5 Arguments for & against the Byzantine Majority Text (Text-type) of the Greek New Testament

A bit of background: the Byzantine Text-form, or Byzantine Majority Text, simply refers to the congruent text overlapping the majority of Byzantine era manuscripts of the new testament. This is in opposition to the more Protestant backed Alexandrian Text-type, (which uses a handful of supposedly more authentic manuscripts to derive the Greek new testament used as the basis for most modern Protestant bibles); and the Textus Receptus, the text originally compilled by Erasmus (and then by Stephanus, Elzevir, and others) in which a small but increasing number of greek manuscripts of various ages, compositions, and origins were used to derive the premier Greek text for early Protestantism until the late 1800's (this is the text from which the King James Version was derived).

This post will focus on Hort's arguments against the Byzantine Textform (and for the Alexandrian), and Pierpont & Robinson's rebuttals in favor of the Byzantine text.

Hort's Arguments against the Byzantine Textform

  1. Argument from Geneology - Hort believed that all manuscripts of a particular text-type (Byzantine, Alexandrian, Western, Caesarean, etc) necessarily descended from an individual "archetype" or parental ancestor, and that only this archetype was relevant to textual criticism.

  2. Lack of particular "Byzantine" elements in manuscripts before the Fourth Century ad - Hort himself said that this is the crux of his entire argument. He attested that particularly Byzantine elements of the NT (such as John 7:53-8:11, the "Paricope Adulterae") simply weren't found in manuscripts from before the 4th century.

  3. Argument of Conflation - the idea that Byzantine manuscripts were guilty of conflation (the combining of two or more preceding documents), whereas older Alexandrian manuscripts (such as the Codex Sinaiticus & Codex Vaticanus) were not.

  4. Theory of an Authorized Revision - a theory by Hort that there was a systematic revision of the Greek text in or around the fourth century, from which most if not all Byzantine manuscripts were derived.

  5. Argument for the Superiority of the Alexandrian Textform - mainly due to the older age of the Alexandrian manuscripts, Hort asserted that they were therefore superior to the other Text-types.

Pierpont & Robinson's Arguments for the Byzantine Text-type

  1. In his works, Hort doesn't present an actual stemmatic (genealogical) archetype for the Byzantine Textform, nor is one believed to exist by modern scholarship.

  2. There

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📅︎ Aug 25 2021
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Illustration from a 15th Century Byzantine medical text, including a chart of Shades of Urine. Uroscopy was a big part of ancient & medieval medicine, as doctors believed that the color of someone's pee could tell a lot about their health (or if they’ve had propofol ;)
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📅︎ Jan 11 2022
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[WTS] Discounting a lot from previous sales ($100's off for some cases), new additions as well! World, Ancients, Byzantine, Medieval, Hammered, Paper Money, US Type Stuff, and a great 1821 Curacao 1 Reaal.

PROOF

I moved out West from the South this year and it turns out winter stuff is EXPENSIVE! Especially when one wants to partake in more than one winter sport. As a result I’m putting on a bit of a sale, dropping my prices a fair bit on many things I’ve listed previously and I’ve added a bunch of new coins as well.

There’s gold, US type stuff, crown sized silver, medieval, ancients, and a few rare bois in here too. Check it all out below!

Reasonable offers on more than one coin will be considered.

I accept pretty much everything, Venmo is preferred (Zelle, crypto, Cashapp, PPFF).

Shipping is $6 and includes bubble mailer with tracking. Please let me know if you would like the package insured and I will quote that separately. PLEASE let me know if you don’t receive anything within 10 days of me providing tracking, it gets much harder to find lost mail the longer it stays lost and USPS puts a limit on the days in which I can submit a lost mail claim.

If you need more or different pics, or information just ask! Unfortunately some of these are not professionally done.

******GOLD******

INDIA PICS

AM1217 (1789) Mysore, Tipu Sultan, Fanam. NGC MS62 $95 $OLD

RUSSIAN IMPERIAL PICS

1880 Alexander II 5 Roubles, C.П.Б. (St. Petersburg) mint, НФ (Nikolay Follendorf). Jewelers loop added. Ref Y B26. $600 $500

CALIFORNIA FRACTIONAL GOLD PICS

1875 Octagonal Indian Head Half Dollar, BG-934. PCGS UNC-Detail, polished. Fantastic detail. Ref BG-934. $300 $OLD

US CLASSIC COMMEMORATIVES PICS

1903 Jefferson, Louisiana Purchase $1. NGC MS64. $700 $OLD

1916 McKinley Birthplace $1. NGC MS64. $500 $OLD

******ANCIENTS THRU BYZANTINE (Sorted by date)******

PICS

TROAS, Assos, 500-450 BC. AR Hemiobol. $65 $45

PERSIA, Achaemenid, Xerxes I to Xerxes II, 485-420 BC. AR Siglos - Sardes mint. $OLD

