The Quran talks about the iddah period of 3 types of women in this verse, the women who have had their menopause, the girls who have not yet menstruated and pregnant women. How can apologetics somehow deny that Quran doesnt allow Muslims to marry very young girls when it literally allocates a iddah period for them?
Here is the actual verse:
At-Talaq 65:4
وَٱلَّٰٓـِٔى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ ٱلْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ٱرْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَٱلَّٰٓـِٔى لَمْ يَحِضْنَۚ وَأُو۟لَٰتُ ٱلْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّۚ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُۥ مِنْ أَمْرِهِۦ يُسْرًا
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women – if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah – He will make for him of his matter ease.
Muslims claim that Allah gave the rights to women with “Justice”, while the secular Western World made a mistake, and oppressed the women by giving them the so-called “Equal” rights as men have. Let us check how correct this Muslim claim is, and if really Islam has done Justice with the women.
‘Iddah (waiting period) of different kind of women in Islam is as under:
- A widow woman: Waiting period is 4 months and 10 days
- A pregnant woman: Waiting period is up to 9 months (till the birth of the baby)
- A divorced woman: Waiting period is 3 menstrual cycles. Actually, she will not get the chance to get attention and love and emotional help from any men for 6 menstrual cycles. The first 3 menstrual cycles are the process of Divorce, in which her husband does not touch her. And after divorce, again she has to stay in the waiting period of 3 more menstrual cycles. She stays practically almost in solitary confinement like situation for about 6 months.
Muslim Excuse: ‘Iddah is necessary in order to keep the ‘parentage’ of the child safe.
But this Muslim excuse is illogical and not correct, while:
- Becoming free of blood of the first menstrual cycle is enough to know if the woman is pregnant or not, and about the “parentage” of the child.
- That is why Islam itself stipulated the ‘Iddah (waiting peirod) of only first menstrual cycle for the prisoner woman, slave woman, and a free Muslim woman who enters into an Islamic State from and non-Muslim country.
- After this first menstrual cycle, Muslim men are allowed to have sex with them.
- Muhammad himself had sex with Saffiyah the same night, when in the day her father, brother and husband was killed, while she became free from blood of her first mentraul cycle the same day (Reference: Sahih Bukharii).
Long ‘waiting periods’ is not the only Injustice, but Allah/Muhammad put other oppressive and illogical “RESTRICTIONS” too
Long waiting periods are not the only oppression she has to face, but Allah/Muhammad went further, and they also put other unnecessary and illogical restrictions upon her in order to make her life more difficult and miserable.
First Restriction: She has to obligatorily stay only in the house of Husband during ‘Iddah
- She has to stay ONLY in the house of her husband during this whole period.
- What does that have to do with the ‘parentage’ of the child where she lives after the death of
Recently, I got drawn into a discussion with a muslim kid on this sub who started out with defending the prescription of child marriage in islam, and then changed goal posts while claiming he doesn't condone child marriage for some reasons and all that mental gymnastics where they themselves have no idea what they are on about.
When I showed him the exact verse where Quran hints at the legality of having sex with immature girls, he started denying the authentic tafseers that I presented him during our conversation and instead presented some dishonest english translations which do not clearly explain the exact meaning of the word used for those girls who have not started to menstruate yet, because of their young age.
Moving on, so this muslim kid copy-pastes a translation of the iddah verse by mustafa khattab and somebody else which are not clear and hide the fact that the verse is actually about the prescription of iddah period for the categories of women who are (1) desperate of menses (“Yaisna min al-maheedhi”), which means those women who reached the stage of menstruation but do not menstruate, (2) old and have stopped menstruating i.e. reached menopause, (3) those women/girls those who have not menstruated YET (“Wallaee Lam yahidhna”) which clearly means the females talked about in this phrase are pre-pubescent girls who have not yet menstruated and NOT those who have delayed period for some medical reasons ((1) already considers those, see above), and then finally (4) women who are pregnant.
Now as I have shown above, the phrases “Yaisna min al-maheedhi” and "Wallaee Lam yahidhna" point at two different conditions. But dishonest translators and muslims always pretend as if the term "Wallaee Lam yahidhna" points at those females who, while having reached the age of menstruation have not menstruated for some medial reasons; which is not true. That condition has already been covered by the phrase "Yaisna min al-maheedhi”. They always try to mistranalate or not translate the phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidhna" which refers to those women who did not menstruate(in all of past time until the present time), which can include children or girls before puberty or attainment of menarche (first period), as all the classical tafseers of quran would agree.
