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"Here, she was forced to connect with people on a more human level and at the same time maybe realize that the glorious bitch-fest that she was capable of stirring may have not been the answer to everything. Some of that was my reaction to sometimes seeing her written as a type. It would annoy me. I know some people would argue with me, I'm sure they will right here, but that it seems very one-note to me. Just in general, when Emma would show up it would be like, "Oh, it's sassy Emma with her boobs sticking out and she's gonna make everybody feel bad!" [Laughs] I wondered what else was there for her, and maybe it was time to knock her down a peg or two and see what's there."
Source: https://www.cbr.com/giant-size-x-position-bendis-ends-his-revolutionary-uncanny-x-men-run-part-1/
I think it’s safe to say that most of us expect Wanda to play a villain role (not necessarily the main villain) in MoM, and they’ll probably be doing some rendition of “House of M” (whether or not that has to do with mutants idk).
If this happens to be the case, do you think they’ll ever adapt Jean Grey’s story in the MCU later on, or do you think it’s a one and done for the “powerful woman losing control” arc?
How many years exactly were supposed to have spun between Stan Lee's OG X-Men comics and the Dark Phoenix Saga? Or was she early, early 20s?
I was watching the four episode run and had the comic on hand. It is insane how accurate the cartoon was to the source material. Even some of the images were like they pulled them from the pages. Only the minor changes in characters (Rogue and Gambit swapped for Kurt and Peter).
Given all the recent entries made about comics, I thought I’d get in on the action and write my own little piece on an interesting little saga in Chris Claremont’s seminal run on Uncanny X-Men, in particular his famous Dark Phoenix Saga arc that ran from January to October of 1980 and how its finale was born from a last-minute suggestion in a room full of angry writers and editors, and how it was undone with a retcon that you could only get from comic books. This is my first time doing one of these so forgive me if this comes off as rambling.
I AM PHOENIX!
To condense very long series of events, the first seeds of the Dark Phoenix Saga would be sown in Uncanny X-Men #101: Having just returned from a mission to space and suffering a deadly dosage of solar radiation, Jean apparently dies when her shuttle crash lands into Jamaica Bay, only for her to dramatically reemerge with a significant power boost, now referring to herself as The Phoenix.
Remember these details, they will be important later.
The following arcs would show her powers gradually growing stronger, while she begins to realize the overwhelming nature of her powers and trying to actively limit her use of them in order to not overwhelm herself. After a winds up getting separated from her long-time love interest Scott Summers (also known as Cyclops), she quickly begins being psychically manipulated into villainy by the mysterious Jason Wyngarde, later revealed to be the classic X-Men villain Mastermind, working on behalf of the villainously decadent Hellfire Club. After a climactic encounter between the X-Men and the Hellfire Club (featuring Jean in an incredibly revealing evil getup, Claremont’s horniness in his X-Men is an essay in and of itself), Jean finally loses control of her cosmic power, now calling herself the Dark Phoenix and ready to let loose on the galaxy.
Behind the scenes
Now for the sake of simplicity I’m gonna roll out the four primary players in what comes up next:
Chris Claremont - writer for Uncanny X-Men, started the run with artist David Cockrum on #94.
John Byrne - Artist for Uncanny X-Men. Jumped on with #108 after Cockrum left. An infamous pedant, gatekeeper, and an incredibly sleazy person, but that’s for another day.
Jim Shooter - Editor in Chief from Marvel from 1978 to 1987. A controversial micro-manager. Infamously stubborn when it came to his editori
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So I think the Dark Phoenix Saga is still one of the best X-Men stories and it deserves the praise it gets, one of the main problems I have with it is how it constantly takes control of Jean Grey's narrative and becomes an inescapable specter she has to deal with.
Don't get me wrong, stories by Marvel that explore the Phoenix Force are interesting, but my problem with the Phoenix Force itself and when Jean Grey is taken control by it is It's way too overpowered.
