Donald winnicott
Hey all!
I’ve always had a bit of a struggle with reading Winnicott, and mostly engaged with Klein/Bion/Steiner.
I am now trying to familiarise myself a bit more with Winnicott and i’d be interested in hearing how do you interpret his false and true self in terms of the projective and introjective processes an infant goes through? How does the false self impact going through the paranoid-schizoid and depressive positions?
Anyone know where the incident with Winnicott and his patient breaking a vase comes up in a book or paper by him?
I can only find secondary references to it.
Thanks.
Looking for some quality secondary sources on Winnicott?--especially regarding his notion of play and playfulness in therapy and healing.
Thank you, community.
Hi, I'm working my way through Freud and some Klein. One way or another I have been engaging with many important psychoanalysts except Winnicott. Could someone give me some idea as to what he was doing and what would be a good overview of his ideas? Thanks!
this is maybe completely left field but im wondering if level of concern might in some way be referencing donald winnicott’s (a developmental psychologist / psychoanalyst) “stage of concern” where the child differentiates between self and other, develops the capacity for guilt, and begins to be empathetic, basically. ive been reading about winnicott and maybe im just seeing parallels because tøp deals so much with mental health but nonetheless the similarity struck me.
Lacan and Winnicott both score high in the priorities of my reading list. As little as I know, I quite like both, and both have the potential to become my favourite psychoanalyst. I have ordered the book "Between Winnicott and Lacan" which is based around the statement that the two are the most incompatible psychoanalysts that ever were. Could somebody explain why this is exactly?
Join us for our groups first paper by English psychoanalyst Donald Winnicott. He coined familiar terms in psychoanalysis such as true self and false self and "good enough" parent, amongst others, and influencing many other later scholars such as John Bowlby (attachment theorist).
Abstract
>An analyst has to display all the patience and tolerance and reliability of a mother devoted to her infant, has to recognize the patient’s wishes as needs, has to put aside other interests in order to be available and to be punctual, and objective, and has to seem to want to give what is really only given because of the patient’s needs.
>
>There may be a long initial period in which the analyst’s point of view cannot be (even unconsciously) appreciated by the patient. Acknowledgment cannot be expected because at the primitive root of the patient that is being looked for there is no capacity for identification with the analyst, and certainly the patient cannot see that the analyst’s hate is often engendered by the very things the patient does in his crude way of loving.
>
>In the analysis (research analysis) or in ordinary management of the more psychotic type of patient, a great strain is put on the analyst (psychiatrist, mental nurse) and it is important to study the ways in which anxiety of psychotic quality and also hate are produced in those who work with severely ill psychiatric patients. Only in this way can there be any hope of the avoidance of therapy that is adapted to the needs of the therapist rather than to the needs of the patient.
Paper
Winnicott, D. W. (1949). Hate in the counter-transference. The International Journal of Psychoanalysis, 30, 69–74.
Originally read in 1947
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330380/pdf/348.pdf
- https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Winnicott_Hate.pdf
When
Sunday, April 11th, April 18th, 2021, 1 PM Eastern
Where
Our 3rd Winnicott paper, previous of which were Hate in the Countertransference and The theory of the parent-infant relationship. Our group continues forward on the papers picked from Essential Papers on Object Relations.
Abstract
>The first possession of an infant is related backwards in time to autoerotic phenomena like thumb-sucking and forward to the first toy recognized as such. It is related to, and midway between, the external object (mother's breast) and internal objects (magically introjected breast). This intermediate area of transitional objects and transitional phenomena is made possible by the mother's adapting herself to the needs of the infant, thus allowing the infant the illusion that what it creates really exists. This area of experience constitutes the greater part of the infant's experience and is retained throughout life in the form of religious, creative, imaginative, and speculative living.
Paper
Winnicott, D. W. (1953). Transitional objects and transitional phenomena; a study of the first not-me possession. The International Journal of Psychoanalysis, 34, 89–97.
Dates
Sunday, 1PM ET, July 4th: First half
Sunday, 1PM ET, July 11th: Second half
Sunday, 1PM ET, July 18th: Reserved (if we need more time / to break it into thirds)
Where
>Donald Woods Winnicott (7 April 1896 – 25 January 1971) rose to prominence as a psychoanalyst just as the followers of Anna Freud were in conflict with those of Melanie Klein for the right to be called Sigmund Freud's "true intellectual heirs". Out of the Controversial discussions during World War II, a compromise was reached with three more-or-less amicable groups within the psychoanalytic movement: the "Freudians", the "Kleinians", and the "Middle Group" of the British Psychoanalytical Society (the latter being called the "Independent Group"), to which Winnicott belonged, along with Ronald Fairbairn, Michael Balint, Masud Khan, John Bowlby, Marion Milner, and Margaret Little.
