I feel that when it comes to the general discussion of clever A Song of Ice and Fire characters, Catelyn I feel is to often forgotten despite being one of the cleverest characters in the entire series. Take for instance her storyline with Tyrion which features at least three instances of her doing some really clever things

1. When he first identifies her blowing her cover, in this situation she managed to turn this disadvantageous situation to her favor and pulls off one of the most clever on the spot ploys a character has ever done in this series by getting her bannerman to restate their loyalty to her before asking them to help her arrest Tyrion.

2. Then she manages to throw Tywin off her trail through her simple speech about taking Tyrion to Winterfell and actually outsmarts Tyrion.

3. When Tyrion tries to implement his whole confess his crimes trick she actually sees right through him and urges Lysa to hear him in private.

Also to defend her choice to urge Robb to pick Roose Bolton as his main infantry leader to lead the attack on Tywin, yes Roose did betray Robb later, but keep in mind that if Robb had chosen Greatjon like he originally intended then most likely Greatjon would've fallen for Tywin's trap at Green Fork and gotten most of their infantry killed. Also, remember that Roose only started to actively betray Robb after Tywin won the Battle of Blackwater which wouldn't have happened if Edmure had listened to Cat.

I think that overall one of her greatest skills is to improvise strategies in unexpected developments (think about how she saved Brienne when Renly died). I think the best example of this actually occurs during her Lady Stoneheart days when after seeing Brienne seemingly go over to the Lannister's side, she is clearly mad but unlike her fellow Brotherhood members who want to just hang Brienne, she actually sees how she can use Brienne to her advantage and a result she manages to capture Jaime Lannister. In fact from my perspective, if you actually compare to how Cat runs the Brotherhood to how Beric runs it I think you'll find Cat may be way harsher but she is also much more efficient in terms long term strategic planning

1. Making an alliance with Crannogmen (how else do you think that the brotherhood managed to successfully escape into the neck without falling into quicksand).

2. Actually having Tom of Sevenstreems infiltrate and spy on the enemy leadership.

I definitely think that assisting in the revival the Faith mil

Hi everyone! So, I love fantasy but I'm also a bit picky with my books. I dont think I ask for too much, and I'm forgiving of some things as long as it's enjoyable!

Popular reccs I've had so far: The Name of the Wind - I hated this, I'm sorry! I found the characters to be insufferable, and it felt like it was aimed at/written by a teenage boy. The lies of Locke Lamora - liked the idea but found it a bit boring, didn't get through much unfortunately. The wheel of time - currently reading, enjoying it a lot but I do find the portrayal of women really cringey.

Any other recommendations are appreciated, I'll give anything a go :) thanks!!

Who would win in a fight between Drizzt Do'Urden and every single named character in the entire Song of Ice and Fire series?

The battle takes place in a small forest in a field. Drizzt starts off in the forest, the rest of the characters all approach in a giant crowd from the east. Everyone here is at peak and has their standard equipment. Everyone on the GoT team is working together as well possible barring language barriers, etc.

The fight ends when every character on the ASoIaF is dead/destroyed, or when Drizzt is killed. Battle starts at sundown. No one knows anything about their opponents to start. Book and show feats are acceptable for ASoIaF characters.

Respect Drizzt

It's a new series written by this guy George R.R. Martin (please ignore the fact that his name is obviously ripping off J.R.R. Tolkien). The books are amazing! They're totally different from any other fantasy I've ever read. Be warned, they are very long, so you have to be prepared for that, but it's totally worth it.

There are two books so far. The first is called Game of Thrones (which honestly I feel could be the title for the whole series) and the second is called Clash of Kings. That one just came out this year. And now I've heard that the third book is already going to be coming out next year. I can't believe how fast this guy writes!

I highly recommend you go down to your local Borders or Barnes & Noble and get a copy now. You won't regret it.

I just heard that apparently there are going to be 6 books in the series. Before I thought it was going to be a trilogy, but now I'm even more excited knowing it will last twice as long as I thought it would! If he keeps up an average of two years per book, the series will conclude around 2006 or 2007. 2007 seems like so far in the future, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait. I am so excited to see how this series ends!

For those of you not aware of GRRM's original plan for A Song of Ice and Fire, the series was supposed to be 3 books at first in 1991 when he started working on A Game of Thrones. With the second book being called A Dance With Dragons and the third one The Winds of Winter.