GREEK, Chersonesos/Thrace, 400-338 BC. AR hemidrachm. $65 $55

MYSIA, Iolla, 350-300 CE. AE 14mm. In the type of Athens with Athena/Owl combo. $105

MACEDON, Alexander III “the Great”, 325-323 BC. AR Drachm. $100 $OLD

SICILY, Agathokles, 317-289 BC, 4th democracy. Struck 308/7 BC. AE Litra. $70

SELEUKID, Seleu

... keep reading on reddit ➡

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👤︎ u/pprn00dle
📅︎ Nov 22 2021
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Could anyone explain to an outsider why the Orthodox Church bases their translation of the Bible on the majority text (Byzantine text-type) rather than the critical text (Alexandrian text-type)?

All modern Catholic translations and most Protestant translations of the Bible use the critical text based on the much earlier (end of the 2nd century) Alexandrian manuscripts. Within Protestantism pretty much only the KJV and NKJV use the textus receptus based on the later (5th cent) Byzantine manuscripts. Adherence to KJV is primarily a fundamentalist phenomenon which argues against the consensus of biblical scholarship that the later Byzantine manuscripts are more accurate, or even that the textus receptus was inspired. I have little sympathy for this argument, but I saw that the Orthodox Church opts to use the same Byzantine text-type for their own translations, and I figured they would probably have a better, more historical reason for doing so. I looked into it but was unable to find the reason. Could anyone shed some light on this for me? Full disclosure: I am a former evangelical, leaning Anglican, with a preference for patristic theology and admiration for Orthodoxy.

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📅︎ May 01 2016
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Kyiv Rus in Heimskringla Sagas and Byzantine Texts

"Olaf Tryggvason and Vladimir the Great, St. Olaf of Norway and Yaroslav the Wise, Harald Hardrada and Yaroslav’s daughter Elisiv, Yaroslav’s another daughter Anne of Kyiv as regent and Queen of France, Olga of Kyiv and Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII. Art of shipbuilding and a version of the origin of Rus."

Somewhat controversial at times, but fun and wealth of new facts about Vikings.

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📅︎ Nov 06 2021
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#9004 Textual Criticism 4: Why Textus Receptus (Byzantine) Is Older Than Westcott & Hort Text ... youtu.be/zca7B0OR-mI
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👤︎ u/Sinner72
📅︎ Oct 05 2021
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[Byzantine Greek > English] Help help with some religious text from the Church of Greece

I'm looking for an English translation of the following three metered hymns to St. Sophia and her three daughters, taken from the Vespers service for September 17. Thanks so much!

Τῷ τῆς σοφίας φωτὶ καταυγασθεῖσαι, πανεύφημοι μάρτυρες τῶν ἀρετῶν ἡ τριάς, τὰ τῆς Σοφίας βλαστήματα καὶ τῶν παρθένων καὶ ἀθλοφόρων τὸ ἐγκαλλώπισμα· Τριάδος ὑπέρμαχοι ἐν ἡλικίᾳ σμικρῇ, παρανομοῦντα ᾐσχύνατε, καὶ παρρησίᾳ τὴν τούτου πλάνην ἐμυκτηρίσατε. Ὅθεν βασάνοις παρεδόθητε ἀλγειναῖς, ὦ σεμναὶ τρεῖς νεάνιδες, καὶ τὴν κάραν τμηθεῖσαι, θεῖον στέφος ἀνεδήσασθε.

Χριστὸν ἐξ ὅλης ποθήσασαι καρδίας, καὶ τούτου τῷ ἔρωτι τρωθεῖσαι πάνσεμνοι, τῶν γεηρῶν τὴν ἀπόλαυσιν, ὡς ἐπικαίρων καὶ φθειρομένων κατεφρονήσατε, πανένδοξοι Μάρτυρες, Ἀγάπη, Πίστις, Ἐλπίς, καὶ τὰς φρονίμους ζηλώσασαι πέντε παρθένους, χοροῖς τοῖς τούτων συνηριθμήθητε, καὶ σὺν Ἀγγέλοις συγχορεύετε, μαρτυρίου στεφάνοις, κοσμούμεναι καὶ Χριστὸν δυσωπεῖτε τοῦ σωθῆναι τὰς ψυχὰς ἡμῶν.

