Diegetic Music Puns

I'm doing the sound edit and mix for an indie feature, and there is a section where we want to lay in a music track but have it sound like its coming from an old record player and stereo from within the scene. Normally how I do this is use a HPF to cut out the low-end and then a slight LPF to cut out the very high frequencies and roll off the clarity a bit, and then add some reverb to match the room (usually through an impulse response). For some reason though, I just couldn't get it sounding right - always seemed just slightly too "polished" and detached from the scene. I did have some ideas to keep fiddling with it, but instead I went and tried something I've wanted to for a while but never got around to:

I went into my living room, set up a pair of cardioid pencil condensers in a stereo pattern aimed at my home stereo with about 4-5 feet of distance, and played the track through my stereo and recorded it. I had already applied some Izotope Vinyl on it to give it an aged feel (in the film it is an old record playing through one of those old turntable cabinets with a built in speaker), and then I laid the recording in my session and it sounds absolutely perfect. I did have to apply a bit of EQ to roll of the low-end produced by my subwoofer, but otherwise it fit right in.

I can't imagine I'm the only one to do this, and I imagine I probably could have gotten it sounding right with just some more tweaking of the EQ and reverb on the studio recording, but this was a surprisingly easy solution. I could see doing the same thing with the occasional ADR or SFX clip that for whatever reason just won't sit right in the film due to being recorded on a different location with a completely different mic setup, although I'm usually able to get those sounding fine with in-the-box plugins.

I understand this can't work for all situations, due to not having an adequate sound system or a space that matches the corresponding scene in the film, but primarily just the potentially undesirable coloration and fidelity-loss that could occur from the playback source and recording. I'd love to hear what other people have done in similar situations, and also if this is something that is ever done on larger productions at all. I've worked in audio post professionally for a few years now, but coming up in an area outside of the traditional film studio community (LA, New York, Atlanta, etc), I know for a fact that I'm not privy to all the techniques and tricks of the trade.

Something that I haven't seen discussed here at all is what we think the new show will incorporate in terms of music that exists within the world of the show. Game of Thrones had a number of songs orchestrated for the show and performed by the cast, most notably The Rains of Castamere, but also including The Bear and the Maiden Fair, It's Always Summer Under the Sea, The Dornishman's Wife, Hands of Gold, and Jenny of Oldstones. The inclusion of these pieces of music added a lot to the worldbuilding, making the world feel more lived-in and establishing culture.

I'm interested to see if the new show does anything similar. Obviously it is working from a place of less specific source material, so we don't really know much about what the music of this era is like. I think a very interesting opportunity that I would take if I were part of the production team would be to establish a Valyrian language musical palette. It could help to establish the Targaryens and Velaryons as part of the Valyrian diaspora and from a different cultural background from the rest of the people of Westeros, in a way that we didn't really get in GoT because of how isolated Daenerys was as a character.

I would love to hear any other thoughts.

Hello folks!

One question (that probably has no lore answer) sticked in my mind since I first heard >!the "muffled" End Times music playing while in the dream world!<: why do you think it's that way? Can we assume that it's >!played, in some way, by something inside the game physical world - so it's diegetic - or it is just a sound/game design choice to make clearer to the player that they're in a dream world?!<

I'm curious about your takes on the topic ::)

First, thank you for your time.

I'm looking for instances where the characters are conceivably / obviously hearing music within the scene. Any Star Trek media is fine be it TOS, the cartoons, movies, reboot. Not so much looking for fan films, but I suppose that could work.

Examples of what I seek would be the Punk on Bus 'I Hate You' song, or young Kirk listening to Sabotage by the Beastie Boys.

Not so much looking for scenes where someone is singing like the Doctor in Voyager or the characters doing opera. Pretty much any scene where someone is using recorded music. I suppose they could be singing along with it.

Ideally in a way that would allow me to find it semi-easily, please.

e.g. "It's the scene in EPISODE NAME where they are battling the Borg. Kinda in the middle."

Edit: Looking for instances where I can replace one song with another via editing.

Thanks for reading and future help. :)

> From Wikipedia: "Diegetic music or source music is music in a drama that is part of the fictional setting and so, presumably, is heard by the characters."