There are a lot of things that are same in the original trilogy version and the current version-- Starks suffering(Sansa betraying her family, Eddard is beheaded, Winterfell is torched, Robb dies, Catelyn dies), Eddark Stark not being Jon's father, the threat of Others and Dany invading the Seven Kingdoms with a Dothraki horde and dragons.

The major storylines that were rewritten:

1. Catelyn goes to King's Landing as well while only Bran and Robb remain at Winterfell. Before Eddard is beheaded, he helps Catelyn and Arya escape to Winterfell. Only 4 Stark children. No Rickon, which makes sense given Rickon does not play a significant role in the current version.

2. In King's Landing, Tyrion befriends Sansa and Arya and becomes growingly disenchanted with his own family.

3. Jaime, Tyrion and Joffrey lead the Lannister army. Joffrey is an actually skilled warrior. Cersei and Tywin don't exist.

4. Sansa will bear Joffrey a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue.

5. No Red Wedding. Robb wins many splendid victories but is ultimately killed in battle. However, not before he maims Joffrey. (The first idea of Jaime losing his hand)

6. Tyrion leads a siege on Winterfell and ultimately torches the castle while Catelyn, Arya and Bran escape to the Wall. This explains why the direwolves attacked Tyrion when he was visiting Winterfell on his way back from the Wall in AGOT.

7. Lord Commander Benjen Stark does not give refuge to the Starks because "The Watch takes no part". It pains Jon Snow but he reluctantly agrees with his uncle. For this reason, Bran hates Jon which creates a bitter rivalry between Jon and Bran. But Arya is more forgiving...only because she realizes with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion continues to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.

8. Catelyn, Arya and Bran stumble upon the King-Beyond-The-Wall Mance Rayder as they go further north of the Wall but the

I read A Game of Thrones 5 years ago and watched the entire series without ever returning to the books. Even though I loved the first 6 seasons of the TV show and know a lot of what happens, my jaw drops at all the major events. I just read through the red wedding in A Storm of Swords, and even though I 100% expected what was about to happen, I got chills as Martin described the room emptying and the Rains of Castamere playing while Catelyn fearfully realized what’s going on. At the end of the chapter she is yearning for her family, going mad as she accepts death but doesn’t want them to cut we hair because Ned loves it and she is soon joining him. I had to put the book down for the night because I just wanted to sit and enjoy the masterpiece of a chapter I read. Here’s to hoping we get all 7 books because at this rate I’m just a few days away from finishing the first 5

I didn't root so much for a character since The Name of the Wind's protagonist. I literally devoured the whole 7 currently available books in a week. Yeah, each book is shorter than what I'm used to, but even so, it was a frantic pace considering my limited time. And now I find out the author will finish another series before picking up Cradle again. I can't estimate when, but if Patrick Rothfuss and George Martin taught me something is to not expect the next book anytime soon.

What a bummer, now my soul is void again. I will now keep wondering about Lindon and Eithan as much as I wonder about Kvothe and Jon Snow.

No Spoilers please

So, anyone want to comment on the depiction of races in Essos? I mean there's a lot to unpack there.

Battle of Ice and Fire

Hello everone, i want to share my own theory about long night and it's champions.

First, I'm sorry for my poor English, i helped from google translate, hope you can understand what i mean.

Introduction

The legend of the Long Night and AA has been discussed many times, but I want to approach it from a different topic. As you know, there are two fundamental forces in the universe of asoiaf, and we are reading the war of these two forces; ice and fire.

Power representing the ice side; It's called the Great Other. He is the god of death, of terror, of night. The Spirit of Ice.

Power representing the fire side; It's called R'hllor. He is the god of light, of life, of fire.

>"...The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." Melisandre

And this...

>"The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war."
Melisandre

Of cource from Melisandre's perspective "Great Other... dead... is pure evil" But if we could ask it to ice side, they will said same thing for fire side, yeah? So do not mind the words of good and evil. Just focus the sides... I always say "the war between ice and fire" is like same as Stark and Lannister war. We saw both sides did bad things(Arya POVs), and both sides had good reason for battle. Who can say Starks are pure good but Lannisters are pure evil? I'm a Stark fan and i cannot say this.

