I just saw that someone the other day posted a link to Vi Na wiki and was wondering if there was anything else out there similar to that? Seems they had an older project related to 𡨸喃 on fandom.com which was moved over to there as well, though that's about all I've been able to find. I'm aware of chunom.org and Chu Nom foundation's stuff, though just curious. Seems a lot of this stuff is pretty niche, huh haha. Some sites with scans of 𡨸喃 works would be super useful too!
As I understand it, chữ hán was the official writing system, but chữ nôm was popular with the nobles and the rest of the society that could read/write. Chữ quốc ngữ was introduced by missionaries in the 1600s(?), and then french rule imposed this writing system in the 1910s as the official one through educational systems.
S. Eliot and J. Rose in The History of the Book precise that Gia Định Báo was written in chữ quốc ngữ as propaganda from the french administration, and that many of the contributors were catholic, but what did vietnamese nationalists think of it? Was it supported because of its popularity only?
I also read that chữ nôm/chữ hán was not re-introduced as an official writing system because the forced chữ quốc ngữ rendered chinese characters "mostly forgotten". I am doubtful about that, I can be wrong by all means but I find it hard to believe that 1) it would be the only reason (I know Vietnam was under France's rule for a long time, but still) and 2) that there weren't voices against chữ quốc ngữ as an official writing system.
I also don't know if either side from the Vietnam War tried to bring back chữ nôm/chữ hán (as a nationalist symbol or because of its longevity before french rule) or if writers from the XXth century were numerous to publish books or poems in these writing systems.
I don't know if I'm digging too far, I'm simply a bit bewildered and I'm not sure which sources to trust. Sorry if my questions are too many & thank you in advance!
I went through some poems by Hồ Xuân Hương and also a bit of Truyện Kiều to find my answer and I'm still confused.
Source: http://www.nomfoundation.org/
So, in line 12 of Truyện Kiều, ' thường thường' is transcribed as 常常 , which makes sense since it's the same word. But in the actual text (ed. 1886, 1902), it has the symbol like the Japanese repetition kanji, so I guess that can be used too. That's not my problem, I just thought that was interesting.
Anyway, in Hồ Xuân Hương's poems:
>In Tự tình thơ, 'mõm mòm' is given as 𠻦𥊙 , which are different characters.
>
>In Mời ăn trầu , 'nho nhỏ' is given as 儒𡮈 .
>
>In Tự tình, 'văng vẳng' is given as 咏咏 , which are the same characters.
So in the case of reduplication with tone change, what would be the standard? Find a character with the same tone, create a character to represent the tone change, or just straight up reduplicate? Or does it just... depends and you have to memorise it?
Hey everyone! Just a heritage speaker of Vietnamese. I've recently taken an interest to 𡨸喃, the old writing system used for the Vietnamese language before the implementation of Quốc ngữ. Most of the past projects I've found regarding this script seem to be a few years old, or fairly inactive, so I'd love to be able to find a community of people interested in this fairly niche topic. Anyhow, feel free to join even if you've only heard about this in passing! ^^ All skill levels are welcome〜
Xin chào các bạn! Mình là một người việt sinh ra ở nước ngoài, và gần đây mình thấy muốn hôc chữ nôm.
Không có nhièu server cho nói về chữ nôm nên mình muốn tìm người nói với kk
Bạn không cần biết nhièu chữ nôm, nên đừng ngại join nhé!
吀嘲各伴！命𪜀𠬠𠊛越生𫥨於𫭔外吧近底𨉟𧡊㦖學𡨸喃。
空固𡗉server朱呐𧗱𡨸喃命㦖尋𠊛呐喟嬉嬉
伴空勤別𡗉𡨸喃停礙join𠰚！
Looking forwards to learning with you all anyhow. See you around!
Server Invite: https://discord.gg/WPSV8MuH83
are there any other ways to write - Việt Nam?
like with a older script - ie. chu nom or something even older?
I'm doing a medieval - 18th century project on the country, and any help would be very helpful!
