During the Peloponnesian War, the Athenians launched an invasion of the island of Sicily to crush Syracuse an ally of Sparta, however it failed massively. The main proponent of the expedition had to stand trial in Athens for a start.
For some information:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Expedition
https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Syracuse-213-BCE#ref1243684
Can the Athenians win however? And if they do what happens next?
Bonus: can the Athenians win the Peloponnesian war with or without the Sicilian Expedition?
I heard someone pitch a movie on a podcast based on these events and thus became interested in learning more about it. I too was interested in writing based on material and how long it could be writing my own work based on this subject.
Previous Posts
NL-Elects the Eponymous Archon of Athens - 508 BC
NL-ELECTS the Athenian Ostracism Election of 482 BC - Themistocles vs. Aristides
NL-ELECTS the Athenian Ostracism Election of 471 BC - Themistocles part 2
NL-ELECTS the Athenian Assembly’s Answer to Sparta’s call for Aid - 462 BC
NL-ELECTS the Athenian Ostracism Election of 461 BC
NL-ELECTS Reforms to the Athenian Constitution - 461 BC
NL-ELECTS the proposed alliance with Megara and Argos - 460 BC
NL-ELECTS Athenian support for the Egyptian Uprising - 460 BC
NL-ELECTS Delian League Reforms - 454 BC
NL-ELECTS Ratification of the “30 Year Peace” between Athens and Sparta - 445 BC
NL-ELECTS The Athenian Ostracism election of 442 BC - Perikles vs. Thucydides
NL-ELECTS - Athenian intervention in the war between Corcyra and Corinth - 433 BC
NL-ELECTS The Athenian answer to Sparta’s Ultimatum on the Megarian Decree - 432 BC
[NL-ELECTS The Impeachment Trial of Peri
... keep reading on reddit ➡It's in Thucydides. That the young men longed to see far places and couldn't believe that they might die. All the youth of Athens was drawing the map of Sicily on the ground. In imagination, they were already conquerors.
From The Great Fire, by Shirley Hazzard.
Hello,
So I’ve recently came across a post on instagram from a person I follow who specifically posts about Greek history ranging from the time periods of Greece.
Now I’m a casual learner and learn slowly not dive right into it and understand everything I read.
however I do already know a little bit of the Peloponnesian War that took place from I believe it was 431bc to 404bc if I remember correctly.
But my question is that I know there was brief periods of peace between the Spartans and the Athenians but when it came to the Sicilian invasion I’m curious about 2 things.
-
was the invasion during a time of peace between the Spartans and Athenians?
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Is what did the Athenians aim to gain from invading Sicily? and why did the spartans side with Syracuse?
In the fifth of our ancient history themed podcasts Carl and Beau chat about the Athenian's doomed Sicilian Expedition during the Peloponnesian War and Alcibiades' role in it, as related by Thucydides and Plutarch. If you have a spare couple of hours, why not give it a whirl!
Full Video: PREMIUM: Epochs of the Lotus Eaters #5 - The Sicilian Expedition | Lotus Eaters
https://reddit.com/link/ntk753/video/1r8ald1hj9371/player
So, I'm curious about this expedition because I'd like to think the Athenians could've taken Sicily if they didn't get arrogant about it. But I'm also curious what are the other specific factors that made the Athenians fail this expedition.
Continuing our colonization of Africa, our port city of Nuova Sicilia has done really well.
Hoping to continue with this success, as the port city grew and we have seen more traffic coming and going from the port, the governor of Nuova Sicilia has decided it would be proper to build a new dockyard and shipyard in the colony. In this way, exploration of the coast, establishment of a small local navy, as well as ship repairs could be conducted in Nuova Sicilia. This expansion has been agreed upon, as it would also provide a new work avenue for the population who can continue with the development of Nuova Sicilia.
In addition to this dockyard, further inland, a new fort has been constructed. This fort serves as the first line of defense against threats originating from further inland, as well as the last point of civilization before exploring further inland. The hope is that as more people move to the region, this fort will be their last supply point before furthering inland. It should serve as a crossroads for new cities as well as serve as protector of the new colonies being established. With this, locals will be taught Italian and be offered enlistment into an Italian-African army. They will be paid for their enlistment, as well as be offered the ability to relocate their families to live inside the walls of Nuova Sicilia.
Two more towns will be set up under the same philosophy as Nuova Sicilia, working closely with the local populace, encouraging trade and cooperation between the locals and the Sicilians. Liberatore Michelangelo De Lorenzo has done exceptionally well with Nuova Sicilia, and he plans to help establish several more cities in the region to then connect them to Nuova Sicilia. The region has not been fully named yet, as the only city is Nuova Sicilia, but if this goes well, the hope is that De Lorenzo will be able to petition the King to recognize Nuova Sicilia as a colonial territory.
Rumors have come in to Nuova Sicilia about the struggles that Nuova Napoli have been facing, but with such a strong start already, even if there are bumps in the road from here on out, Nuova Sicilia is already strong enough to weather the storm and continue.
While everything seemed to be going well in Nuovo Sicilia, Nuova Napoli was on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. This was quite unfortunate given the strong backing for both expeditions.
With the failures mounting, it seems that creating a colony for Nuova Napoli would be ill-advised. However, the land is still valuable, and therefore, instead of being focused on trading and forming a civilian colony, the focus of Nuova Napoli will be a naval base and resupply base for the Two Sicilian Navy and merchant ships. Converting this to a military colony will allow for the relaxation on efforts to hold a large population, and allow for a more specific focus. The harbor and the fort surrounding the harbor will become the main focus of this colony in order to provide enough ports for traveling ships, as well as be well guarded against foreign and domestic intruders.
