Valmiki caste Puns

"Culture of India incomplete without Lord Ram:" Allahabad High Court urges Parliament to enact law to honor Lord Ram, Lord Krishna (barandbench.com)

https://preview.redd.it/57bfqkwlgks71.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=89cbc5d5c7a227766eb5ef952a9d1937907fe692

This is a very popular conspiracy theory which is believed by a major chunk of Hindus, particularly the so called low caste Hindus, who want to believe Hinduism is friendly or inclusive of them, classic case of Stockholm Syndrome.

And since alot of these so called low caste Hindus are getting educated and prosperous after independence, the so called high caste Hindus, particularly the Bramans keep on enforcing this belief of theirs to win their support & keep them entangled in this religion of theirs.

 

Here's what Hindu Scriptures say about origins of Valmiki -

Ramayan, which is considered to be the creation of Valmiki himself, refers to him as son of Prachetas (Varuna) - thus making him a Braman.

Ramayan 7.96.18 > I tell you the truth, O Rama, that these impressible twin brothers are your son. I am the tenth son of Pracheta, so, far from speaking untruth, it doesn't even spring up in my mind. I therefore know the truth that these twins are your sons.

 

These following verses also confirm him being a Braman -

Skanda Purana 5.1.24 Verses 3 to 34

Skanda Purana 6.1.124 Verses 3 to 85

Padma Purana 5.66 Verses 143 to 146

I've seen many UC Hindus spreading the claim that since Valmiki himself belonged to the lower-caste, therefore casteism was non-existent in Ancient India.

So I wanted to know whether it is written in any of the Hindu scriptures about the caste of Valmiki. Some say he was the son of a Brahmin, while others (mostly Hindu apologists) say that Valmiki was a robber (shudra) who repented and became a sage (Brahmin). How true is the latter claim?

> Elsewhere, Pai was accused of a Brahmanical bias in his choice of stories, and for not portraying enough minority traditions. Later issues of ACK and Tinkle addressed these concerns.

> As the southern Asia scholar Frances Pritchett put it: "Whenever an issue involving Sikh characters is drafted, an expert consultant on beards is employed."

Source

Anant Pai was convinced of the need for his stories to be as exact to scholarship as possible when he overheard a disagreement between two highly-placed government officials about a point having to do with Ramayana, to settle which they turned to a copy of Amar Chitra Katha!

Source

During the hearings of the Ayodhya dispute, the counsel for Ram Lalla had told the bench that the faith of the devotees was evidence that the disputed site was the birthplace of the deity. However, the court asked them if they had revenue records and oral evidence to establish possession of the land. “How can we prove after so many centuries that Lord Ram took birth at the place?” the counsel asked.

To this three people claimed that their families descended from the Hindu deity. Lakshyaraj Singh of the erstwhile Mewar royal family claimed that his family descended from Ram’s son Luv. He said Luv established Luvkote, or present day Lahore, and then his descendants moved to Ahad, which is now Mewar, to establish the Sisodia dynasty. Rajasthan Congress leader Satyendra Singh Raghav claimed that the Raghav Rajputs had descended from Luv. BJP MP Divya Kumari had claimed that her family descended from Ram’s other son Kush.

However, it’s not just Kshatriyas (Rajputs are a subset) who have come to link themselves with the Ramayana in order to appropriate some of the glory of the great epic and its even greater hero, Ram, the most revered prince of the mythical solar race, Suryavansha. Valmiki, the non-Brahmin bard who first narrated the Ramayana, is himself claimed as an ancestor by a number of caste groups who call themselves Balmikis and are spread across the north and central regions of the Indian subcontinent. Composed over a period of nearly 800 years (500 BCE- 300CE), Valmiki’s Ramayana is considered one of the first (the Buddhist and Jain Ramayanas belong to the same period) versions of the epic, and is the basic structure around which countless retellings have sprung across languages and regions. Arguably, the most famous retelling is Tulsidas’s Ramcharitmanas which was written in the late 16th century. Significantly different from Valmiki’s, it spawned a new set of Ramayanas that were localised and contextualised to fit the audience.