I haven't read any Winnicott papers directly. Any perspectives? Favorite papers? Concepts?
Two of his papers is in Essential Papers on Object Relations (worldcat):
- Transitional objects and transitional phenomena (1951), PDF
- Theory of the parent-infant relationship (1960), PDF
Where does he stand today and your work / studies?
Is he an object relationalist or an attachment theorist?
Is his material proven / substantiated more or less than anyone else's? My understanding is he's connected with attachment theory, which is more clinically driven apparently?
TLDR at the end!
Hello!
Brief background on me: I studied psychology in undergrad and I’ve been seriously considering pursuing a career as a clinical psychologist or getting a master’s degree that would allow me to pursue a career as a psychotherapist.
I know next to nothing about Winnicott but my therapist with whom I just had my last session referenced him in a couple of sessions. I’m already missing my therapist and I feel like learning about a theorist whom he seems to like will make me feel connected to him. That said, I love nerding out over psychology so this isn’t just about missing my therapist lol. But because I miss him, reading Winnicott feels like a nice choice.
In any case, which book by Winnicott would you recommend reading first?
TLDR: Which Winnicott book would you recommend reading first if you’re a newbie?
Thank you!!
>Considers psychoanalytic therapy as an understanding, personal relationship rather than a purely theoretical one. The therapeutic styles of W. R. Fairbairn and D. W. Winnicott are compared, with Fairbairn considered more orthodox and Winnicott more revolutionary. The author's psychoanalyses with each of these therapists failed to resolve his traumatic amnesia, though each therapist prepared for its resolution as a postanalytic development. Finding a good parent-relationship, or in its absence, a good object-relationship with an analyst, is seen as a basis of psychic health.
Join us Sunday March 7th at 1PM ET for a reading of Guntrip's 1975 paper, My experience of analysis with Fairbairn and Winnicott: How complete a result does psychoanalytic therapy achieve?
Citation:
Guntrip, H. (1975). My experience of analysis with Fairbairn and Winnicott: How complete a result does psycho-analytic therapy achieve? International Review of Psycho-Analysis, 2(2), 145–156.
Where:
When:
1PM ET this Sunday, March 7th, 2021
Download:
PDF: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/98ef/10c07cbdcb15c3abf43cb9cee09c418806a6.pdf
I’m finding that I’m very much drawn towards an object relations and attachment-based lens as a psychodynamic psychotherapist. The above theorists have had the most impact on the way I practice, and I’m wondering who else I ought to be paying attention to who falls within that realm.
Our second paper by Donald Winnicott after Hate in the Countertransference. Join the generically named psychoanalysis reading group for another key paper excerpted from Essential Papers on Object Relations.
Abstract
>The main point of this paper can perhaps best be brought out through a comparison of the study of infancy with the study of the psycho-analytic transference. It cannot be too strongly emphasized that my statement is about infancy, and not primarily about psycho-analysis. The reason why this must be understood reaches to the root of the matter. If this paper does not contribute constructively, then it can only add to the existing confusion about the relative importance of personal and environmental influences in the development of the individual.
Paper
WINNICOTT D. W. (1960). The theory of the parent-infant relationship. The International journal of psycho-analysis, 41, 585–595.
Dates
Sunday, 1PM ET, June 13th: First half
Sunday, 1PM ET, June 20th: Second half
Sunday, 1PM ET, June 27th: Reserved (if we need more time / to break it into thirds)
Side note of intrigue
This paper was a discussion together with Phyllis Greenacre's
GREENACRE P. (1962). The theory of the parent-infant relationship. The International journal of psycho-analysis, 43, 235–237.
Where
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Despite the importance of his contributions, I just found the International Winnicott Association (IWA) to have training available in Argentina, China, Portugal, Israel, and Brazil. On the other hand, I think there is a fair amount being written on him. I am puzzled by the absence of IWA in Britain and other 'English' places. This led me to wonder who the major Winnicottian scholars and practitioners are, and how important their contribution is? What is new about those following Winnicott's model?
I just learned about Eric Voegelin so I tried to find about his philosophy and - during my readings describing his thoughts, theories and influences - it sounded to me that what he tries to explain about inner chaos and the search for order in the world, as well as the consciousness crisis in modern and post-modern world, was already full and clearer explained by Otto Rank, who, like Eric Voegelin, also had a criticism of modern and post-modern thinkers attachment to materialist science as a way to cope what was lost in consciousness.
It felt to me that Eric Voegelin tries to give a new interpretation of Otto Rank, Spiniza and Heidegger studies but from an strong conservadorism religious morality while denying it. Like Jordan Peterson who have a very strong conservadorism patriarchal christian interpretation of reality on his studies and talks but denying it.
