says, "Θα ξεκινήσω με κάτι που νομίζω..."

*As an aside (for anyone who might be familiar with Russian), this is very similar to the difference between the "soft" palatalized Russian consonant "ми" [mʲi] and the "hard" palatalized Russian consonant in "мы" [mɨ].

(Also not sure which flair's best for this post as there are many)

/e/ is the mid vowel between /i/ and /a/ while /o/ is the mid vowel between /u/ and /a/. /e/ and /o/ are very common. Yet the vowel /ɨ/ which is the mid vowel between /i/ and /u/ is very rare. Why is that?

(In other words, the cardinal vowels /a/, /i/, /u/ are extremely common and so are 2 of the 3 mid point vowels between them: /e/ and /o/. Yet the 3rd mid point vowel /ɨ/ is very rare.)

I'm trying to help my friend in Nigeria figure some stuff out (he's a language major in college). I'm not an expert, but I CAN turn complex English into simple English.

Seems like all of these are rare, but why?

They are so rare that Wikipedia only lists one or two languages with /ɶ/ while there isn’t even an article on /ɒ̈/. Meanwhile, /ɒ/ seems to be present in a larger segment of languages.

What makes the rounded “A” vowels so rare?

Many people here probably heard of fixing their OO vowels by creating a more open throat space but don’t really know how to do it. As I was practicing “I’ll Make a Man Out Of You” it would make my voice crack on the highest “YOU” part. I noticed my tongue would feel like the “NG” position on that one and it would screw up the vowel going higher because it’d feel like I was singing the OO through a really tiny space and getting tight in the back of the tongue from raising up too high like NG—-OO. So what I did was just listen to how a singer does OH and just do that too and then tried it in scale without getting the tongue to go into the NG shape. Then I tried to apply that feeling to an OO vowel without getting to the high twangy NG tongue feeling and it helped it so much sound so much better and feel better too in chest voice without the need to switch to a heady sound — however it felt like it won’t go any higher than that and still need to go into head voice higher than that area with that particular vowel. But doing that makes it sound too “classical” sometimes. I believe it was like F4/G4 area (adult male voice). If you guys don’t get what “twangy Ng tongue feeling feels like” imitate SHY GUY from super Mario or WALUIGIS waahhhhhhhh from super Mario—- or speak like a country southern person (from USA).

Same happens with EE (me) and IH (bin) vowels for me. They both wanna go into that sharp sounding NG position going higher like how Josh Groban does his EE sounds especially while trying to belt. Taking it higher would automatically make it “crack or flip” instantly even when I don’t want it to at the same exact spot. It always feels like it goes into the NG position. What’s funny is that I’ve been taught this NG position too when I first started singing in middle school 14 years ago and even in college singing courses... so the habit is hard to break. Seems like tuition never really taught me about EE, IH, and OO vowels but focused more on AH vowels whenever we did any exercises... but most of the problems myself and MOST peers I know — we all have issues with these THREE FREAKING VOWELS so we all go heady at some point because our voice feels the urge to switch and it’s usually a similar or exact same range spot as the other person! 😆

Around E4/F4 I think a ton of “baritone” pop singers do this sound too. It doesn’t feel too good trying to go past F4 like that keeping the vowel pure and consistent in feeling — sounds awful as hell trying to keep t

i am fucking Zonked

You can find a dictionary with IPA transcription (which is already difficult, any recommendations??), but the problem is it will list only the basic dictionary form, and not any conjugated forms (e.g morar vs eu moro vs eu morei etc). You can try to guess depending on where the accent falls but this is very difficult and there are no rules except for complicated ones with many exceptions.

You can go to forvo and try to find the conjugated form, but for most learners it's a question of being able to hear it and distinguish it so that's where IPA comes in.

I find this a major obstacle and frustration in my effort to master Portuguese pronunciation.

How do you deal with it?

Like it's darker and fuller on the "ee" vowels, and whiny on the "ah" vowels. I know it's supposed to be the other way around, but help pls lol

Based on wikipedia and what I have learnt, Proto-Mongolic had a Front-Back harmony system similar to Finnish which became the ATR system in Modern Mongolian except in Oirat.

However, I have seen some papers disputing this, and instead stating Oirat is the innovative one. But given they also quite supportive of Altaic, I am quite skeptical of them.

I also found a paper defending the palatal analysis. However, the website is in Finnish so I can’t really know how to read it nor could I find the paper anywhere else. So it appears to be a dead end.

So, is the ATR view of any credence, or is it just a load of hooey?

I’ve always struggled with opening my mouth a lot because I’m shy. I have no issues with vowels like OH... (i tend to default to overdrive and edge mode usually if were talking cvt here) but when it gets to the EH and AH territory I notice the only way they come out nice and clean past a certain point, I have to open my mouth more and be really encouraged to put more energy into it. If I am feeling scared and holding back the sound will literally cut off like when you stick paper over a vaccum cleaner. When singers like backstreet boys say “tell me why?” in “I want it that way”— I tend to usually make it “waaaaaaaa eee” which makes that part more difficult than it should. Made me sound like Waluigi no kidding because the original singer singing that i thought sounded nasal so I over did it. So I changed it to wAH EE and not nasal at all and it made it so much easier to sing that part.

Since February suddenly I can't sing with vibrato on open vowels, strangely I can sing easily with vibrato on narrowed, closed vowels but when I want the sound in a more forward placement (big projected open vowel) I just can't do vibrato. The other strange thing is that my open vowels (let's say belting) sounds more consistent in a straight tone (with no vibrato), but it's like I just lost the vibrato sensation and when I try to do it I feel my body getting tense, my shoulders kinda raise and my overall tone gets quackier, and I feel like a tension on the back of my neck, it doesn't hurt but it's bothering. I'll be thankful with your comments and advises.

Hi guys, I'm a beginner and have just discovered my mixed voice, I can sing a G#4 comfortably with a close Ee vowel (like in the word "reach"), any broader vowels require more energy and engagement in the throat, especially with a lot of tongue root tension. How can I open to sing smoothly with wide vowels. Thank you very much

https://archive.is/wip/29HNh

Does anybody find it MUCH easier and effective to sing a melody (especially one that is part of a vocal harmony section) when the pitches are assigned to lyrics with different vowel shapes?

I’ve written quite a few harmony sections with which I’ve tried to record; performed all on my own, however I usually do this on an “Ah” or “Oo” vowel - which tends to be consistently flat/sharp throughout the performances. Doesn’t help that I sometimes have to sustain a note for upwards of 10 seconds to hold a chord.

I’ve occasionally done the same when actually writing to lyrics, and I seem to have a much better grasp of the notes when done this way.

Can anyone explain why this may be or if it’s a relatable issue with y’all? I would love to be able to sing on consistent vowel shapes to get a nice “open” sound to my harmony sections; also so that I don’t have to always write lyrics to the things that I sing lol

Take for example the Old High German word markāt which became Middle High German market and then later markt. Is an this apocope or syncope? Can apocope effect unstressed vowels in closed syllables like the that of the market->markt example? Or does it only effect unstressed vowels in open final syllables?