In the season 3 episodes, Pine Barrens and Armour Fou, the song ‘Sposa son disprezzata’ sung by Ceilia Bartoli to a haunting effect, is used in the end of pine barrens and immediately picked up after the opening intro of Armour Fou, when Carm and Maedo are in the Met.

I just thought it was an enchanting aria Chase has selected as a nod to Italian culture but didn’t realize til I read the lyrics what the underlying meaning was.

‘Sposa son disprezzata’ was borrowed by Vivaldi for his pastiche Bajazet. The song is about a woman who knows her husband is not faithful but cannot bring herself to leave or stop loving him, wishing for death instead.

When you line up Bartoli’s incredible recording of it, against close ups of Carm crying in the museum, as well as the end of Pine Barrens when Tony is driving the crew home (after a long night of fighting Gloria), you’re hit once again with the subtle genius writing from Chase.

Here’s the wiki on the song: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sposa_son_disprezzata

I, like most here.. love a good film soundtrack. I love the fact that a filmmaker will take the time in selecting songs that will complete the mood or tone of a scene that they are shooting.... however with most examples, even if the song fits a film or scene tonally it most often does not play an important part of the actual story being presented on screen... it's just a song playing over a scene.

However, what I really enjoy is when a filmmaker will make his/her selections for an OST diegetic... or music that is not playing over the scene, but playing within the scene itself. Music that the characters on screen are hearing, music coming from the scene. In approaching an OST in this manner, you make the music not only something that tonally fits a scene, but integral to the plot of the scene... the music itself becomes a character or a plot point, and I think that takes a considerable amount more effort from a screenplay perspective than just selecting appropriate songs to accompany a film.

So my question, what films have done this the best, what films have made their music selections inseparable from the plot of the film? What scenes in particular exemplify the great use of diegetic music?

The most obvious and recent examples are the OSTs for both of the Guardians of the Galaxy films. James Gunn has done a great job in selecting his music and incorporating that not only within the plot of the film, but how it has shaped it's central character.

But the two examples I'd really like to highlight are as follows.

Pirate Radio/The Boat that Rocked

I really love this film. The film is a fictionalized account of real life "Pirate Radio" stations that operated off the coast of England in the 60s. All of the music in the film is what the fictional radio station plays on air throughout the film. Great selection of songs from The Kinks, The Turtles, Jimi Hendrix.. If you haven't seen the movie, I really recommend it.

My personal favorite however would be Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou

Just an amazing implementation of diegetic music throughout the course of the film.. from the multiple performances of "Man of Constant Sorrow" used in the film, to the Ralph Stanley rendition of "Oh, Death", the sirens singing "Didn't Leave Nobody but the Baby". The Coens went above and beyond to make the music of that film it's own character... very much a reason that film is my favorite of theirs, and easily m

This is something I've been very interested in. The dissonant effect of two pieces of music at the same time is something that can clearly be exploited for creative purposes, but which I'm not sure I've ever seen happen. At the same time, I do recognize that it can be difficult to pull off well, and to find a situation in which you'd even need to attempt to do this. That said, does anyone have any examples?

I am looking for a movie where a character hears music and this results in a flashback to a memory of the character where this music was also played. Please help me.

(I have asked a similar question before and you guys have helped a lot but its too many movies to watch so maybe making my search more specific might help)

Non-diegetic music in film began during the silent era with piano or organ accompaniment. The trend continued in talkies, and it’s completely accepted by audiences today.

But what if the silent era never happened? Would non-diegetic music be seen as avant-garde or something? We accept certain movie conventions like the different types of montage/editing techniques that were at one time seen as revolutionary because we are so used to them.

But there’s no reason to think certain conventions were bound to happen, is there? I can see an alternate history where audiences are baffled by non-diegetic music, wondering where the music was supposed to be coming from in the scene and why the characters didn’t seem to hear it.

Would filmmakers have stuck with it, and after a generation or two of moviegoers had grown up with it, it would be the norm? Or would it stay a seldom-used technique?

Thoughts?