Here are some tafseers on this verse:
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi
Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in res
... keep reading on reddit ➡In Islam mourning the dead is restricted to a maximum of three days. Except for a wife to a husband which is 4 months and 10 days. This practice, in my opinion, is extremely misogynist and cruel to a woman. Just imagine how restrictive Islam is on these extremely emotional incidents, a woman who lost her kid is permitted to mourn for maximum only 3 days, while she's forced to mourn the death of her husband for more than 4 months.
Conveniently, no such restrictions are placed upon a man if his wife dies. He can get married on the same day and Islam has no problem with that. Often the argument is, "In those days, women waited just to make sure she wasn't pregnant". If that was the case then this practice has no place in 21st century. But this law is still enforced upon woman because the Quran (which is supposed to know pregnancy tests will be easily accessible in 21st century) chose to make it a law for all eternity.
Mirza Masroor Ahmad was asked about this and his answer was exactly what we'd hear from the modern Taliban spokesperson.
https://preview.redd.it/pl87qd01x1m71.png?width=721&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c0995e4736b85ed283ee2bca00f3a2b10f87a90
"...nor does it grant any age-related exemption", there goes the pregnancy argument as women who can't get pregnant aren't exempted from this rule.
But Masroor goes on to explain widow can go to work only if her livelihood depended upon it but should not socialize with colleagues. Also, she can go to doctor (like that's something that needs to be said).
And here's a story... I can't understand why some people find such random nonsense narrations inspiring..
https://preview.redd.it/iya385acy1m71.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=7aaf51024a3db9459186e89d7e72a8a5506b82b4
She was just afraid that Allah will be displeased if she wouldn't apply scent on the fourth day of her brother's death.
Interestingly, in the same article Masroor graciously allow women to travel alone these days because there are better facilities & safety now days.
In Islam, iddah or iddat (Arabic: العدة; period of waiting) is the period a woman must observe after the death of her husband or after a divorce, during which she may not marry another man. One of its main purposes is to remove any doubt as to the paternity of a child born after the divorce or death of the prior husband(from wikipedia).
Now I am gonna explain what iddah is and why it's problematic. Let's looks at the first verse 65:4- >And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.
Who are the women who have not menstruated? Ibn Kathir says: >…The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their 'Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying:
>…(and for those who have no courses…) وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ
>…Ubay bin Ka'b who said, "O Allah's Messenger! When the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah was revealed prescribing the 'Iddah of divorce, some people in Al-Madinah said, 'There are still some women whose 'Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed…
The verse Ubay bin Ka'b is talking about is from sura Al-Baqarah 2:228 and it only talks about iddah for women who menstruate:
>Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day...
So far we know that divorced women have to wait for some period of time(iddah) before they can marry again, and it is clear that verse 65:4 was revealed to explain iddah for women who do not menstruate. And we know for a fact that men married young girls at that time, including prophet Muhammad:
> Narrated `Aisha: that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old (Sahih al-Bukhari 5134)
You can say iddah is just about marriage
... keep reading on reddit ➡I was reading something about marriage completely unrelated to Mohamed when it hit me. Mohamed married Safiya just a few days after he killed her husband.
Normally the horrible act of marrying a woman after killing her husband is an issue on it's own. But Mohamed broke Islamic rules by not waiting the Iddah (4 months and 10 days). She wasn't his slave. He married her. And marriage needs Iddah.
Even if she was a slave. The iddah for a slave whose husband died is 2 months and 5 days. (half of the free woman) According to this fatwa https://www.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=211153 based on this aya https://quran.com/4/25 Slaves get half legal treatment of free women.
I tried looking it up but couldn't find an Islamic answer. Can you help me out her? I'd ask on r/islam but we all know how they deal with embarrassing questions.
Edit: I found out the Iddah is not an Islamic exclusive traditon. It existed before Islam in arabis and it was more harsher. Women had to wait a full year before marriage. So mohamed didn't just break Islamic rules. He broke traditonal rules too. https://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-7299/page-3376#page-3377 حولا كاملا means a full year.
