Shae Puns

So whenever the topic of Tyrion murdering Shae comes up, I notice a bunch of you lil boys try to play it off like she attempted to have him killed at the trial. Like her testimony was something to the effect of attempted murder.

And I'm going to explain why that's ridiculous;

First, nobody is going to kill Tyrion Lannister on the word of Random Washerwoman #3. The text makes very clear that the most damning testimony was Varys, with all of his notes and papers. Tyrion specifically remembers this while walking behind Varys in the torture dungeons, thinks about killing him, and lets it go.

Second, Tyrion specifically tells Pod to disavow him publicly, exactly what Shae did, because it would have put his life in danger to do otherwise. And if a squire from a noble family was in danger, what does that say about Shae?

It wasn't because she lied about him killing Joffrey, it was because she told everyone the truth about that 'giant of Lannister' thing she'd say to him in bed. He killed her because she embarrassed him. He basically says that right before he starts choking her.

She asked him to take her with him, which is ironic because his big anxiety with her was always this knowledge that she only wanted him for his wealth, and now she's basically offering to go with him, just him, even now that he's disconnected from all his family's money. He could have forgiven her, taken her with him, and lived in Illyrio's manse a lot happier than he was getting drunk and vomiting all over himself every night because of all the guilt and betrayal he was left with.

People will go to absurd lengths to justify Tyrion's shittiness, or even recontextualize it as heroism, when the books are very clearly building him up as at least a semi-villain.

Like, I see people try to argue that the wolves didn't trust him because of things that were removed from the books. And I mean...really? Really?? He's obviously not going to burn Winterfell, but how much of a hackneyed writer would George R.R. Martin have to be to put foreshadowing that big in his story and then not have it come to anything?

I’ve seen a shit ton of tier lists recently and Shae is always by the bottom. Why? She’s not a bad written character, she’s pretty complex. What she did to Tyrion was awful, but she always hinted at it, and in the end I feel bad for them both. Regardless of your thoughts about Shae as a character, her death was pretty gut wrenching. Tyrion killing what he thought was the love of his life with a gold necklace he gave her, and afterwards apologizing… it was fucking emotional.

My explanation for this was always that "Cersei and Tywin threatened her, or appealed to her greed"

Issue with that is that as far as we know, Cersei and Tywin's objectives at the trial aren't the same. Cersei wants her brother hanged, Tywin apparently wants justice, and even seems ready to send his son to the wall rather than have him killed if he's convicted

Her being found in Tywin's bed seems to indicate that he's the one who got to her but her lies seem to serve Cersei more than they serve Tywin

I have 3 theories to explain this paradox

- Cersei got to her, while Tywin just got her in his bed

- Tywin has been actively working at his son's downfall (maybe since Tyrion asked for the Rock as his birthright, maybe because he seems reluctant to accept his father's plans for Winterfell and failed to bed Sansa)

- Shae had some agenda of her own, or was working for an unknown party

The first theory involves a freshly grieving Cersei outsmarting her father and I'm going to set it aside, because Tywin seem to know pretty much everything he always needs to know unless there's a very good reason he doesn't want to know something (incest for instance). Besides, from Jeoffrey's death onwards, Cersei shows nowhere near subtle enough to pull a plot against her father

This leaves us with either Tywin or Shae actively working against Tyrion, which opens up some very interesting possibilities. Could one of them have had a hand in the murder attempt(s) on Tyrion?

And lastly, if she's working for one of our master plotters, which one? It is very unlikely that she was recruited before her arrival in KL but Varys does have a weird relationship with her so...

Thoughts?

The store opened up on the first of December - located downtown in an older building that had been refurbished after many years of neglect - it had a sign out front which read, “Shae Tang’s Christmas Toy Shop.”

I saw it while walking down the street on my way to grab a coffee and it caught my eye. Bright fluorescent lights flashed white outside and giant nutcracker soldiers stood guard, flanking the double doorways at the entrance. The concrete sidewalk had been dug up and had been replaced with a tasteful grey-stone walkway. Huge Christmas trees were decorated with glittering gift-wrapped packages stacked up beneath them.

It looked like Santa's workshop at the North Pole, not your run-of-the-mill toy store. Whoever was running it had invested a good sum of money on the grand opening of the place - with everything from fake snow to people dressed as elves waving signs outside to draw in customers.

I couldn’t help myself - I went to go and look inside. I found the interior of the store to be just as impressive, if not moreso. The whole store was painted in reds, greens, and golds, and shelves were stacked floor to ceiling with toys. Many were so high off the ground you would need a ladder to reach them - and, sure enough, I noticed one being curiously steered by an employee as he glided around corners on it, going from aisle to aisle. The ladder was connected to a steel track which went all throughout the store and the small man riding it looked like he was windsurfing as he went around each bend and sped along purposefully. I had never seen anything quite like it.

