Genuine question here, not trying to be cynical I love my community and the will always cherish the Jewish day school which gave me my Jewish education.
I'm just curious about peoples experiences as they interact with fellow Jews around them. I have some very deep lifelong friends just as I have some not so pleasant friendships. Everyone is different but sometimes I find that within my community gossip goes around a bit too quickly and lots of people tend to talk behind others backs and it can be tiring.
Where would Jewish people have primarily lived if Jews hadn't been persecuted?
And how assimilated do you think the average Jewish person would have been in this hypothetical?
HI folks,
Just discovered this sub linked to from somewhere else on Reddit. I'm aware that there are only 200 subscribers here and that the last post was 2 months ago but ... this looks like it might be a good place for this discussion.
Six years ago, I made aliyah from Ireland to come to live in Israel. I did so mostly for ideological reasons - I felt out of place in a city without any Jews and it seemed logical to live in a Jewish state if there were one. Literally no other reasons behind the decision and I have no family in the country.
Over the years, I guess you could say I've become increasingly skeptical about some things here. For one, internally, I see a lot of problems and challenges. I would regard some of these are pretty objective: the Times of Israel recently had a great piece about the insane housing market here. Renting in Israel is a mess. The cost of living is insane but ignored in every election campaign. Aggression seems to be everywhere, especially on the roads. Many things that I just never really "saw" during Birthright.
Politically, I've always been what I regarded as centrist. Broadly, pro 2SS. I've been dismayed to see that the dialogue around the peace process in Israel has become extremely right wing and nationalistic. Well, not so much dismayed at that. But dismayed at the fact that to simply espouse the non-radical belief of wishing for two states is to be considered something like an enemy of state. "Leftist" has become a dirty word here. We're excluded from the conversation.
Something else I've been noticing recently: it seems to me as if the Jewish Diaspora is (or has become) extremely intolerant of any viewpoint that isn't unquestionably supportive of Israel. For instance, I was observing some social chatter reacting to the aforementioned housing crisis article. Legit conspiracy theory stuff asking what the author's motivations were, was it fake news, etc.
I'm honestly quite curious to know whether it was always this way and I just didn't care. I still receive a lot of circulars from those in the world of "hasbara" even though to say it's not my cup of tea would be an exaggeration. They seem to believe in a fairytale version of Israel that just looks nothing like the country I live in. I would say "have your cake and I'll have mine" but they also seem inclined to invalidate any perspective that isn't entirely supportive - even when you live in Israel and they in the Diaspora.
Growing up in Ireland, with some Jewis
... keep reading on reddit β‘Particularly nowadays, I'm having a difficult time seeing, in the US, Canada or Europe, any activists, groups or followers of any political ideology willing to show any sort of solidarity with Israel or even support its development the way they would other North American and European nations. Nowadays it seems to be getting regularly worse. Modern liberals, progressives, leftists, conservatives outside the Christian right circles, their views on Israel seem to range from calling for severing of ties to Israel, seeing it as interchangeable with apartheid South Africa or fascist European nations or in need of being eliminated. The AOC/Ilhan Omar/Tlaib view of Israel? Most leftists and liberals outside Israel and the Jewish diaspora align with them or go even further and more militant. The only group going against this are the evangelicals and related Christians who see modern Israel as needed in Revelations. The Islamic world of course is a pipe dream and always will be. Positive relations are UAE - because the businesses opportunities were too much for them to pass up - and Azerbaijan - not exactly something to write home about given the current crisis with Armenia. And that's it. In just about every other Islamic state and community, from Algeria to Egypt to Bosnia to Iran to Kashmir to Indonesia, the hatred of Jews and the Jewish state is growing. And stronger among younger generations than older.
So what does one make of the fact that outside Israel and the Jewish diaspora, the sources of support are gonna be strong Christian rightists, often of the evangelical bent, over anyone else? Can Israel learn to embrace this? Even those who consider themselves progressive, left wing and/or irreligious ? It's an issue that it seems needs to be contended with in some way.
Having great grand-parents from Germany, Austria and Lithuania, I'm curious where their ancestors came from, going further and further back.
Thanks for any recommendations
E.g. Ladino, Haketia, Judeo-Arabic
Jews have had a comparatively large scale of dispersion from their homeland throughout history. The Babylonian and Assyrian captivities lead to the first two exiles, but the Roman rule appears to have a long lasting impact from which the Jewish population of that region didn't recover until modern history. In the late nineteenth century, before the rise of Zionism, Jews are thought to have comprised only 2% - 5% of the population of Palestine, which is astounding. In 1920, according to a British census, only 76,000 Jews lived in that region.
Although many ancient cultures in the world have lived under various colonial empires, the Jewish displacement from their homeland seems so massive in scale in comparison. Persians, for instance, have lived under various rules, such as Mongolian and Arab, but have remained relatively in the same area for thousands of years.
What factors lead to the disproportionate displacement of Jews compared to other demographics?