Two Sicilies will maintain a strong bond with the local populace and continue to work together with the locals in order to promote trade, cooperation, and coexistence.
Looking back we can clearly see that it was a bad idea, was handled poorly and cost Athens the war but weren't there signs that this was a bad idea at the time? Was Syracuse even a threat to Athens at that point? What would've been a better use of Athens resources at that time?
Following the initial landing, it was found that unlike the colony being established further in the South, the Northern colony was met with far more hesitation and contempt. In addition our attempt to create a land route to connect our colonies was a logistical nightmare.
Prospero Vincente Abbandonato, was able to land the starting colonists, but with the locals not being as receptive it made it difficult. Therefore, Abbandonato will work to ease the tensions between the local tribes and the Sicilians.
He has personally led meetings with tribe leaders, giving gifts to these leaders in hopes of winning their favor. If successful, Abbandonato hopes that this will lead to more trade with the colony which will allow for the growth of the colony. The locals have been welcomed into the colonial establishment, and have been intermingling with the colonists as each learns about the others culture and languages.
Already, construction has begun on the new colony to build a fortified harbor. It is expected to take some years, but the hope is that with its completion, the new city will be one of the largest in the region. People continue to come over to the new colony, especially with uncertainty in Europe.
With promises of riches and land, several unlanded noblemen have traveled to the new colony in hopes of making a name for themselves, and have taken to learning the local customs and ways of life. These steps will hopefully improve our ability to survive in the environment as well the relations between Sicilians and locals.
We will continue to work to connect both of the colonies, which will then be connected to Two Sicilies as we hope to facilitate the transport of people, goods, and trade between the new colonies and the Kingdom of Two Sicilies.
Named, Nuova Napoli, this town is already considered significantly smaller than Nuova Sicilia, but the hope is that with the construction of the fortified port, growth will be seen.
With the colony almost completed, Nuovo Sicilia has become the beacon of colonization for Two Sicilies.
The new colony has been so popular, the city's fortifications have given it the nickname of La Cità Murata, or "The Walled City." Colonists continue to flock to Nuovo Sicilia, and the colony continues to flourish.
With the colonists and the natives working together, the colony has flourished and has continued to flourish. At this point, the colony has begun looking towards expansion along the coast as well as inwards. Expeditions are being readied to head inland.
With news of the reunification of Italy under Two Sicilies, it has greatly increased the morale of the entire colony. Trade with the natives, as well as back to Two Sicilies has been flourishing.
With an initial expedition sent for the southern part of the open coast, King Ferdinand II has also given his blessing for a second expedition to start only a month later to the northern part of the open course.
Charged with the expansion of our power, and the exploration of Africa in order to bolster our own power, another young man, Prospero Vincente Abbandonato, has been tasked by King Ferdinand II, to explore the African continent, and set up the second colony of our grand Kingdom. Following the relative trail of the previous exploration, this expedition will land some distance to the North.
Abbandonato has been tasked with setting up an initial colony, and begin working closely with the local tribes in order to earn their trust and respect. Trading with the indigenous population, we would like to eventually incorporate these locals into our colony, establishing them as people of our colony.
Taking the 18 gun Brig, Prince Charles, Abbandonato will have the blessings of King Ferdinand II, and hopes for the establishment of the new colony. As part of this expedition, a supply route will be established between this colony and the southern colony founded by De Lorenzo. Both of these colonies will then be connected to Two Sicilies as we hope to facilitate the transport of people, goods, and trade between the new colonies and the Kingdom of Two Sicilies
Building from this, as the war began in Europe, the start of the first Sicilian colony began to take shape. With a strong effort put forward by the colonists, the local tribes began working well with our people. As migrants moved to our colony, the town began to take shape.
With the colony starting in a port, the town began to form. Construction started taking place to build a fortification around their city and the port. Named Nuova Sicilia, the new colony worked well with all but one of the local tribes, though efforts continued to work closely with all the locals. Though fortifications are being erected, members of the local tribes are able to enter and leave with relative freedom.
It has become a priority to engage in trade and strengthen the relations with the local populace, and trade has been the means to accomplish this. Several of the people have begun learning Italian while our colonists have also begun to learn local dialects, fostering better relations and understandings between the people.
As the colony grows in population, it'll also expand its territory, reaching out to more tribes as we bring them under our protection.
Can someone please explain why the Athenians would do something as stupid as this?
All said in the title, thanks
Charged with the expansion of our power, and the exploration of Africa in order to bolster our own power, a young man, Liberatore Michelangelo De Lorenzo, has been tasked by King Ferdinand II, to explore the African continent, and set up the first colony of our grand Kingdom. Rumors have pointed to a coastal area that would be well suited for a colony.
De Lorenzo has been tasked with setting up an initial colony, and begin working closely with the local tribes in order to earn their trust and respect. Trading with the indigenous population, we would like to eventually incorporate these locals into our colony, establishing them as people of our colony.
Taking the 20 gun Brig, Principe Carlo, De Lorenzo will have the blessings of King Ferdinand II, and hopes for the establishment of the new colony.
During the Peloponnesian War, The Athenians and their allies launched a massive invasion of over 10,000 hoplites, several thousand auxiliaries, and over 200 ships in a disastrously failed attempt to conquer Sicily, in which all of these forces were lost. This failure in Sicily eventually led to their defeat in the Peloponnesian War, the end of their control of the Aegean, and led the way to Spartan hegemony>Theban hegemony>the rise of Macedonia> and the rise of Rome.
What if though, instead of spending their reserve gold and manpower on a insane invasion of Sicily, they had instead used those resources to invade the Peloponnese and/or Thebes? Would they have been able to win the Peloponnesian War? What effect on history does an Athenian victory in the Peloponnesian War have?