A man in my circles gets a shock diagnosis of cancer. His continued life is uncertain. His wife is devastated. He's her everything, probably the only anchor that keeps her mental health issues at bay. Someone begins talking about how hard her life is going to be when he dies. But as hard as it's going to be, she absolutely "has to do the iddah," the four month, 10 day period a new widow must spend secluded in her home like some sort of animal who's owner died.
Knowing this woman, I suggest that doing the iddah wouldn't be good for her and that she should be exempted. She's generally an outgoing person who gets depressed when alone even without a loss to grieve. But no, "It's the law and Allah knows best for her."
So my father in law passed away recently ( glad he's not in pain anymore) and my mother in law is very old and is in need of constant health care. So the whole family decided she needs to move out and live with one of her children or with us. She pulled something that I didn't know about called Iddah. I just finished reading about and realized wtf. This is the most archaic shit I ever seen. I just can't believe they still follow this.
You know I believe in tranquility and respect other people believes but this one of many things of Islam that bothered me. For those who don't know Iddah is, this what pops up on Google.
"For a woman whose husband has died, the `iddah is four lunar months and ten days after the death of their husbands, whether or not the marriage was consummated."
There is no exception and off course men on YouTube trying to explain how women should act. I'm over here just dumbfounded by this.
The time a woman has to wait before remarrying after her husbands death is, according to the Quran, 4 lunar months and 10 days.
Is this to ensure that if the woman is pregnant, the child would be identified as from the previous father's lineage?
If so, we have modern methods of science to confirm this easily within a few weeks of pregnancy. Are women who choose this path exempt from the 4 months?
(just a question out of curiosity)
Hi So i myself have not been muslim or practised islam ever. My friend, shes half finnish and half albanian, lives in finland. And she wants to become muslim. The reason im typing this is because her reasons for this were ” i dont drink and i wear modest clothes”, like not that she belives in Allah but clothes and alcohol.. i have heard so many opinions on muslims and islam, and i’m kind of worried about her because of my past, im ex jehovas witness( a high controlled group). All i have told her is that look into it and don’t make haste desicions. Do you have any insight would this be a good or bad desicion on her behalf. Love from finland <3
Just a lil rant, thx bye
Mirza Luqman Ahmad is the youngest child of late Mirza Nasir Ahmad, the third Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Community. In the current scenario it is worth mentioning that Mirza Luqman Ahmad is the same person who has been accused of years long sexual abuse by his own daughter, Ms. Nida-ul-Nasser Ahmad.
Mirza Luqman was born on 9 November 1953 and had just turned 28 years old when his mother, Mansoora Begum died on 3 December 1981.
His father, Mirza Nasir Ahmad was 72 years old when the long marriage partnership of 47 years ended with the death of Luqman’s mother. After Mansoora Begum’s death, within two months Mirza Nasir Ahmad started planing a second marriage, and he already knew who the bride is going to be.
Tahira Sadiqa, a girl in her early 20’s, who was studying medicine and was living in a hostel was asked by the Khalifa Mirza Nasir Ahmad to leave her hostel and come back to her home in Rabwah. The obedient follower of the Khalifa instantly left the hostel, arrived Rabwah on 22 February 1982 after receiving an informal marriage proposal and started praying according to the wishes of her Khalifa. The potential wife of Mirza Nasir Ahmad must be an Ahmadi who was known to the Khalifa from her childhood, perhaps through the letters of prayers she might be writing to the Khalifa, as advised by the Jama’at and the Ahmadiyya Caliphs.
ٰIn the biography of Mirza Nasir Ahmad, Tahira Sadiqa wrote:
>شادی کے بعد ایک مرتبہ حضور نے مجھ سے فرمایا: “میرے لئےضروری تھاکہ میں جس سے شادی کرتا اسے بچپن سے جانتا ہوتا۔
>
>Once after our marriage, Huzoor (Mirza Nasir Ahmad) said to me: “It was necessary for me to marry someone whom I knew from her childhood.”
>
>Hazrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad by Syeda Tahira Sadiqa Nasir, page 81.
Three elders of the Jama’at Ahmadiyya were asked to pray for 7 days and do Istekhara (a plea for divine guidance). Mirza Nasir himself prayed for 40 days, from 25 February 1982 to 5 April 1982. On the same day the period of prayers finished, he wrote a formal letter of marriage proposal to his bride to be. (The mental games and manipulation that went into securing this marriage by the Khalifa is a subject for another time.)