Unofficial translation of Tran Nhan Tong story comic book from vietnamese quốc ngữ to old vietnamese chữ nôm 非正式陳仁宗漫画现代越南字幕到字喃翻译 Downloadable link 下载链接 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f-Ey-jno1RvnB1Khmnk6aj3jsgvhwLsc/view?usp=sharing
Link to pinterest:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/781163497852396381/
https://preview.redd.it/f8g9774a28741.png?width=898&format=png&auto=webp&s=1fbfdf2188fcfc6a6e26204b10418c014bca4d53
xế is 車, but what about the other characters. Thank you.
A French friend showed me this recently, and told me one of his ancestors brought it back from French Indochina during the 1880s. I think it's Chữ Nôm, given where it's from, but even if it's in a classical form of Chinese, I can't read it. What language is it, and what is the document about?
https://preview.redd.it/squaszbbrkf41.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f42a437a472c8f47bbef0e9859ea176102dc655
Well, as the headline suggests, my main question is how many people actually know it.
My parents (both Vietnamese living in Germany) told me that there are rarely people capable of reading and writting it. Furthermore, they say that the older Generation is not intrested in Chữ Nôm, whereas the younger Generation is a bit more curious about it. Is this true? - Speaken for myself.. im really curious about Chữ Nôm and wanting to learn it...
How can I acutally learn it? (besides chunom.org) I do know a little bit of Japanese (Kanji etc.) and am capable of speaking basic vietnamese (though i can hardly write)
Thanks :)
Hello I am interested in learning Chữ-nôm (𡨸喃) writing, but I must say that I currently cannot speak, read, write, or listen in Vietnamese. I plan to take Vietnamese in college and then from there possibly take Chữ-nôm at a university in Vietnam. Does anyone know anyone who can read/write Chữ-nôm? I would be interested in hearing where they learned it! Thank you.
On our Vietnamese-English Exchange Discord, we have a Chữ Nôm Channel for you to practice talking to other people in Vietnamese using Chữ Nôm! If you'd like to participate, you can join us here: https://discord.gg/r2EdJvJ
Just tell us that you're learning Chữ Nôm, and we'll be glad to point you in the direction of learning the script.
Chúng tôi trong Vietnamese-English Exchange có một phòng gọi là "Chữ Nôm" để mọi người cùng học chữ nôm và tập dùng chữ nôm với người khác. Nếu bạn muốn gia nhập, thì click cái link này: https://discord.gg/r2EdJvJ
Bạn chỉ cần cho chúng tôi biết bạn muốn học chữ nôm rồi chúng tôi sẽ chỉ dẫn tận tình cho bạn từ A đến Z.
眾倅𥪝Vietnamese-English Exchange𣎏𠬠房噲羅『𡦂喃』底每𠊚共學𡦂喃吧習用𡦂喃唄𠊚恪。𡀮伴㦖加入、辰nhấn丐呢： https://discord.gg/r2EdJvJ
伴只勤咮眾倅別伴㦖學𡦂喃耒眾倅𠱊指引盡情咮伴自啊𦤾之。
What was the written language before Chinese ideograms came into use called and what did it look like? My google fu may be weak on this one, for which I preemptively apologize.
Hello.
I've recently taken up interest in learning Vietnamese solely because I've been incredibly intrigued in the Chữ Nôm script. But of course, before I do that, I have to learn the Vietnamese language first.
I know Chinese and I'm currently learning Japanese, so I think I have a bit of the basics on how Chinese characters work. I wanted to what extent is this writing system still used today. But even if it has already been completely extinct, I'll still try to take it up because it looks fun.
Where should I start?
Thanks.
Context:
I’m a Vietnamese myself and have been studying chữ Nôm and Hán Nôm for the past few years.
I understand the complex history of Vietnam and that the topic of Sino-Vietnamese influences in our writing system can be controversial. With that in mind, I would like to have your honest opinion.
Choices explanation:
-
It’s obsolete and isn’t worth preserving. You feel that the old writing system is an obstacle to modernization and has no place in modern Vietnamese writing, or you just feel that we have no compelling reason to preserve it.