So let's return our battle. Ice side wants eternal winter and fire side wants eternal summer. Well, i can say both of this are not good something, this is not a balance. Imagine living in the heat of d

Iz zadnje knijge "A Dance with Dragons":

"We've had a hundred peaces with the Brackens, many sealed with marriages. There's Blackwood blood in every Bracken, and Bracken blood in every Blackwood. The Old King's Peace lasted half a century. But then some fresh quarrel broke out, and the old wounds opened and began to bleed again. That's how it always happens, my father says. So long as men remember the wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last. So we go on century after century, with us hating the Brackens and them hating us. My father says there will never be an end to it."

i kasnije: "[...] some of the histories were penned by their maesters and some by ours, centuries after the events that they purport to chronicle."

So the title speaks for itself, I'm searching for a book series similar to AsoIaF, something very historical but not so fantastical as to be ridiculous. I enjoy his politically driven books with subtle uses of magic and whatnot. I also appreciate the thick lore and historical elements and am having a hard time finding something similar. I know Dune and Wheel of Time, and obviously Lord of the Rings, exist but is there perhaps something less well known but equally as good?

Arguably the two most popular fantasies. How do you think their worldbuilding compares to eachother? Which is better overall and which does certain aspects better?

I never watched the game of thrones TV show, but I fell in love with the books, their characters, the story, and the writing style, do you have any suggestions for books that are similar to game of thrones?

So after starting to watch Game of Thrones I heard about the ASoIaF Tabletop RPG by Green Robin and decided to look into it. The game looks interesting, and honestly very good, but I was wondering, for someone who wants to run a game in that type of world is there an advantage to using it instead of simply using D&D, Pathfinder, or any other fantasy RPG and making the setting in that style? I mean I'm sure it's not hard to use a darker and grittier setting, ban or reflavor some races, and lower the level cap, but of course, having all that done for you is probably the advantage. So have any of you played the ADoIaF RPG? If so would you pick it for a game in a setting of that style or would you simply reflavor D&D, Pathfinder, or another Fantasy RPG and why?

Basically following the perspective from all sides of the major factions and those who are affected by them , (just nothing that becomes wacky like sci-fi or supernatural.)

When the Night's Watch isn't visiting, what's an average day like for Craster? He presumably makes his family do all the farming and household maintenance, he has no friends, he can't read, and I can't imagine his inbred daughter wives are sparkling conversationalists. I guess he could go hunting when the weather allowed it, but he couldn't carry much by himself.

So what's a day in the life like? Does he just drink and stare at the wall?

I started as Aegon The Conquer. Nothing really eventful there, I conquered The Seven Kingdoms and from there it was business as usual. I decided I would keep going till I lost control of the throne just to see how long I would last.

Fast forward about 5 or 6 generations I am King Maelor Targaryen, a lunatic who otherwise has great traits. As I played the game I would always check the other big houses to see how they were fairing when I noticed The Lord of Winterfell was a sick pneumonic Stark Boy of 4. His heir was a two year old brother who was also pneumonic, and a newborn sister who was also pneumonic. As the months went on the Stark Boy died, and soon his brother did too. The Stark Girl, Morgana Stark, survived however.

About 15 years later the white walkers started attacking the wall. Because I didn’t want to see a game end prematurely I started aiding the Night’s Watch. Because my vassals and the realm at large didn’t like me due to my lunatic trait I could only muster a couple thousand troops to fight the white walkers, which wasn’t going to be enough. I hired a couple mercenary armies and then marched north. When I got there it was a constant struggle and I got to where I wasn’t focusing on anything at all but the war against the white walkers. It was after a couple months into the war that the entire realm but the Starks, Morgana had a very high opinion of me, decided to crown my brother as King. Not wanting to sacrifice any of my troops fighting two wars I accepted it and kept on fighting.

The war score was -89 when Morgana Stark declared war on the white walkers. With a very large army now aiding me we took out the white walkers and saved the entire realm. Morgana Stark became called Morgana ‘The Valiant’ and was seen as a hero while my character started being called Maelor ‘The Black’ and literally everyone hates me but Morgana. I, a Targaryen, and her, a Stark, successfully saved the realm but we both ended differently. She is universally praised and Maelor is reviled by all. I lost my dragon, my throne, and everything I ever fought for. After The war she also declared herself the Queen of the North and got it, so while I lost a throne she gained one. If this was anything like the world of the books she will probably have songs told about her for all times. Thus this tale might be called A Song Of Ice and Fire.

I ended the game there cause my whole thing was play till I lose control of the realm anyway. Plus I thought that was a pretty ex