The concept of the Phoenix Force itself is intriguing in Marvel Stories, but the problem I have is that writers have made the Phoenix Force itself too powerful to the point where there aren't interesting or believable threats or things that can oppose it since those said-things or threats can get defeated very easily by the Phoenix Force and its host. That part makes the X-Men and its variety of characters, along with every other Hero existing in the Marvel Universe, seem inferior to the point where trying to stop the Phoenix Force and its host feels useless.
The original Dark Phoenix Saga is still amazing, but the parts of Jean Grey being a God-Like antagonist with no weaknesses or ways of how she and the Phoenix Force can be stopped is the only issue I have had since from a writing perspective, the X-Men seemingly have no fighting chance.
I know adaptation of the Dark Phoenix story would usually end with Jean Grey sacrificing herself so she doesn't end up killing everyone in the world, but the question lies as if there's no way to try and defeat the Phoenix Force and Jean Grey, then what's the point in trying?
So what I'm trying to say is I think the Dark Phoenix Saga is a good X-Men story, but when the writers make Jean way too powerful to the point of being unbeatable, no matter what, it kind of makes her a bit of a Mary-Sue-leveled antagonist for the X-Men and Marvel Universe, in my opinion.
Are the screenwriters and the directors solely to blame? Or the dark phoenix storyline is indeed difficult or too complex to tackle to begin with?
Been Watching X Men The Animated Series on and off for a few months. Really enjoying it, been making sure to watch the episodes in order and not skip any, but it was easy when it was just one or two episodes out of order. Now I just finished Phoenix Saga on season 3 and now the episodes on Disney + are WAY out of order here! Would it be okay for me to skip straight to the dark Phoenix saga? Or will I be missing important story stuff?
I have been creating rewrites of the original X-Men movies, and you can read the rewrites I had for the first three X-Men movies of the original trilogy if you haven't yet if you want to catch up:
- Rewriting Some Aspects Of X-Men 1 From 2000
- Rewriting Some Aspects of X2: X-Men United
- Rewriting Some Aspects of X-Men: The Last Stand
So now with the past rewrites of X-Men 1, X2, and X-Men 3 completed, It is time for me to take a shot at how The Dark Phoenix storyline could have been adapted in the original X-Men trilogy:
- These ideas are credited to TheComixkid2099, Nando v Movies, and themightyheptagon.
- The film will be called "X-Men 4: Rise of The Phoenix". In my hypothetical universe, the movie would be released in 2008. I had X-Men 3 released in 2005, which is 2 years after X2. The movie would get released 3 years after X-Men 3, which had the Mutant Cure as its main focus.
- The movie begins with Jean Grey as a little girl in a hospital room. She cries over the injuries her parents suffered in an accident caused by her latent psychic powers. A young Charles Xavier is introduced and he meets Jean while soothing her mental anguish, telepathically. Jean is offered a place at his School for Gifted Youngsters, which is a haven for mutants like her and him.
- After Jean Grey has some initial hesitation, she decides to accept Xavier's offer.
- The opening scene cuts to a montage following Jean's life after she's taken in by Xavier. With his guidance, she gains a better grasp of her powers and they develop a student/mentor bond that grows strong tinged with familial affection. During her late teens, she begins to form a romantic relationship with Scott Summers. As Mutants are brought to the school, Jean uses her telepathy to help them cope with their powers as Xaiver did with her. Thus, she decides to become the mutant therapist/counselor of the Xavier Institute and she dedicates herself to healing the mental pain and trauma of her students, winning their respect an
DM Armada and Wizkids were kind enough to share these Organized Play cards with the Dice Masters Community. We've had a chance to digest some of the goodies and wanted to share some thoughts on the redesign.
https://www.dm-north.com/dark-phoenix-saga-release-organized-play-preview/
Back in 2018, Marvel Entertainment did a “Too Long Didn’t Read” video on the Dark Phoenix Saga that completely ignored the retcons that came later. There were many people in the comment section telling them that their summary was wrong. That the Phoenix is the guardian of the M’Kraan Crystal and that Jean didn’t go mad but was under the Phoenix’s control. These people were clearly only familiar with 90s animated adaptation who had jumped to the conclusion of that portrayal being canon. But what gets me is that they are telling Marvel what happened in their own story, which they didn’t read.