-
It’s obsolete, but we should preserve it as our cultural heritage. You feel that the old writing system, although no longer relevant in modern context, should still be preserved, i.e. studied by scholars and historians, used in ceremonies, offered as a higher-education course, etc.
-
No opinion/Neutral. You don’t care much about the matter or are fine either way.
-
It should be combined with a phonetic system for modern daily use. Think the Japanese writing system that uses both Han characters (Kanji) and a native phonetic script of their own (hiragana+katakana). You feel that Han Nom can be incorporated into modern daily use by making a hybrid system in which Han Nom is complemented by a phonetic system. This system can be the existing Latin-based Quốc Ngữ, adaptation of an existing phonetic system (Sanskrit, Mongolian, Hangul...) or an entirely new invented script.
-
It should be revived for modern daily use. You feel that it would be beneficial to standardize and revive the old writing system so that it can replace the current Latin-based Quốc Ngữ as the main writing system for Vietnamese.
-
Other (please comment down below) Maybe I missed something?
If possible, I would also like to know your reasonings in the comment section.
Disclaimers:
I am myself leaning toward the 4th choice. I have developed my own hybrid Hán Nôm - phonetic writing system for Vietnamese over in r/neography. More info can be found in my profile.
I understand that my predisposition might make this poll biased. Please let me know if I can improve my wording/approach for this poll to be more neutral.
**Any and all opinions are welcomed, and I hope we can get a fair representation of everyone. Only rule is to be civil and respect other
... keep reading on reddit ➡Chả là hôm qua tao có vật nhau ở bên topic này https://www.reddit.com/r/TroChuyenLinhTinh/comments/q77fxk/%C3%B4ng_park_n%C3%B3i_%C4%91%C3%BAng_c%C3%A1i_s%E1%BB%B1_ph%C5%A9_c%E1%BB%A7a_h%E1%BB%87_th%E1%BB%91ng_media/ thấy khá nhiều upvote, dường như người hâm mộ nước nhà đang bị dắt mũi rằng bóng đá Việt Nam là nạn nhân của VAR, bị trọng tài xử ép nên tao xin phép mạn đàm chút về luật lá trong bóng đá. Mục tiêu chính là minh oan cho anh Tài cùng tổ Var =))) cảnh báo là bài sẽ tương đối dài, kính mong bọn mày hãy đọc hết để có cái nhìn khách quan nhất:
- Thứ nhất: tao sẽ nói về 2 quả pen của Tấn Tài và Duy Mạnh:
Hai pha này Tài đúng 100%, không cần phải bàn cãi, nhiều người sẽ lấy lý do dang tay để lấy thăng bằng khi tiếp đất. NHƯNG, không thằng nào dang tay thẳng tưng một góc 30 độ về phía sau như thằng Mạnh cả, có rất nhiều kiểu dang tay lấy thăng bằng khi tiếp đất, chủ yếu là khuỷu tay sẽ co vào 1 góc khoảng 45 độ hướng về phía ngực (như đánh củi trỏ) lúc tiếp đất. Chưa kể, khi chân Duy Mạnh tiếp đất mà tay vẫn cứ vung với biên độ gần như là cực đại vả vào mặt cầu thủ Oman. https://imgur.com/a/JKqbjzG?fbclid=IwAR37Iz8L0tVwueACJNVLtEFzOs6VEzBEczaZVaQj0e7T5xGB_u_A-Zc3A2M
Tụi mày xem bóng châu Âu nhiều sẽ thấy trọng tài nó bắt rất sát, cầu thủ được dạy từ nhỏ trong vòng cấm tay luôn luôn phải thu lại hết mức có thể (giấu tay) khi tranh chấp.