The Ramayana’s conversion into a divine or holy text began in the second millennium CE. It was looked upon as a fable to emulate, a utopia to fight for and a template to consolidate kingly power, especially when it is incipient. It gave the Indian kingship a template of an ideal divine-king as Ram being an avatar of the god Vishnu was both a temporal king as well as godhead. And, even though the Ram cult took a long time to gain a stronghold in the Indian subcontinent, once it captured the imagination of kings, it becam

Something awkward and weird

What is manual scavenging?

UN India defines manual scavenging as 'The practice of manually cleaning, carrying, disposing or handling in any manner, human excreta from dry latrines and sewers. It often involves using the most basic of tools such as buckets, brooms and baskets.'

In other words, it refers to an occupation in which a person manually cleans and removes raw, untreated human faeces from toilets and sewers, usually using buckets and such tools.

Who does manual scavenging in India and under what conditions?

The manual scavenging tradition is linked closely to the caste system. In the caste-based society, it is mainly the Dalits who work as sanitation workers - as manual scavengers, cleaners of drains, as garbage collectors and sweepers of roads. Virtually all manual scavengers come from Dalit sub castes which are at the bottom of the caste hierarchy. A 2019 study by Participatory Research in Asia found that between 40-60% of 6 million Dalit subcaste households such as the Valmiki, Bhangi, Mehtar, Chooda in northern and western India; Bassfor, Dom, Ghaasi in eastern India, Thotti, Arunthathiyar, Madiga in southern India, etc were engaged in sanitation work under unhygienic conditions, many of whom were manual scavengers. In other words, there is an 'invisible 100% reservation' for SC/STs when it comes to degrading jobs like these, which points towards institutionalised casteism in a supposedly modern, democratic, independent India.

Often, workers and scavengers meet with accidents which are even fatal. In 2019,the Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment recorded no less than 110 deaths while cleaning septic tanks, which was an increase of 61% since 2018. These cases were from 18 states and UTs, while 13 states and ITs did not submit any reports regarding the matter. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that the regions which did report deaths were reporting fully accurate numbers. Which means that the death toll could be even higher yet hidden.

In 2015, the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation found that there had been 1386 deaths of sanitation workers in the last 6 years alone.

These

This will be a very detailed post. But please read it to answer this very common objection.

####### Introduction

The story of Shambuka is very popular. Please read up about it in Uttara Kanda of Ramayana if you are unaware of it. Different thinkers have had different thoughts on it.

For example, there is the great Kannada poet Kuvempu who wrote a play "Sudra Tapasvi". Basically Sri Rama is the upholder of Dharma and the protector of the devout, and the poet changes the story to make Rama chastise the Brahmin instead of Shambuka.

I think I will not be wrong in saying that today, the story of Shambuka is known to Hindus mostly because of the criticism of it. It's usually posted around Sri Rama Navami time. In my experience, it is the followers of Ambedkar that bring it up based on the book "Riddles of Hinduism", which says -

> Some people seem to blame Rama because he… without reason killed Shambuka. But to blame Rama for killing Shambuka is to misunderstand the whole situation. Ram Raj was… based on Chaturvarnya. As a king, Rama was bound to maintain Chaturvarnya. It was his duty therefore to kill Shambuka, the Shudra, who had transgressed his class and wanted to be a Brahmin. This is the reason why Rama killed Shambuka. But this also shows that penal sanction is necessary for the maintenance of Chaturvarnya. Not only penal sanction is necessary, but penalty of death is necessary. That is why Rama did not inflict on Shambuka a lesser punishment.

The idea is that, Rama is only the upholder of Dharma and has no personal hatred to anyone. But the Dharma, Sanatana Dharma, is the one that is at fault. In essence, Hinduism itself is rotten in allowing Shambuka to die.

Thus this is a serious allegation on Hinduism itself, that cannot be neglected. It must be answered.

(Skip to the TLDR of Sravana's story if you are not interested in reading all of it).

####### Could Sudras do Tapas?

This is the most important question. If Sudras did not do Tapas before, then even if the story of Shambuka is an addition, the morals would be the same.