Ἐνδεδυμέναι Χριστοῦ τὴν πανοπλίαν, καλλίνικοι Μάρτυρες, Πίστις, Ἀγάπη, Ἐλπίς, τῶν ἀρετῶν αἱ φερώνυμοι ἐν τῷ σταδίῳ, ὡς ἄλλου πάσχοντος ἀνεκραύγαζον· Οὐ ξίφος, οὐ μάχαιρα, οὐκ ἐκκοπὴ τῶν μελῶν, οὔτε φλογῶν ἡ ἐπίτασις, ὑμᾶς χωρίσαι, θείας ἀγάπης, ὅλως ἰσχύουσιν· ὅθεν στεφάνους ἐκομίσαντο, τοὺς ἀφθάρτους, ἐκ σοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν, τοῦ παρέχοντος πᾶσι τοῖς πιστοῖς τὸ μέγα ἔλεος.

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👤︎ u/elgreco10
📅︎ Sep 14 2021
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Does the Byzantine-Kievan Rus' treaty of 945 survive today? It's mentioned as being in the Pravda Russkaya but I can't find the body of the text, or more importantly the names witnessing it, has it been lost?

I've tried finding it through Russian history resources with no luck, and although the Eastern Roman Empire was better at record keeping I can't find it that way either. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

This is for a historical novel, if that helps.

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📅︎ Jun 17 2021
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Can anyone decipher this text? Came across it on a floor mosaic in the Der El Kalaa historical site, on a hill overlooking Beirut, Lebanon. Probably an ancient Byzantine church. Most of it has been chopped off long ago by some a**hole. More details ⬇️
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📅︎ Feb 28 2021
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Type “Real emo only consists of” and let Predictive Text fill in the rest

Real emo only consists of the same two types of green green dinosaurs. I’m okay with it but I don’t think you are.

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👤︎ u/Starman926
📅︎ Jan 15 2022
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UNBELIEVABLE: After applying the Byzantine Fault to Paris' latest text I found a new message. But don't trust me, D!Y!O!R! Our Biggest Whale Is With Us.
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📅︎ Apr 13 2021
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Does the Byzantine-Kievan Rus' treaty of 945 survive today? It's mentioned as being in the Pravda Russkaya but I can't find the body of the text, or more importantly the names witnessing it, has it been lost? reddit.com/r/AskHistorian…
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📅︎ Jun 18 2021
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Type "I'm aromantic which means " and let predictive text finish the sentence. My results was so funny
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📅︎ Dec 18 2021
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Are you a more Byzantine type or Seljuk?
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👤︎ u/hbvghvg
📅︎ Apr 17 2021
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Textus Receptus or Byzantine Text?

Hello, I would like to buy a Greek new testament, preferably the original.

Should I buy the Textus Receptus or the Byzantine Text?

Also, which bible translation do greek orthodox use?

Also:

The P52 a fragment from a papyrus codex shows following verse at John 18:33

"πάλιν εις το πραιτωριον" this is the verse, the Nestle-Aland uses.

But if I look at the Textus Receptus and the authorized 1904 text it shows:

"εἰς τὸ πραιτώριον πάλιν"

Do you have an explanation why they use it instead of the original showed in P52? I've seen people taking this as an argument against the TR and the patriarch text.

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👤︎ u/OkAd7036
📅︎ Nov 26 2020
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[Hiring] Need an artist to draw me and my friends in the byzantine/slavic style below and add an old looking text font below that to give it the feel of a medieval document reddit.com/gallery/kgg076
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👤︎ u/GenieKid22
📅︎ Dec 19 2020
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I can put plain text logo in circle using Type on path tool. But how do I properly put my custom logo in a circular shape without distortion? I know about Warp tools but they they distort it. Any help?
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📅︎ Jan 13 2022
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Let’s settle this. When smiling in a text, do you type :) or (: ?
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👤︎ u/RaidriarXD
📅︎ Dec 30 2021
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Type “Gay people are” and let predictive text finish your sentence.

Mine is “Gay people are gay”. 😂

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📅︎ Nov 02 2021
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For Those Who Ordered 2021 WSS Legacy Signet Rings, No Need to Worry! I Hadn't Heard Anything After I Ordered Mine, Until I Got a Text From FedEx the Other Day. My Ring Arrived Today! I Admit I Feared a D3p10r@b13$ Type Situation, But I'd Bet My Ring You Get Yours Soon. One Ring to END THE FED!!!

PS It looks great, FWIW. Highest premium i've ever paid (even for brand-new jewelry), but worth it to wear a piece of WSB/WSS history...