I saw something similar recently when Doug Walker (aka The Nostalgia Critic) post his Dark Phoenix review earlier this month. I found it an enjoyable watch and appreciate his attempt to judge it fairly, but there was a huge flaw in his analysis. At one point he says:
>I don't even know if her violent moments are her being crazy or the phoenix possessing her i don't even know if the phoenix is supposed to have a personality
But why even presume that the force is controlling Jean’s actions to begin with? The very first trailer for the film promoted its premise to be about Jean becoming mentally unstable due to a childhood trauma that Xavier repressed. The tagline for the film says “Every Hero Has A Dark Side”, suggesting that the premise follows the same theme as the original story. The official synopsis even says that Jean is mentally unstable with no mentioning of the force making her do anything. It seems that the only reason he thinks that is because he jumped to the conclusion that the 90s animated portrayal was completely canon.
I also remember CinemaSins’ video on Dark Phoenix making the same fallacy. During the scene where Beast says that Jean killed Mystique because the trauma Xavier repressed made her angry uncontrollable Jeremy Scott says:
>I am having a hard time believing Hank would be so quick to source the issue as Charles manipulating a mind and not the strange cosmic phenomenon that he witnessed with his own eyes just a few days ago.
He straight up ignores explicit exposition and instead goes with the narrative that the premise is about Jean being taken over by a separate entity. Just like people did with Marvel’s TLDR video. I’ve even seen this happen with X-Men: The Last Stand where people insist that Jean is possessed by an evil entity and doesn’t have an evil split personality despite it being explicitly stated in the film.
Why are so m
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As a writer and New York Times best-selling author, I’m best known for my work on the X-Men at Marvel Comics, where I created characters like Gambit, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, The New Mutants, and many others. I write new stories every day, and my newest collection of work, The Marvel Made Paragon Collection, features some of my most seminal X-Men issues along with a brand-new prequel story for “Days of Future Past,” which I wrote and created exclusively for Marvel Made with my good friend Salvador Larroca. You can pre-order the collection at MarvelMade.net. I’m pleased to host my first-ever AMA! Looking forward to all your questions. All answers will be posted from the Marvel Official account and Chris is signing off with "30".
EDIT: Thanks everyone for your questions! We're all wrapped for today.
From Chris Claremont:
I am deeply, deeply appreciative—what the hell, let's do it again sometime! - 30
If you tuned into A Double Double 'n Dice Podcast, FOUR yes FOUR, Dark Phoenix Saga cards were spoiled! Have a listen if you haven't to hear Jocelyn and Kim's thoughts on the cards. Also, the dmNorthTV crew give their thoughts on the cards in the spoiler article. #ADoubleDoublenDice #DarkPhoenixSaga #DiceMasters #Podcast #Spoilers
https://www.dm-north.com/a-double-double-n-dice-present-dark-phoenix-saga-spoilers/
So I am about to start reading the Dark Phoenix portion of the comics and I am aware that I should read #101-#108 and then #129-#137 but is there anything I should read before? Just want to make sure that I won’t be confused on anything, thank you!
The Dark Phoenix Saga has been attempted twice by FOX but failed miserably and I doubt anyone would want to see it again.
Even if the MCU has plans to correctly adapt the story (third time's the charm and all), should they?
Like for real; if Kevin Feige comes out and promises that we'll be seeing an accurate, effort-driven adaption of the well-loved story in theaters with good writing, lively acting, and extreme action, would you still give it a chance and pay money to go see it?
If you do, how do you want to see it built-up through movies and what comes afterwards?
I wrote about why Claremont and Byrne's 'Dark Phoenix Saga' is one of the best comic storylines of the last 42 years, and why the movie adaptations weren't any good. Spoilers for a 42-year-old comic series as well as X2, X-Men: The Last Stand, and Dark Phoenix
I also have PayPal if needed
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