Valmiki Ramayana does describe a Sudra Tapasvi, in the story of Sravan Kumar. Note that this boy is unnamed in Ramayana but I will use the popular name. We know this popular story so I won't explain all of it.

####### Was Sravana Kumara a Tapasvi?

>ऋषेर् हि न्यस्त दण्डस्य वने वन्येन जीवतः | कथम् नु शस्त्रेण वधो मद् विधस्य विधीयते || २-६३-३०

> To a seer like me, of having laid down violence and livin

This is a story from Valmiki's Ramayana, Uttara Kanda, from when Rama had returned after slaying Ravana, and ruled with dharma over his kingdom.

• A Brahmin arrives at Rama's palace with his dead son, not even fourteen years of age
• The Brahmin reproaches Rama that it was due to a fault in Rama's rule that such a terrible fate had come upon a subject in his kingdom.
• Rama arranges a counsel with his ministers, brothers and the sages and informs them of the Brahmin's reproaches
• Narada informs Rama that in Krita Yuga, brahmins alone practised asceticism. In that age none died prematurely and all were wise. In Treta Yuga, brahmins and warriors practised ascetism and Vaishyas and Shudras served them; the Shudras' duty being to serve all three. In Dwapara Yuga, untruth and evil increased, and then the Vaishyas began to practice penance, but it was still forbidden to the Shudras. It is only in the Kali Yuga that the practice of asceticism is permitted to the Shudra caste. During the Dwapara Yuga, it is a great crime for a Shudra to perform such practices. And at this time, there is a wretched Shudra performing a rigid penance in your empire and this is the cause of the death of that Child. The practice of unrighteousness brings about misfortune and it is the duty of a ruler to give immediate punishment and protect his people, failing which he shall surely go to hell.
• Rama makes a tour of inspection of his Kingdom on his flying chariot. Eventually, he happens upon an ascetic practicing an extremely rigorous penance. Rama introduces himself and asks if he is a Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or a Shudra?
• After the ascetic admits to his lowly origins, Rama wastes no time in drawing out his brilliant sword and cutting off the ascetic's head.
• The Shudra slain, the Gods shower flowers and praises upon the hero, Rama. "Thou hast protected the interests of the Gods, O Highly Intelligent Prince, now ask a boon, O Beloved Offspring of Raghu, Destroyer of Thy Foes. By thy grace, this Shudra will not be able to attain Heaven!"
• Rama graciously accepts their praise and asks the Gods to revive the Brahmin's child who had died on account of his negligence.
• The Gods inform him with joy that the child was resuscitated at the instant the head of the Shudra fell.

I've checked this story in several different translations of Valmiki's Ramayana I was able to find, by both Indian authors and foreigners. I am listing them her

I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.

Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.

#Tataka

##Tormentor of Sages

Hindu

Assassin

Lore: Tataka was the first person Rama killed (Assumably), and the first sign that maybe he wasn't the paragon of virtue that he is heralded as. But I will leave my theological analysis until the end.

Once upon a time there was a Yaksha (A sort of spirit person, usually associated in some way with nature) named Suketu, who was a king among the Yaksha. But for some reason he could not have children. So he performed a special ceremony to honor the gods so that they would provide him an heir (Not unlike Rama's father Dasharatha). Brahma, pleased by this action, blessed him with a beautiful daughter named Tataka, and gifted her the strength of 1000 elephants. In time, Tataka is married to Sunda, a Rakshasa. By him she bore two sons, Subahu and Maricha.

One day, a "sage" by the name of Agastya killed Tataka's father and husband with a curse (No reason is given). Angered at this, Tataka and her sons seek revenge. In response, Agastya cursed them as well, turning them into monsters. Out of resentment of this, Tataka and her sons repeatedly disrupted the ceremonies of sages in that area.