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👤︎ u/Alcophile
📅︎ Jan 05 2022
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[TOMT] [Website] [2012ish] incredible website where anything you type into search bar, no matter how weird, unique or crazy has already been written in text on this website for years.
 I remember back in the day I was using Stumbleupon (boy do I miss Stumbleupon) and was sent a website that had millions or maybe billions of pages of text full of completely random letters. It had a search box where you could type anything ( not sure what character limit was) and it would take you to the exact page where it had already been written. like you could think of a made up word, your name or a nonsensical sentence and it would show you the page number where it has existed for years. It was a trip to play around with. 

Anything I've tried to Google leads me nowhere. please help me find this website. I know other people on here would find it cool as well. Thanks!
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👤︎ u/RETR0J0J0
📅︎ Dec 22 2021
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LPT: Whenever you type out something that requires careful thought onto a web page or form, do a quick 'Select All'+'Copy'. Don't assume the form will submit it or keep your text if you missed a captcha or something and it refreshes the page.

I cannot tell you how many times I've tried to send a carefully worded LinkedIn message or opinion on whatever survey or box on an online college test and it took 10 minutes of focus and refinement to get it all out, ONLY for the submission to fail because I didn't see an earlier required field, and then when the page refreshes I lose all of my work. It doesn't take long to just highlight everything and 'ctrl+c' before hitting 'Submit', and you can clear your clipboard of any sensitive information afterwards. It has saved me heartache more than once, and making sure that the information in existing fields is suspended/saved during a captcha or 'null value' refresh doesn't seem to be a top priority for web devs (and perhaps rightly so).

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👤︎ u/tyfghtr
📅︎ Dec 08 2021
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I read that the Mongols were mass producing texts in the 13th century using a moveable block type printing method. Why was Gutenberg's press so revolutionary in the 15th century if similar technology already existed in the interconnected Eastern hemisphere?

Title basically says it all, came across this reading "Genghis Kahn" and it made me scratch my head. I was always taught Gutenberg took Europe from labor intensive manual transcription to modular type. But it appears similar technologies already existed at least among the huge and widely influential Mongol Empire. Was there printing in Europe before Gutenberg? If so what was it like? If not... Why not?

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📅︎ Dec 09 2021
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$3 entry fee. (11,600) videos and it’s 300+ videos a day in here. No Snitching 🤫. Request Who ever you’d like to see STOP PAYING FOR ONLYFANS AND PPV CONTENT 1x time fee of 3$ for whatever you want(For access to telegram group chat text me ) Check previous posts different types of videos we post v.redd.it/j0zl0jmbgxa81
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📅︎ Jan 10 2022
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If You Like Ancient Greek Texts, Thank the Byzantines for Preserving Them - Tales of Times Forgotten talesoftimesforgotten.com…
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📅︎ Apr 21 2020
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Does anyone know how to create text with this type of effect? reddit.com/gallery/qqgdzg
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📅︎ Nov 09 2021
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[Spoiler: 6.0] Can we pleeease get this type of text box as a global theme?
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📅︎ Dec 20 2021
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My keyboard types double different letters, for example, if I press R is the output text is er and in I type H the output is uh and if I type U output is still uh..what could be the problem, does anyone else know how to fix this, it's so frustrating v.redd.it/opdogkixytb81
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📅︎ Jan 15 2022
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Has anyone made a template where you can put your face instead of Camille's and type in your desired text?

I need that

https://preview.redd.it/o2hwkf5lwna81.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=0361493e24ec3ab076efd0ae661e7f2f69cce17c

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📅︎ Jan 09 2022
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Can anyone tell me more about this 'Phrygian helmet with mask', who used it and when it was used? I was wondering if these types of helmets would be appropriate for a Byzantine look.
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📅︎ Oct 16 2020
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$3 entry fee. (11,600) videos and it’s 300+ videos a day in here. No Snitching 🤫. Request Who ever you’d like to see STOP PAYING FOR ONLYFANS AND PPV CONTENT 1x time fee of 3$ for whatever you want(For access to telegram group chat text me ) Check previous posts different types of videos we post v.redd.it/6ljb4q4mhxa81
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📅︎ Jan 10 2022
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Honestly Jason, I feel sorry for you having to receive cringy Mills and Boon type text messages from your boss 😂 wtf is with her language? Who TEXTS like this? I feel fantastic, cathartic, real and honest and factual 🤣🤮Forever living in a Hallmark movie.
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📅︎ Nov 12 2021
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What type of runes are used for the runestone texts?