Also feel that conservative and negativist thinkers about society (Jordan Peterson, Oswald Spengler, etc) do the same as Eric Voegelin in a sense of giving a more mistification and complicated alternative interpretation that was much clearer explained by other thinkers. As if Eric Voegelin tried to give an interpretation that could not be explained by the cientific community he criticised, since Spinoza, Otto Rank, Winnicott are today confirmed by Neuro-biology of Antonio Damasio, for example.
Am I missing someting or misunderstanding Eric Voegelin?
Week 16's Accuracy Round-up here
Thanks for this year everyone; it was wild.
And here is the sheet for the final week (week 18 will not be covered):
Week 17 rankings
The discussion is yours, take it away!
And if you have too much time during vacation, you can always read the earlier discussion topics:
- (Week 1) Different approaches to streaming strategy D/ST vs K vs QB
- (Week 3) How to set reasonable expectation levels from D/ST vs K vs QB
- (Week 4) Diagram with Predictability levels, for fantasy positions and for real-football parameters
- (Week 5): Check-list: Reminders for setting your line-up
- (Week 6): Weekly accuracy swings from kicker rankings
- (Week 7): Kicker component predictability
- (Week 8): Explanation of "Overfit"
- (Week 10): Comparing Predictability Levels of Recent Seasons
- (Week 11): Should you pair QB + K?
- (Week 12): D/STs for playoff weeks
- (Week 13): Betting line accuracy, week-to-week
- (Week 15): Pairing analysis: Correla
Thank you for this Winnicott forum.
I only discovered Winnicott recently. Due to the Coronavirus I had been studying the views of Rudolf Steiner on Pandemics. Basically some points stood out:
- That although the virus may be real the contagion/contamination is mainly psychic.
- That the psychic contagion and contamination is due to fear - in this case a shared and collective fear of Death; this being shared and transmitted at unconscious levels.
- That the immune system is the key defence. The immune system and its strength is the direct function of the strength of the sense of “I” or Self. It is the proneness to the collective fear which weakens the strength of the “I” and therefore weakens the immune system.
- Later, from Winnicott I have learned that the case of the fear of death is rooted in the infant: who dies many times to the primary self, each time constructing a false self, and losing the thread to the original primary self. This much weakens the sense of Self.
So I looked up references for psychic contagion and came across a video - from Shunyamurti of the Satyoga Institute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa-TNMSw47o - which introduced me to Winnicott by clarifying 4 points:
- That Jungian archetypal theory with its emphasis on the midlife crisis, and which assumes a previous stage of the development of the ego and adult, is in these times becoming increasingly redundant.
- The ego is now dying, so that children born in recent decades no longer develop what we of our generation knew as adulthood.
- The current youth and beyond are thus perpetual children with perpetual childhood issues and crises (not at all like midlife crises).
- The video then points towards models of childhood development/issues: Klein, Lacan and others including Winnicott. I explored all these and ended up with Winnicott.
I now have 4 books, including Playing and Reality.
After following and practicing for many years what is broadly known as Archetypal psychology/psychotherapy, it is indeed wonderful to discover Winnicott and object-relations.
As an aside I should perhaps add that in all cases of object-relations so far, in my case and my wife’s case, there has been found to be a powerful archetypal base. For example a “first possession” of teddy bear captured the archetype of the pole star as eternal reference, centering and guidance; and a foot fetish from childhood captures the Shadow/Oceanic Mothe
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Hey guys, sorry that some of you missed me posting last week, I was just kind of burnt out from all the work behind all this.
Anyway, the sheets had updated early Tuesday of course, but I overlooked that some of you count on this forum for exchanging opinions about streaming. So here you go!
Predictability: It's been a great 3 weeks for NFL predictability (which has nothing to do with my models). Recall that I had analyzed for you just how bad weeks 7-11 had been.
Accuracy: My models (overfit-free) DST/K/QB, still hang out on top. I want to remind you that I only show you guys my very favorite alternative top sources, based on my analyses in past years. You can always use them for an alternative opinion. I only compare against the very best.
Anyway the accuracy reports are here: For week 13, and for week 14.
Week 15 Sheet is here and updated as usual.
Pairing/Stacking analysis
Correlations between the different fantasy positions
This week, you can find my analysis free here at my webpage. Enjoy!
Previous week discussion topics:
- (Week 1) Different approaches to streaming strategy D/ST vs K vs QB
- (Week 3) How to set reasonable expectation levels from D/ST vs K vs QB
- (Week 4) Diagram with Predictability levels, for fantasy positions and for real-football parameters
- (Week 5): Check-list: Reminders for setting your line-up
- (Week 6): Weekly accuracy swings from kicker ranking