So one day, a "great sage" named Vishvamitra brings Rama and his brother to kill Tataka and her children because they are disrupting his rituals. At first, Rama is hesitant, because apparently killing a woman is a sin according to the dharmic code. But the "great sage" says it's okay to kill her because she's "evil". Encouraged by Vishvamitra, Rama proudly accepts the task. Rama twangs his bowstring (Apparently a thunderous sound that shook the entire jungle), which caused Tataka to approach him (According to the Valmiki Ramayana. I understand that there are various versions of the story, but they all seem to go more or less the same way). He declares that he's going to kill her, and she attacks him. After a furious attack, Rama responds by shooting apart both of her arms, then his brother cuts off her ears and nose. Turning invisible with magic, she tries to escape, but Rama fires arrows to cut her off. Then she charges at Rama and he shoots her in the chest, killing her. And everyone, including the Deva, celebrates his "great achievement".

So Rama killed a woman whose whole family had been victimized by a so called sage, and whose only crime was the disruption of the ceremonies of other sages (Which doesn't seem to cause any problems outside of annoying the sages, especially because the ritual Vishvamitra was doing seems to

**inferior ↗️↗️↗️↗️↗️-- correction in Last line.

We Dalits live a very pathetic life. The everyday humiliation from people and mocking of using reservations made me feel very anxious and inferior. We're not treated like human beings and we're getting used to it especially for urban Dalits. Be it your so called friends or celebrities or neighbours or society everybody uses casteist slurs Iike Chamar, bhangi,chuhra is so inhuman and I feel like a residue of society. We live with utmost humiliation with a sad cringeworthy pathetic life.

I SAY OPENLY I DON'T FEEL PROUD TO BE A DALIT. I STRONGLY BELIEVE DALITS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INFERIOR TO UPPER CASTES AND ALWAYS BEEN IN FUTURE. MOST OF THESE DALITS WHO LIVES IN URBAN METRO CITIES AND TOWNS ISN'T THEIR HARDWORK OR STRUGGLE BUT IT'S DUE TO DR BR AMBEDKAR AND THOSE SCUMS EVEN AREN'T GRATEFUL TO BABA SAHEB. THESE PATHETIC SCUMS CHOSE TO BE PROUD HINDUS RATHER TO TRY LIVE LIFE AS A HUMAN BEING WITH EQUALITY.

I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN THIS SHITHOLE COUNTRY WITH PATHETIC LOSERS WHO CAN'T EVEN FIGHT TO GET TREATED AS HUMAN BEINGS. I'LL LEAVE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE FROM THIS COUNTRY AND LIVE IN AN EUROPEAN COUNTRY IF NECESSARY I WOULD BE WORKING IN A LOW WAGE JOB AND CHANGE MY RELIGION AND DISSASOCCIATE FROM MY DALIT IDENTITY AND BREAK MY CONNECTIONS TO OTHER DALITS WHO ARE MY FAMILY MEMBERS EVEN WITH MY PARENTS. IT'S ENOUGH I LIVED A PATHETIC LIFE .

The toxic Casteist culture in schools, Colleges, universities, and workplaces wants me to just leave this shithole people with life of a leech.

Also why we Dalits seeks out support from Sikhs and muslims when they are as much casteist as those hindus. Don't know what is this Sikh appeasement when majority of sikhs are jatts like 66% and they're hell Casteist .

Ravidassia sees different from us dalits. Mazabhis and valmikis are votebank for right wing political parties . Paswan, pasi,jhusads castes feels themselves as KSHATRIYAS and different from other Dalits. Ravidassia Chamars have beef with jatavs.

We(Dalits) aren't United and our leaders seeks votebank from obc (shudra)castes .

Do your worst!

I'm surprised it hasn't decade.

Thesis

In this project proposal, I’d like to accomplish several main things. First, I will provide a general introduction to fill you in on what the hell I’m even posting about in the first place. Second, I intend to present a series of four synopsis which will provide a brief overview of what my essay seeks to achieve. The essay will be divided into four parts, and each synopsis will summarize one part. Third, I will also include a section providing background on myself. Finally, I will wrap things up in a brief conclusion which will directly specify what I’m asking of you, the members of Lindsay’s viewership community.

Thank you for your time and attention. Also, I apologize for writing this whole proposal like a first year undergrad student scrawling off an assignment at 2:00am in the morning. I wrote this thing between 2:00am an 4:00am in the morning exactly. I’m coming off a solid month of harassment, up to and including people mocking the ongoing ethnic cleansing of my entire ethnicity, so I really don’t want to do this. Oh and I’m half-drunk(*), because it took me getting half-drunk to finally go ahead with writing and posting this. So basically, I am that college student. Just, older and sadder.