The formal proposal of marriage gives us the insight that the 28 years old Mirza Luqman Ahmad had a major role in the selection of his stepmom. Tahira Sadiqa was although nearly 50 years younger than his father but was just a few years young
... keep reading on reddit ➡I'm compiling a list of tough questions from the reasons behind the big bang to organized religion and the like to debate with my fellow Muslims. Any controversial Quranic Surahs/Hadith are also welcome. Any questions that made you leave your deen are more than welcome. I myself am a strident atheist in Pakistan and love learning more and more about the fictional stories of the Quran etc.
I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.
Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.
Just wondering since someone claimed tropical conditions supposedly protected girls from harm. It sounds so illogical and untrue to me.
I do not mean opinions: evidence from research, reports by major reputable organizations etc.
This question goes out to both men and women - did you do anything to commemorate, celebrate or mourn the last day you were your ex’s spouse? (Whether this was the end of the legal divorce or end of an iddah period)
It can be sad, it can be happy but either way it’s a new beginning. While I think a lot of the divorce parties and whatnot are unnecessary, it also seems like a day of significance?
Do your worst!
They were cooked in Greece.
I'm surprised it hasn't decade.
Don't you know a good pun is its own reword?
Two muffins are in an oven, one muffin looks at the other and says "is it just me, or is it hot in here?"
Then the other muffin says "AHH, TALKING MUFFIN!!!"
For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.
I said "hey look, an escaPEA"
No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!
Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂
It really does, I swear!
Alot of great jokes get posted here! However just because you have a joke, doesn't mean it's a dad joke.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT NSFW, THIS IS ABOUT LONG JOKES, BLONDE JOKES, SEXUAL JOKES, KNOCK KNOCK JOKES, POLITICAL JOKES, ETC BEING POSTED IN A DAD JOKE SUB
Try telling these sexual jokes that get posted here, to your kid and see how your spouse likes it.. if that goes well, Try telling one of your friends kid about your sex life being like Coca cola, first it was normal, than light and now zero , and see if the parents are OK with you telling their kid the "dad joke"
I'm not even referencing the NSFW, I'm saying Dad jokes are corny, and sometimes painful, not sexual
So check out r/jokes for all types of jokes
r/unclejokes for dirty jokes
r/3amjokes for real weird and alot of OC
r/cleandadjokes If your really sick of seeing not dad jokes in r/dadjokes
Punchline !
Edit: this is not a post about NSFW , This is about jokes, knock knock jokes, blonde jokes, political jokes etc being posted in a dad joke sub
Edit 2: don't touch the thermostat
Because she wanted to see the task manager.
But that’s comparing apples to oranges
And boy are my arms legs.
Heard they've been doing some shady business.
but then I remembered it was ground this morning.
Edit: Thank you guys for the awards, they're much nicer than the cardboard sleeve I've been using and reassures me that my jokes aren't stale
Edit 2: I have already been made aware that Men In Black 3 has told a version of this joke before. If the joke is not new to you, please enjoy any of the single origin puns in the comments
They’re on standbi
Im having a hard time coming to terms with Iddah. I understand that it is a commandment from Allah (swt) and in cases such as death of the husband it makes sense as it can help the wife to cope with grief.
However in cases of divorce...I just can't see how this is beneficial to the woman? 3 months of not leaving your house at all? It feels like a punishment if im being honest. And I understand it's to avoid the confusion with pregnancy but I just don't see why a woman would be completely banned from leaving her house to do anything. Like I'm sure this could be very damaging to one's mental health. Please educate me.
Muslims claim that Allah gave the rights to women with “Justice”, while the secular Western World made a mistake, and oppressed the women by giving them the so-called “Equal” rights as men have. Let us check how correct this Muslim claim is, and if really Islam has done Justice with the women.
‘Iddah (waiting period) of different kind of women in Islam is as under:
- A widow woman: Waiting period is 4 months and 10 days
- A pregnant woman: Waiting period is up to 9 months (till the birth of the baby)
- A divorced woman: Waiting period is 3 menstrual cycles. Actually, she will not get the chance to get attention and love and emotional help from any men for 6 menstrual cycles. The first 3 menstrual cycles are the process of Divorce, in which her husband does not touch her. And after divorce, again she has to stay in the waiting period of 3 more menstrual cycles. She stays practically almost in solitary confinement like situation for about 6 months.