I think it would be funny and cool if the music in doom was being played through like a ear piece in the doom guys helmet and he could actually hear it while ripping and tarring

With the exception of season finale endings, season 1 ep 6 "The Wire"--the scene where Avon comes down to the pit such a weird outlier. It's the only other time they used non-diegetic music and it's takes me completely out of the show's world every time I see it. Between that and the fact that it is in slow-motion makes it the scene that is the least stylistically consistent with the rest of the show. It makes me think about how the sausage was made.

Does anyone know the story behind that? Was it pressure from above? Or one director's idea?

Hi guys I am doing homework about diegetic music in Life is Strange (2015).

Could you guys help me out?
I need examples of how it is built in the world of the game
For example, the skate guys in the first episode listen to rock (That is very similar to Tony Hawk's Pro Skater soundtrack) I also can remember Dana dancing on her bed and of course Max's listening to music on her earphones.

Do you guys remember any more moments that give us a hint about a characters' personality using music?

Thank you very much!

We've come to love musical performances from world star performers Dekkar and DKR and also renditions of the beloved classic, Oscar Fever, but there are also many other clever uses of music in the background of the On Cinema mythos.

My personal favorite is when Gregg is doing his 'Visit to the land of Bond.' Tim and Gregg are both arguing about it and this really intense music starts playing, which is hilarious enough. But then, at one point Gregg says that Tim is the reason that Mark's nose is broken. When Gregg says this, there's a crescendo in the brass section of the royalty-free Bond music that fucking kills me every time. It's possibly one of my favorite moments in On Cinema.

I'll post a link to it here: https://youtu.be/ANNOQWby8R8?t=6240

What's your favorite use of non-diegetic music in On Cinema?

Is the music in the game being played through Neku’s headphones or am I looking too deep into it?

Let’s go!

TPM

Mos Espa folk song

Desert Winds

Mos Espa arena band

Augie’s Great Municipal Band - John Williams’ ingenuity is in full display here.

AOTC

Dex’s Diner

TCW

Jabba’s Palace

B’Omaar Monastery

Ziro’s Nightclub Band - This piece alone shows why Ziro is different from the other Hutts

Seedy City Swing

Gha Nachkt

Hondo Ohnaka Theme - this is just a 🐐 track, who doesn’t love Hondo.

GAR radio track - this one goes out to the mud jumpers of the 224th, mucking it out on Mimban!

Da Hutt Moda

Cantina Music

I’m pretty sure there is a Mandalorian piece, a Nightsister incantation melody, the Naboo anniversary celebration music, and there’s some background music when Fives goes to the bar on Coruscant.

ROTS

Palpatine’s Teachings - The beginning part is diegetic if I’m not mistaken and comes from the opera.

Transition Period

Cere's guitar tune - This simple melody is so haunting; hopefully it will be expanded in the sequel to be Cere's theme.

Sugaan Essena - love the Hu and the uniqueness of this track.

There's a flute tune that echoes through Dathomir in Fallen Order

Glory to the Empire

Chicken in the Pot - absolutely adore this track, finally we have some criminal music with finesse and class. RELEASE THE DEEP VOICE VERSION IN HQ!!!

Zeb Rock

Jedha Street Music

ANH

Mad About Me (Cantina Band) - iconic.

Dune Sea Special - “whoo! chopped arm, anyways, let’s play!”

The Throne Room - I’m 99% sure this is meant to be diegetic, and the Alliance has a kickass orchestra on standby.

ESB

I’m not sure, though I faintly remember some tunes on Cloud City.

ROTJ

[Jabba’s Baroque Recital](https://youtu

Sorry if this post exists already, but seriously, I hate that I turn music to zero, expecting only the non-diegetic music to mute, yet ALL music mutes. I know this isn’t intentional, because the radios can be turned off and on. Is it really that hard to separate the two? Assassin’s Creed figured it out with shanties. It seems so strange that a game so set on immersion for the player doesn’t have the ability to adjust the most immersion-breaking aspect — non-diegetic music.

This is part question, maybe part discussion.

First the question: is there a way to turn off the cinematic music (the OST music that starts blasting when an enemy notices you. It doesn't seem to matter if they are fully aware or if they just spot you for a second.) but leave the radios, guitar players, etc on? I know there's an option to turn off the sound that occurs when an enemy spots you, but that is not what I am talking about, that is just an alert sound(which I did already turn off). Is this possible through some kind of config file, maybe?