(*)(ironically, drunk on Writer’s Tears, but not because of Lindsay, I’m just a Dublin based writer so it’s the mandatory go-to).

-

INTRODUCTION

Before I get into the full proposal, let me get a few things out of the way. I do not support canceling Lindsay. I never supported that, and when the harassment was occurring, I went out of my way to defend Lindsay as a creator who makes excellent content. This did not include walking back my opinions on her tweet. I did not then, and I will not now. As a general rule, I simply cannot support targeted harassment campaigns ever, as a matter of general principle. But what’s more, I actually really like Lindsay’s content, and I admire her. I’ve currently got a poetry manuscript out on submission, and it actually includes two little references to her video essays! (One of them you can see here: https://friends-of-mel.com/2021/05/05/rhetoric-and-metaphor/).

If so, you may question why I seek to write this essay. I justify this essay project on the basis of two main points. First is that I received a lot of harassment from people within the literary and literary criticism community as a consequence of visibly being associated with disagr

For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.

I said "hey look, an escaPEA"

No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!

Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂

It really does, I swear!

Because she wanted to see the task manager.

Heard they've been doing some shady business.

They’re on standbi

BamBOO!

https://www.opindia.com/2020/03/delhi-riots-western-ecosystem-anti-india-anti-hindu-propaganda-opinion/

Make no mistake, it can be conclusively claimed that Delhi riots were engineered by some from Aam Aadmi Party who were supported and fueled by the Global and anti-national ecosystems. It did not happen overnight and a good amount of planning, preparation must have taken place for a long time. The tragedy of this instigation and pursuant retaliation through pre-calculated campaign caused immense damage to innocent people and property with Hindus bearing the brunt of it. More importantly, if not effectively addressed now it will lead to another breaking of India in just a few decades.

Let us understand that before the violence occurred on the streets, there was enormous emotional violence that occurred. There is no doubt that some wrong statements were made during the heat of election campaign, but is it possible that there could be such targeted violence and destruction of such a large scale caused by those statements? The violence appears to have been planned and orchestrated by sinister global and local forces. India needs to piece together as to what went wrong, how & why the intelligence community was unable to see it coming and use it for future study and corrective measures. This requires a deep study of the ‘deep state’ which this article attempt to address.

The scale and intensity of the Delhi riots shows that it is high time to push through steps & measures to curb Political Islam like many other countries such as Sri Lanka, France, China and others. India should not be intimidated by the propaganda of Break India forces from abroad and in fact should be countered with full force. In fact, the high decibel western propaganda is to stop india from taking effective action at this moment. This article goes at length into the agenda behind such forces and the detailed steps India needs to take to counter (see last section) the internal and external Break India forces.

Now is the time to take the bull by the horn to address the longstanding issues of Uniform Civil Code, NRC, demographic changes, laws for immediate arrest with mandatory long term sentences when hate speeches are made in public, laws to close down Mosques & other religious places carrying arms or teaching hate, seizing not only rioters property but also those who created a situation for rioting to occur, riot readiness, strengthen Police and internal security, put a co

Pilot on me!!

Christopher Walken

Nothing, he was gladiator.

Dad jokes are supposed to be jokes you can tell a kid and they will understand it and find it funny.

This sub is mostly just NSFW puns now.

If it needs a NSFW tag it's not a dad joke. There should just be a NSFW puns subreddit for that.

Edit* I'm not replying any longer and turning off notifications but to all those that say "no one cares", there sure are a lot of you arguing about it. Maybe I'm wrong but you people don't need to be rude about it. If you really don't care, don't comment.

Or would that be too forward thinking?

This is a story from Valmiki's Ramayana, Uttara Kanda, from when Rama had returned after slaying Ravana, and ruled with dharma over his kingdom.