Pha thằng Mạnh, Tài là hệ quả của lối đá tay chân miệng mất dạy Võ Lích, quen thói đá láo, tiểu xảo ở ao làng ra châu lục trọng tài nó thổi cho mới ngoạc mồm lên kêu. Đây không phải lần đầu thằng Mạnh đánh nguội, còn thằng Hậu cũng hay thế, Tấn Tài ở hiệp 1. Tất cả đều đến từ lối đá ao làng Võ Lích.
Trưởng ban trọng tài V.League Dương Văn Hiền cũng đã xác nhận rằng trọng tài bắt đúng trong hai tình huống penalty.
- Thứ hai: pha của Quang Hải:
Đơn giản tổ Var nó báo qua bộ đàm "anh tài ơi, đéo có lỗi đâu đá tiếp đi anh ơi" trọng tài chính cũng thấy vậy nên bỏ qua luôn, hai đội đá tiếp.
Cái mà mọi người nhầm lẫn nhiều nhất là đánh đồng việc xem lại video trên sân (On Field Review - OFR) và việc "check VAR".
Sự thực là VAR có check (khi đó có dòng thông báo trên truyền hình kiểu "VAR - checking goal" h
I've always loved creating my own languages and scripts, but I've noticed that I always go for a phonetic script rather than a logographic script because of how gigantic of an undertaking it is to create those.
After seeing how Hanzi inspired Tangut and Chữ Nôm, I want to try my hands on creating a script inspired by both.
Does anyone happen to have some experience with creating such script? How did you tackle it?
Personally, I'm mostly following the rules of Liushu (六書) of Chinese when it comes to creating more complex characters from base components, though I wonder if there are other ways to give it a twist.
Here's a cool spooky phrase for the season.(Pronunciation of the Chữ Nôm is "Hãy nhớ rằng ngươi sẽ phải chết")
https://preview.redd.it/kpt7o3uucww71.jpg?width=444&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f566bea113f2a36dd1743cdc05c25c6fe4c1ea2
Unofficial translation of Tran Nhan Tong story comic book from vietnamese quốc ngữ to old vietnamese chữ nôm 非正式陳仁宗漫画现代越南字幕到字喃翻译 Downloadable link 下载链接 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f-Ey-jno1RvnB1Khmnk6aj3jsgvhwLsc/view?usp=sharing
Link to pinterest:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/781163497852396381/
https://preview.redd.it/kuymndaa48741.png?width=898&format=png&auto=webp&s=e8e8e9c8a75b5685a75b51c2b6aba1e147375f39
Is Chữ Nôm considered as a different writing system descended from Chinese characters or merely Chinese characters used to write Vietnamese like "kanjis" in Japan or Hanja in Korea ? Can a Chinese understand a text written in "Chữ Nôm" ?
Hey guys, we've advertised here before, but for our Vietnamese learners who are interested in chatting in chữ nôm, there really isn't much places to learn about it if one wants to. Which is why our discord server has been extended to also help those who are interested in chữ nôm or who want to chat with others using the script.
On our Vietnamese-English Exchange Discord, we have a Chữ Nôm Channel for you to practice talking to other people in Vietnamese using Chữ Nôm! If you'd like to participate, you can join us here: https://discord.gg/r2EdJvJ
Just tell us that you're learning Chữ Nôm, and we'll be glad to point you in the direction of learning the script.
Chúng tôi trong Vietnamese-English Exchange có một phòng gọi là "Chữ Nôm" để mọi người cùng học chữ nôm và tập dùng chữ nôm với người khác. Nếu bạn muốn gia nhập, thì click cái link này: https://discord.gg/r2EdJvJ
Bạn chỉ cần cho chúng tôi biết bạn muốn học chữ nôm rồi chúng tôi sẽ chỉ dẫn tận tình cho bạn từ A đến Z.
眾倅𥪝𣎏𠬠房噲羅『𡦂喃』底每𠊚共學𡦂喃吧習用𡦂喃唄𠊚恪。𡀮伴㦖加入、辰nhấn丐呢： https://discord.gg/r2EdJvJ
伴只勤咮眾倅別伴㦖學𡦂喃耒眾倅𠱊指引盡情咮伴自啊𦤾之。