It was early in the morning so it was quiet when I went in to be greeted by an older gentleman who I presumed to be the owner. He was wearing older-style clothing that I associated with the fifties or even earlier - a red-striped collared shirt and green vest made him look very festive. His cufflinks were tiny bells, I noticed as well, so that when he moved his arms or did anything it made a tinkling sound like sleigh bells.

“Hello, welcome,” he said, lowering his gold rimmed spectacles to examine me. “And a very merry Christmas to you, young man! I am Mr. Tang. Please have a look around and let us know if you have any questions.”

He was busy, I could tell, so I thanked him and began to walk around the store, trying to see if I could find a gift for my son. He was spending more and more time playing video games lately and I was hoping to buy him a present - something

No SSM (So Spake Martin) desta semana, uma entrevista que George deu enquanto passava pela Feira do Livro de Guadalajara.

A entrevista foi bem padrão, com as histórias que já ouvimos zilhões de vezes, mas há alguns pontos que achei que mereciam destaque:

1. George lembra que costumavam chamá-lo de George "nariz nos livros", pois estava sempre lendo ao invés de praticar esportes ou se socializar
2. Segundo ele, a Shae de Sibel Kekilli é melhor do que a Shae dos livros. Ele disse que a primeira impressão era de que tudo estava errado em relação aos livros, mas que sua opinião final foi de que a personagem na série é melhor, mais profunda e tem mais "realismo emocional" que a versão do livro. Ele ainda disse que Shae nas crônicas é apenas uma personagem terciária.
3. Ele responde que nunca mostra seu trabalho para a esposa enquanto está escrevendo, mas que quando termina faz cópias para ela e para as editoras americana e britânica. Então, de certa forma, ela é uma das primeiras a ler.
4. Não gosta de fazer tardes de autógrafos, pois não dá pra prazer a ele. Faz apenas para agradar os fãs. "É parte do trabalho".

E uma declaração de George que eu achei meio boçal: Ele acredita que o "mundo civilizado" tem o dever de encontrar um lar para os refugiados (sírios, nesse caso).

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Link do SSM: Entrevista no México (23/12/2016)

Last true Old Republic stuff was when Malak got released. We need more of these amazing characters, imagine Darth Malgus the Sith who keeps coming back after countless dances with death or Shae Visla once just a simple bounty hunter, then the fierce raider Scorch and finally Mandalore the Vindicator.

Something to bring our leftover Sith Empire to the stage and a Mandalorian that hit harder the more the clan or offering bounty hunters and maybe even Sith Empire with a powerful famous bounty hunter known for her love of fire. Either way seeing these 2 legendary survivors added to the game would be great.

Furthermore Eternal alliance maybe someday with a gravestone Flagship?

i was reading a thread where people were comparing her betrayal of tyrion to bronn refusing to fight the mountain for him. honestly that was the most idiotic argument that I've ever heard( actually lying on tyrion vs not committing suicide) I'm curious how you feel about it

There are no gods in Akavir. There are, of course, demon-spirits that were fathered by the shattered remains of the creation-spirits – after they unwillingly sustained Creation – but there are no true gods (in spite of what those knife-eared horrors would have you believe).

Despite occupying a godless World of beasts, the Tsaesci are remarkably pious; with sprawling temple-districts in most cities and a complex presbyterium overseeing much of public life, the Tsaesci are a deeply spiritual people. But instead of worshipping the creators or their princely offspring (if they had remained in any capacity), the Tsaesci devote themselves to a form of ancestor reverence.

They principally revere the Progenitors that invaded the fledgling World with their Fire-Egg in ancient times – whom emerged from the Great Crater afterwards and first established Tsaescence with [REDACTED] and are thanked therefore – but they similarly venerate all their relevant predecessors. Deceased kin are not understood as deities, but as incorporeal advisers: Wise men and women with lifetimes of knowledge and experience, with whom the living stay in contact by ritualized means in shrines and temples.

There are those that are born with an innate ability to commune with the predecessors, whom are often taken in by the temple-priests as wards. They can become the Shae: High-Priests near the top of the temple-hierarchy that perpetually commune with a spirit-council of their most remarkable ancestors.

The most famous, or infamous, of the Shae was Versidue-Shae, ward of the High-Pontiff of the Capital and Prime Wyrm-Slayer of the Dragonguard. He was said to count Xhaneras-Dehrak the Gourmandizer – an Exalted Crimson Drake-Eater whom was slain in the early days of the War with Po'Tun – among his Shae, perhaps explaining his affinity with hunting dragons. Versidue-Shae dishonorably left Akavir for Tamriel in defiance of the Emporer and the High-Pontiff after the emergence of Tosh-Raka, making great use of his Shae as a soldier and state maker.

the direction the show went with shae made the whole situation much more tragic. in the books it always felt like a matter of time before the gold digger betrayed him butin the show you were made to believe she loved him(hell I'm still not sure she didn't)

this made you feel exactly what tyrion was going through when he killed her. i was more shocked by her betrayal than i was the red wedding. i was more shocked her death than when he killed his dad.

seriously of all the changes they made from the book this one was the best

During my latest re-read, I've been trying to pay attention to some unreliable narrators and see what I previously missed in their POVs. Tyrion is a great character to look at - while there are perfectly explainable reasons for his paranoia and hangups rooted in his family trauma, those issues often get in the way of him viewing a situation clearly.