A cursory glance of the institutional (primarily American) Jewish world will reveal a near singular focus on Israel. And it's not just the primary preoccupation of the oldest and most venerable institutions (AJC, ADL, B'nai Brith, and so on), there's an additional series of Jewish, political actors who work to promote (usually) hawkish pro-Israel positions or monitor Anti-Israeli activity; The Foundation for Defense of Democracies, Democractic Majority for Israel, RJC, The Canary Mission, Honest Reporting. On the left/center, the political affiliation of the majority of Jewry, there's been an attempt to push back by creating dovish groups like J Street and the New Israel Fund.
Regardless of political persuasion, the entire bandwidth of world diaspora Jewry is dominated with the affairs of a nation-state that they don't live in. Consequently, I believe the identity of the diaspora population has been displaced.
The Diaspora didn't always have to live vicariously through Israel to affirm its sense of self. Pick up a Phillip Roth book and you'll get a glimpse of that world looked like - yiddish inflected, intellectually vigorous and constantly struggling with the human condition. What do we have now? A debate about ultranationalism. It's a subject that affects nearly every facet of Jewish life: endless articles about wether antisemitism is anti/non-zionism, the legitimacy of a diaspora existence, dual loyalty, misplaced allegiances and so on.
I can fully appreciate the connection diaspora Jews have with Israel given the myths (religious or other) that are drilled into us as part of Jewish education. Fine, but it's important to reflect on just how different of a society it is. Speaking an Israeli-Canadian, I can attest to the fact that the two communities have virtually nothing in common.
I think it's time for us in the diaspora to reflect on a rich (and tragic) history and not consume ourselves entirely with Israel.
I've put this list on the sub a bunch of times in the comments. But I thought a quick reference post would be nice. Here is an alphabetic list of the largest Jewish organizations in the USA:
- AIPAC American Israel Public Affairs Committee -- officially Zionist
- AJC American Jewish Committee -- officially Zionist
- American Jewish Congress -- officially Zionist
- AJPA American Jewish Press Association -- Zionist in practice
- AZM American Zionist Movement -- officially Zionist
- AFSI Americans for A Safe Israel New York -- officially Zionist
- ADL Anti-Defamation League -- officially Zionist
- ARZA Association of Reform Zionists of America -- officially Zionist
- ARZENU International Federation of Reform and Progressive Religious Zionists -- officially Zionist
- B'nai B'rith International -- officially Zionist
- Birthright Israel -- officially Zionist
- Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors -- Zionist in practice
- Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations -- officially Zionist
- Coordinating Council on Jerusalem -- officially Zionist
- EMET Endowment for Middle East Truth -- officially Zionist
- Hadassah - Women's Zionist Organization of America -- officially Zionist
- HODS Halachic Organ Donor Society -- indifferent
- JTA International Jewish News Service -- Zionist in practice
- IAC Israeli-American Council -- officially Zionist
- J Street - a nonprofit liberal advocacy group -- officially Zionist
- JCPA Jewish Council for Public Affairs -- officially Zionist
- JDL Jewish Defense League -- officially Zionist
- JESNA Jewish Education Service of North America -- officially Zionist
- JFNA Jewish Federations of North America-- officially Zionist
- JNF Jewish National Fund -- officially Zionist
- Jewish Virtual Library -- officially Zionist
- Jewish Studies Associations -- Zionist in practice
- JWV Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America -- Zionist in practice
- Justice for Jews from Arab countries -- officially Zionist
- NCYI National Council of Young Israel -- officially Zionist
- NBN Nefesh B'Nefesh - Jewish Souls United -- officially Zionist
- NFTY North American Federation of Temple Youth -- officially Zionist
- Rabbinical Council of America -- officially Zionist
- RZA Religious Zionists of America (Mizrachi - Hapoel HaMizrachi) -- officially Zionist
- State of Israel Bonds-- officially Zionist
- URJ Union for Refo
Biden's rolling out his cabinet and inner tier picks and many groups are pushing biden to step up the diversity (CBC, Latinos, asians).
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/01/biden-cabinet-diversity-lawmakers-442003
The Jewish community is enthused otoh that many inner circle picks have been jewish: Yellen (treasury), Blinken (state), Klain (chief of staff), Mayorkas (DHS)...with more to come (CIA, david cohen and transportation, rahm or garcetti).
For being 2% or so of the US population, this is exceptional. 22% of scotus (was 1/3 recently). the last four fed chairs, running for 30 years before powell ('87-2017....greenspan, bernanke, yellen), etc.
It's cool to see Kamala as VP or neera at OMB (though she won't make it IMO through confirmation), but if you actually work in DC or have worked in politics/policy, the % of staffers, think tankers, political media peeps, issue groups/lobbyists that are jewish is awe inspiring.
I don't see why the desi diaspora can't achieve what the jewish diaspora has achieved but it will take some changes.
One will but for parents in our community to encourage public service. Plenty of times I see that people love to tout that Indian-americans have one of the highest house hold incomes out of any group -- but that needs to be turned into power and influence like the jewish community has done so over multiple generations.
It means not stopping our kids or even supporting them (if possible) in taking that unpaid hill or dc/politics internship while they are in college or in their twenties, or supporting them taking that low level campaign or think tank job. It means supporting them getting involved in public discourse in hs, college, and beyond.
I think gen x and millenial desi-american parents will be better at this than boomer parents but it's something we should strive for in our community.