• A Brahmin arrives at Rama's palace with his dead son, not even fourteen years of age
• The Brahmin reproaches Rama that it was due to a fault in Rama's rule that such a terrible fate had come upon a subject in his kingdom.
• Rama arranges a counsel with his ministers, brothers and the sages and informs them of the Brahmin's reproaches
• Narada informs Rama that in Krita Yuga, brahmins alone practised asceticism. In that age none died prematurely and all were wise. In Treta Yuga, brahmins and warriors practised ascetism and Vaishyas and Shudras served them; the Shudras' duty being to serve all three. In Dwapara Yuga, untruth and evil increased, and then the Vaishyas began to practice penance, but it was still forbidden to the Shudras. It is only in the Kali Yuga that the practice of asceticism is permitted to the Shudra caste. During the Dwapara Yuga, it is a great crime for a Shudra to perform such practices. And at this time, there is a wretched Shudra performing a rigid penance in your empire and this is the cause of the death of that Child. The practice of unrighteousness brings about misfortune and it is the duty of a ruler to give immediate punishment and protect his people, failing which he shall surely go to hell.
• Rama makes a tour of inspection of his Kingdom on his flying chariot. Eventually, he happens upon an ascetic practicing an extremely rigorous penance. Rama introduces himself and asks if he is a Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or a Shudra?
• After the ascetic admits to his lowly origins, Rama wastes no time in drawing out his brilliant sword and cutting off the ascetic's head.
• The Shudra slain, the Gods shower flowers and praises upon the hero, Rama. "Thou hast protected the interests of the Gods, O Highly Intelligent Prince, now ask a boon, O Beloved Offspring of Raghu, Destroyer of Thy Foes. By thy grace, this Shudra will not be able to attain Heaven!"
• Rama graciously accepts their praise and asks the Gods to revive the Brahmin's child who had died on account of his negligence.
• The Gods inform him with joy that the child was resuscitated at the instant the head of the Shudra fell.

I've checked this story in several different translations of Valmiki's Ramayana I was able to find, by both Indian authors and foreigners. I am listing them her

#Tataka

##Tormentor of Sages

Hindu

Assassin

Lore: Tataka was the first person Rama killed (Assumably), and the first sign that maybe he wasn't the paragon of virtue that he is heralded as. But I will leave my theological analysis until the end.

Once upon a time there was a Yaksha (A sort of spirit person, usually associated in some way with nature) named Suketu, who was a king among the Yaksha. But for some reason he could not have children. So he performed a special ceremony to honor the gods so that they would provide him an heir (Not unlike Rama's father Dasharatha). Brahma, pleased by this action, blessed him with a beautiful daughter named Tataka, and gifted her the strength of 1000 elephants. In time, Tataka is married to Sunda, a Rakshasa. By him she bore two sons, Subahu and Maricha.

One day, a "sage" by the name of Agastya killed Tataka's father and husband with a curse (No reason is given). Angered at this, Tataka and her sons seek revenge. In response, Agastya cursed them as well, turning them into monsters. Out of resentment of this, Tataka and her sons repeatedly disrupted the ceremonies of sages in that area.

So one day, a "great sage" named Vishvamitra brings Rama and his brother to kill Tataka and her children because they are disrupting his rituals. At first, Rama is hesitant, because apparently killing a woman is a sin according to the dharmic code. But the "great sage" says it's okay to kill her because she's "evil". Encouraged by Vishvamitra, Rama proudly accepts the task. Rama twangs his bowstring (Apparently a thunderous sound that shook the entire jungle), which caused Tataka to approach him (According to the Valmiki Ramayana. I understand that there are various versions of the story, but they all seem to go more or less the same way). He declares that he's going to kill her, and she attacks him. After a furious attack, Rama responds by shooting apart both of her arms, then his brother cuts off her ears and nose. Turning invisible with magic, she tries to escape, but Rama fires arrows to cut her off. Then she charges at Rama and he shoots her in the chest, killing her. And everyone, including the Deva, celebrates his "great achievement".

So Rama killed a woman whose whole family had been victimized by a so called sage, and whose only crime was the disruption of the ceremonies of other sages (Which doesn't seem to cause any problems outside of annoying the sages, especially because the ritual Vishvamitra was doing seems to