Shae Did Him Dirty

Shae's "betrayal" of Tyrion at the trial is a particularly heart-wrenching moment in ASOS. As readers, we know his baggage from the atrocity of what happened to Tysha and feeling unlovable from years of emotional abuse from his family. He has clearly projected a lot of his feelings about Tysha onto Shae, and now believes that they have begun a romantic affair instead of a business transaction. We know he loves her and thinks about her safety constantly. So when Shae takes the stand and lies about his involvement in the plot to kill Joffrey, including intimate details of their sex, it's a devastating moment in his POV. His rage at her when he discovers her in Tywin's bedchamber feels justified and almost satisfying.

However, if you're thinking about it from Shae's perspective, she is behaving in a reasonable way for the difficult and unfair circumstance that she has been put in. I thought I'd make a little write-up about Shae's unfortunate employment with Tyrion.

I: The Tyrion Lannister Benefits Package

We're told directly, from Tyrion's own POV, that the relationship between them is transactional. When Tyrion and Shae first meet, he's very clear about what he'll give her, and what she'll do for him.

>Tyrion decided they would get along splendidly. "I am a Lannister. Gold I have in plenty, and you'll find me generous … but I'll want more from you than what you've got between your legs, though I'll want that too. You'll share my tent, pour my wine, laugh at my jests, rub the ache from my legs after each day's ride … and whether I keep you a day or a year, for so long as we are together you will take no other men into your bed."

Even the first time, Tyrion realizes she is performing a job:

>Tyrion suspected her delight was feigned, but she did it so well that it did not matter.

It also might be relevant to include the fact that she didn't go seeking out service with Tyrion, but was taken at knifepoint by Tyrion's thugs and brought to him. Not exactly a comforting beginning to voluntary employment.

>"I took her from a knight. The man was loath to give her up

Shae's betrayal makes even less sense in the show. In the books I guess you could say she was always a young, naive, opportunist teen girl who thought it was a good idea to risk going to Tywin/Cersei to betray Tyrion, not knowing whether they would welcome her or kill her on the spot for being associated with Tyrion.

But Shae in the show actually seemed to like Tyrion. When Tyrion, Shae and Bronn were all chilling in the tent playing a drinking game, that actually felt like the closest to thing to an actual friendship (which I realize sounds pretty sad now since it's all people that Tyrion literally paid for...)

And when Tyrion, Shae and Varys were together in King's Landing talking and stuff, that also felt like a tightknit group. Shae did things that seemed to not make sense unless she actually cared, like helping out Sansa which was risky and other things she did for Tyrion.

Then when Tyrion sends her away with a fortune to live like a queen in a foreign country, she... somehow comes back from the boat without Bronn noticing, and decides to risk it all by conspiring with Tywin and Cersei? It makes no sense, and no reason to include it since it's not like the show necessarily follows the book's events to the letter.

I was able to understand book Shae's actions bearing in mind her young age and opportunist personality but show Shae not so much, especially when they made a point of developing her into so much more.

Ofcourse this is in LEGENDS. And was not even confirmed , just implied... Maybe , or it was just me that always thought so.

I mean Shae Vizla was there , she was the first to enter the temple , and is a Mandalorian who shares the surname ( albeit spelled Vizla instead of Vizsla ) with the maker of the Darksaber , Tarre Vizsla. I always thought their surname just evolved through time.

We know the darksaber was stolen in SOME attack on the temple by mandos so you know , i thought it was Shae that did it , when there was an attack on the temple that she led, it all added up. In legends. Specifically in SWTOR.

BUT , in canon it seems they changed the year when it was stolen ( if it even was stolen by Shae in legends in the first place ) from 3653 BBY -

To 1032 BBY

So uhh... That's all i wanted to say. It seems the Darksaber was stolen much later than i initially thought it was.

I wanted to ask this since I asked my Pashtun friend what does thing in Pashto mean and he said Shae. It is the same in Turkish as well. Everything also translates as the same in all these three languages (Punjabi, Pashto and Turkish) as Har Shae. I don't know how many more languages contain this word.

Can you guys tell me where this word came from and what is it's root.

Now, maybe the books answer this or something like that. But in early season 4 when Varys informs Tyrion that Cersei and Tywin knows about Shae, why couldn't Tyrion just say "Hey my father knows about you and he'll most likely kill you at any moment, please get on a ship and leave." I know she didn't fear them, but she couldn't be that stupid to think she and Tyrion could fend of thousands of Gold cloaks?