The problem in CP2077 is that when you turn "music" under Sound in the settings all the way down, it turns down all in game music, radios, etc--all the diegetic music.

From wikipedia, >"Diegetic music or source music is music in a drama (e.g., film or video game) that is part of the fictional setting and so, presumably, is heard by the characters."

Here's a situation: I'm doing a mission now where I'm sneaking in on these goons, they have some metal music blaring from a radio, it's grime-y, there's broken down vehicles. The closer I get to the speaker, the louder it is, I hear cars passing overhead, some dock work, some goons chatting. It's actually really well designed audio. I then peak around a corner to hack a goon and the metal music stops, and OST music starts blaring. The enemy never actually saw me, just started to, but this music won't stop. So, I sneak back some and sit and wait and the music just continues for a few seconds, finally it stops with that "all clear" sound, you know what I mean, it's the same sound when cops finally lost you in GTA V. After another few seconds, the metal music coming out of the speaker fades back in. This same scenario happens no matter where you are, in a car/bike, a bar, etc.

So, I go into settings, turn down "Music Volume" under Sound, all the way to zero. The problem though is now, all radio music, bar music, even the guitar player npc is off.

I really don't enjoy cinematic music in games that's not in a cutscene. I know "ImMeRsIoN" can be a funny term to throw around, but in this case, I really do love having just ambient noise and sounds and diegetic sound only in games like this.

Now, in movies, I think both can work and often do, and often in tandem. As a personal preference, I gain so much more enjoyment out of really being immersed in a story that the characters are experiencing. A wafting overture can be good, but especially in the case of

By diegetic, I mean that the music exists within the game world so that the characters can hear it.

"Aria" from Star Craft: Brood War

Two characters listen to this track while indifferently watching a group of soldiers get annihilated. Aria seems to represent their status as cultured but ruthless.

"Berceuse" from Resident Evil: Code Veronica

This track is played diegetically in several different forms. It becomes a leitmotif which represents the game's villains. A fragment can also be heard in the non-diegetic final boss music.

I am a big fan of those specific moments in films where the director uses the music/score in such a way, so that the distinctions between diegetic and non-diegetic music get blurred and as a result the music pretty much breaks the proverbial 4th wall and becomes an even more prominent part of the storytelling. Some examples of such usage are:

1. In Miloš Forman's 'Amadeus', when Salieri is talking to the priest about his past life and his relationship with Mozart, there is a specific moment where one of Mozart's compositions starts playing in the background(the priest can't hear it of course) and Salieri starts conducting the music with his arms while his eyes remain closed. It is a beautiful cinematic representation of musical and sensory memory.

2. In Krzysztof Kieślowski's 'Three Colours: Blue', not only does her husband's music haunt the protagonist Julie constantly reminding her of the tragedy, but music is also used as a recurring motif to underline crucial moments in the narrative where she is required to make major decisions regarding her preferred course of action.

3. Satyajit Ray was really adept at using music in this particular way. I can think of two instances at the moment. First one is in 'Pather Panchali' where at a particular moment, the elder sister Durga starts dancing in the pouring monsoon rain. Slowly and gradually the sounds of the rain fade away and get replaced by Ravi Shankar's score. So she effectively starts dancing to the tunes of Shankar's sitar. It is a moment of sheer joyous purity. The second one will be in 'The Music Room'. When the aristocrat protagonist Lord Roy after an extensive period of abandonment, reenters his beloved music room, the camera starts to move and capture the crumbling opulence of the once grand room while the music from various past concerts held in the room starts to flood the scene as an aural, haunting relic of times gone by.

4. In 'Padre Padrone' by the Taviani brothers, in one scene, the protagonist Gavino in his childhood days gets brutally punished by his father which involves severe beating for being careless while tending sheep in the mountains. This violence gets followed by a sequence where we the volume of the natural sounds of the Sardinian mountainous landscape start to gradually rise eventually transforming into an operatic crescendo of voices. It is a cinematic representation of nature expressing its sadness in response to the poor boy's miserable plight.

5. Lastly I will

If any of you guys are into playing Star Wars tabletop RPG’s.