Muslim Excuse: ‘Iddah is necessary in order to keep the ‘parentage’ of the child safe.
But this Muslim excuse is illogical and not correct, while:
- Becoming free of blood of the first menstrual cycle is enough to know if the woman is pregnant or not, and about the “parentage” of the child.
- That is why Islam itself stipulated the ‘Iddah (waiting peirod) of only first menstrual cycle for the prisoner woman, slave woman, and a free Muslim woman who enters into an Islamic State from and non-Muslim country.
- After this first menstrual cycle, Muslim men are allowed to have sex with them.
- Muhammad himself had sex with Saffiyah the same night, when in the day her father, brother and husband was killed, while she became free from blood of her first mentraul cycle the same day (Reference: Sahih Bukharii).
Long ‘waiting periods’ is not the only Injustice, but Allah/Muhammad put other oppressive and illogical “RESTRICTIONS” too
Long waiting periods are not the only oppression she has to face, but Allah/Muhammad went further, and they also put other unnecessary and illogical restrictions upon her in order to make her life more difficult and miserable.
First Restriction: She has to obligatorily stay only in the house of Husband during ‘Iddah
- She has to stay ONLY in the house of her husband during this whole period.
- What does that have to do with the ‘parentage’ of the child where she lives after the
In case some of you guys don't know what that is, you can read about it here
So a man can get married after his wife dies right away and leave the house and live his life and whatnot, but a woman is expected to stay home 4 months and 10 days? How is this reasonable? What if the wife hated her husband? She shouldn't be expected to spend that much time over an asshole. Apologists love to claim that this religion is a feminist religion while something like this is in the religion.
Qur'an, 65:4:
> وَٱلَّٰٓـِٔى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ ٱلْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ٱرْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَٱلَّٰٓـِٔى لَمْ يَحِضْنَ ۚ وَأُو۟لَٰتُ ٱلْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ ۚ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُۥ مِنْ أَمْرِهِۦ يُسْرًا
>And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.
I've been told that this verse is a scientific miracle as the period of time needed for a women to "evacuate" any potential source of sexual diseases is 3 months.
What do you think about it?
I'm sure most if not all are familiar how according to the quran women wait a period that ranges from 3 cycles/months up or 4 months and 10 days, however there is something odd and kind of doesn't make sense, if the women is pregnant and the divorce/passing occurs the day before she gives birth, her waiting period is till she gives birth and can consummate any future marriage after the postpartum period ends, so if the husband dies the waiting period is 4 months and 10 days, if the lady is pregnant it can be 9 months up or just 1 hour, the waiting period is useless and offers no benefit aside from determining the father of the child back then, why do Muslims still follow it? And why do some scholars still claim that this is great wisdom with great physical and psychological effects when in reality this waiting period is self-destruction, imagine a woman just lost her husband and she has to stay at home for 130 days straight.
Quran 65:4:
>وَٱلَّٰٓـِٔى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ ٱلْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ٱرْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَٱلَّٰٓـِٔى لَمْ يَحِضْنَ ۚ وَأُو۟لَٰتُ ٱلْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ ۚ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُۥ مِنْ أَمْرِهِۦ يُسْرًا
>And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.
If marrying prepubescent girls was prohibited or discouraged in Islam, this clause in the quoted verse would not have appeared.
Similarly, it shatters the common excuse that marrying prepubescent girls is Halal, but without consummating the marriage until she is older. Because if this is the case, it would fall under Quran 33:49 which says that there is no Iddah period when divorcing women untouched by the divorcing husband.
Thus, marrying and having sex with prepubescent girls, children, is sanctioned and Halal in Islam, as practiced by the Prophet himself with Aisha, and countless others of his followers to this very day.
-
Is Iddah only necessary if the marriage has been consummated?
-
If the marriage has not been consummated, is Iddah required then?
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Could the 65:4 verse that says "too young to menstruate" mean that those who have reached the age of puberty but have yet to get their first period? It's certainly possible a female who reached puberty at 12 year of age and then get her first period at 18, so could the verse be talking about those females, rather than those who are pre-pubescent?