I've tried finding some information about it, but no luck so far. Is it the Anglo-Saxon or a Furthark? Any help would be appreciated :-)

Solved! :-)

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📅︎ Jan 02 2022
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Nvidia releases web app for GauGAN2, which generates landscape images via any combination of text description, inpainting, sketch, object type segmentation, and style. Here is example output for text description "a winter mountain landscape near sunset". Links in a comment.
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👤︎ u/Wiskkey
📅︎ Nov 23 2021
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DAXComparison Operations Do Not Support Comparing Values Of Type Integer With Type Text

Hello,

I’m trying to run the below query to group customers by loyalty rating and I keep getting the above error.

Customer Loyalty = IF(recipient_export_1018_19739[p_number_of_orders] > 4, "VIP Customer", IF(recipient_export_1018_19739[p_number_of_orders] = 4, "Loyal Customer", IF(recipient_export_1018_19739[p_number_of_orders] < 4 & recipient_export_1018_19739[p_number_of_orders] > 1, "Casual Customer", IF(recipient_export_1018_19739[p_number_of_orders] = 1, "One Time Customer", "Other"))))

Any help is much appreciated

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📅︎ Jan 09 2022
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Investigative or uncovering type book on the Catholic church. Other main stream religions will suffice. More below in text

I've done all of John krakauers books. Is there something in similar writing that specifically rips apart the Catholic church? I'd be interested in other main stream religious ones as well. If possible I'd like it to cover a larger portion of history than just a time stamp. But if that's not around time stamps or specific incidents will suffice.

No cults/new religious movements. I research them a lot and have a list on those. I'm more interested in the reigning champs here.

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👤︎ u/HxH101kite
📅︎ Jan 04 2022
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$3 entry fee. (11,600) videos and it’s 300+ videos a day in here. No Snitching 🤫. Request Who ever you’d like to see STOP PAYING FOR ONLYFANS AND PPV CONTENT 1x time fee of 3$ for whatever you want(For access to telegram group chat text me ) Check previous posts different types of videos we post v.redd.it/v21wz19tpr981
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📅︎ Jan 05 2022
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Lost Byzantine books and texts

How much of Byzantine books and learning was lost due to the sack of Constantinople in 1204 and the conquest of the city by the Turks? I read somewhere that most major works had survived and I was curious how that happened.

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📅︎ May 25 2020
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What are the best techniques for the fastest type of text-typing on smart phones?

I've noticed some people are blazingly fast at text-typing and so I wanted to ask are there any particular type of "texting style" that produces the fast speed?

Do you use "auto-suggest" and does this make texting faster?

Do you use "swipe" texting where you run your finger across the keyboards and the word pops up?

Do you use two thumbs?

Do you use auto-complete?

So if you've any tips or techniques that can help with improving text-typing speed please then I'd appreciate your suggestions

Edit: Does the type of smart phone you've got makes a difference to the texting speed so would a high end flagship phone be able to text quicker than an entry level Samsung A12 for instance which costs £140/$175

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📅︎ Jan 09 2022
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Fun game: type "I’m (whatever your sexual orientation is) which means I’m attracted to” and let predictive text finish your sentence

Example: I’m lesbian which means I’m attracted to it all lol

👍︎ 12
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📅︎ Dec 03 2021
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$3 entry fee. (11,600) videos and it’s 300+ videos a day in here. No Snitching 🤫. Request Who ever you’d like to see STOP PAYING FOR ONLYFANS AND PPV CONTENT 1x time fee of 3$ for whatever you want(For access to telegram group chat text me ) Check previous posts different types of videos we post v.redd.it/noif7638ly381
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📅︎ Dec 06 2021
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How do I type a period to end a sentence when using speech-to-text on my phone using Spanish?

I've tried many, many time to add punctuation marks. It never adds them.

👍︎ 4
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📅︎ Jan 12 2022
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$3 entry fee. (11,600) videos and it’s 300+ videos a day in here. No Snitching 🤫. Request Who ever you’d like to see STOP PAYING FOR ONLYFANS AND PPV CONTENT 1x time fee of 3$ for whatever you want(For access to telegram group chat text me ) Check previous posts different types of videos we post v.redd.it/m0g75adtb0981
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📅︎ Jan 01 2022
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Kyiv Rus in Heimskringla Sagas and Byzantine Texts

New perspective on the Vikings adventures in Rus. The blurb goes as follows:

"Olaf Tryggvason and Vladimir the Great, St. Olaf of Norway and Yaroslav the Wise, Harald Hardrada and Yaroslav’s daughter Elisiv, Yaroslav’s another daughter Anne of Kyiv as regent and Queen of France, Olga of Kyiv and Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII. Art of shipbuilding and a version of the origin of Rus."

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📅︎ Nov 06 2021
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Which type is the most cringe in text and uses the most emojis
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👤︎ u/ComaCircle
📅︎ Jan 01 2022
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