One of the things I notice helps is alien sounding music. Sure Star Wars has really good OST’s but that’s not something you’d hear playing on the speakers of a cantina or over the radio of a land speeder. Obviously we have in universe songs like “da hutt nuna” from the clone wars, or, since Jedi fallen order, >!the band The HU has been canonized as an in universe band.!< But I thought it’d be interesting to make a music dump post here where people can share music they think sounds “alien like” or that you could head over the radio in your ship.

I’ll start with the soundtracks to both splatoon games. The watery, bubbly voices make it seem like an ocean dwelling race like the Mon Calamari or the quarren would be the lead singer. Not to mention splatoon has some good beats in the background, like Inkoming or Calamari inkantation.

Do you guys have any songs or soundtracks you think sound like diegetic music?

A couple of examples:

Suicide Squad

Mission: Impossible Fallout

Kong: Skull Island

Not a movie but Marvel's The Punisher

I know it’s arguably a cheap tactic and I will probably get tired of it by the end of the year, but I cant help but get pumped when I see it in a trailer.

(This has to be three hundred characters so blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah)

EDIT: diegetic, not non-diegetic, I got them mixed up again.

One of the unique things about the show is it's use (or lack of) music. I always figured this had great effect, and added to the realism of the environment - how pretty much all the music comes from a source within the scene itself (non-diegetic sound).
At one point Prez is listening to Johnny Cash on the radio and it fades into a soundtrack, and music is also used in the end of season montages... however there is only one instance in the show (that I can recall), where music is played over a scene (diegetic sound). That scene is season 1, when Avon, String and Stink walk through the Pit. Scoping their chessboard, so to speak.
Anyone remember any other scenes where music was overlayed into a scene?

Hi! I’m interested in music of entities other than humans in science fiction. Have you come across such cases in books, movies, games etc.?

What do you think about the music itself? For example, maybe one of the most popular instances of such is Cantina Band in Star Wars. It is great music for iconic scene, but in the end, it is conventional human music. What makes a good diegetic scifi music? An idea? Audible end result? It would be nice to see a scifi movie where aliens would react to music, but as humans, we couldn’t sense it – maybe due to different hearing range or something similar.

Here’s a few examples of non-human diegetic scifi music:

Star Wars: Cantina Band aka Figrin D'an and The Modal Nodes, The Max Rebo Band, Ewok and Gungan music etc.

Mass Effect: Rachni song

Rick and Morty – season 2 episode 5: Get Schwifty. Band from the planet Arboles Mentirosos in music show Planet Music.

Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier. Paradise City at Nimbus III. There are no players around the bar, but it is probable that the music is part of their world (e.g. off-screen diegetic music).

2001: Space Odyssey. HAL9000 singing 'Daisy'. Maybe shouldn’t be in the same category, because the song is made and programmed by humans.

Bonus: I think it is interesting how Martians in Mars Attacks! reacts to music.

In case you don’t know, source music or diegetic music is music that the characters can hear. The most famous example in Star Wars would probably be the Cantina band’s music in A New Hope.

So I’m currently making a list of all source music in Star Wars as I rewatch The Clone Wars and while I just watched the old Droids and Ewoks cartoons. I already know the source music from the movies.

Does anyone have a list already or know of one? If not I’ll post mine when it’s done.

Are people really walking around Los Angeles in 2049 listening to atmospheric Vangelis-esque synth tunes?

So I split up a bunch of stems with the intention of actually binding them to individuals in a musical ensemble thats in my game, you can actually destroy their instruments which would trigger an RTPC or stop, but I realized you cant make one playlist split and come out of multiple source, (as for as I'm aware).

The main thing for me was that you could walk around the ensembles and hear instruments differently depending on where you're standing, so one sound source per instrument.

I figured I could do easily (but limited) using the regular actor-mixer but would this be possible at all with the interactive music hierarchy?

This poses an interesting problem I guess, has anyone done anything like this before?

This is something I've been very interested in. The dissonant effect of two pieces of music at the same time is something that can clearly be exploited for creative purposes, but which I'm not sure I've ever seen happen. At the same time, I do recognize that it can be difficult to pull off well, and to find a situation in which you'd even need to attempt to do this. That said, does anyone have any examples?