Italian City States Puns

It was weird that Italian states like Genoa and Venice did not attempt to find new trade routes. They had a lot of capitals to spare thanks to their banking and trade; they had a lot of reasons to discover new routes (as the Ottoman was their main enemy); they had the naval expertise to do so (seeing that many of the explorers like Christopher Columbus and Amerigo Vespucci were Italian) and their relations with Christian states were not bad to the point of being refused exit from the Mediterranean sea (unlike the Ottoman who would be stopped by Christian force if they attempted to do so).

So why did Venice, Milan, or Genoa never attempt to colonize the New World ?

Hi all,

I have been spending a lot of time reading/learning about the middle ages ( mainly from a Roman/Byzantine perspective), but one thing i am uncertain about and have not been able to get a good answer on was how the italian city states (venice, genoa etc...) generated so much wealth AT THE STATE level.

with the Roman's, while trade generated a nice little income from duties, it was nowhere near the level of state income generated from land tax and head tax - hence while revenue was lost by providing trade concessions to the italians in exchange for defense (thye had big navies) - it did not economically hurt the empire as increased trade produced economic growth via more profitable markets for goods - i have ab economics/finance background so this makes sense to me as it is sort of like our current model of the benefits of free trade

what i am not understanding, is how the italian states turned the wealth created by their merchants into state revenue - if they had similar duties on trade, would it not end up in a nice income (a la Constantinople) but still nothing compared to organized land taxes? My assumption is they found another way to get cash into state coffers, but i have yet been able to find anything.

Thanks!

Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely Coinci Dental.

Lets say the time period after the fall of the Roman empire around 500 to the end of the middle ages 1500. Or even up to 1600 if you like.

What were the numbers? How horrific was it? Who were they selling to? Did anyone try to stop it?

Edit: By monarchy I mean real absolute despotic monarchies or at leasyt partially undemocratic constitutional monarchies like Liechtenstein, the UK is a democracy.

In the otl, he really disliked the pope's political authority and waged war on the north Italian cities while appointing an antipope to excommunicate the pope. He later joined the third crusade and drowned.

If RPing in a medieval fantasy version of an Italian city-state is your definition of fun, well then I’m your gal. I’d love to have someone to world-build and explore the city of Aurinze, or rather the city of gold.

The city of Aurinze can be best described as an amalgamation of circa 15-14th century Rome, Venice, and Florence. It has something akin to the Holy See, an intricate canal system, as well as a burgeoning merchant class.

War, plague, and pestilence have raged outside of the city for the last century as the surrounding fiefdoms vie for power. And for years Aurinze has remained a sanctuary for those fleeing from war and famine. But this city of gold is not so pristine as some might think.

Deep below the holy streets of Aurinze lies a labyrinth of uncharted tunnels and catacombs built by the ancient founders of the city. Some believe that the ancient people that once populated the city built the tunnels for a reason, and that this ancient race fled the city for the very same reason. Be it for the purpose of escaping preternatural forces or the plague, the ancient catacombs remain an uncanny reminder of the city’s dark past.

And that’s not even mentioning the fantastical creatures that lurk just past the city’s limits. While high stone walls appear to protect Aurinze’s populace from the devils that prowl the paths that lead to the city, it is something else entirely that protects the city from the ghastly specters that threaten to invade it.

As for the rest, we can figure it out once we get to plotting and world-building!

While I intend to play multiple characters regardless, I do have several to choose from in regards to who I will main throughout the RP.

First is Lelio della Rovere. He is a young man in his early 20s about to be married off to some aristocrat at his father’s request. This really isn’t the life he had envisioned for himself, seeing as he was originally born the illegitimate son of a magistrate. But as time passed and his noble father’s circumstances changed, Lelio was brought into the della Rovere household as a trueborn son. This was not a voluntary action, though, as it turns out Lelio’s three older half brothers had died and Lelio was his father’s last resort in finding a suitable candidate to take on his title as Carnefice, or the Pontiff’s executioner.

It’s no one’s dream job, and it comes with the price of being wholly devoted to God and the Holy See, neither of which Lelio can claim to be, but he supposes it’

I’m interested in learning more about the Italian city-states, more specifically the history of their currency. Any broad histories on all the states that talk about coins, histories of individual city-states and their currency, or books about one currency are fine. I’m also open to shows/movies/documentaries that accurately portray this topic.

In Civ 6, I was surprised at how few Italian city states there were, considering how important Italian city-states were for the Renaissance.

Florence Cultural City-state? (Suzerainty: More Great Artist/Writer points)

Venice Trade City-state? (Suzerainty: Naval units except Carriers cost less Gold to purchase)

Genoa Militaristic City-state? (Suzerainty: 30% Production boost on Naval units except Carriers)

Am I the only one who thinks that the Italian city-states of the Renaissance are not well represented in Civ 6 despite their importance in history? (There is also no Italian civilization--Romans are different--so that's not the reason why there are few Italian city-states?)

Eventhough ancient greece was divided into many many city states with different laws and customs they recognised that they share a common culture and somewhat have a concept of pan-hellenism

Did medieval italian city states have their own concept of Pan-Italicism? Did they acknowledge that they have similarities? just like the ancient greeks acknowledging that the similarities of the greek city states?

What title would the rulers of North Italian city states (communes) have held in the late 12th and/or early 13th centuries? I'm specifically thinking of cities like Bergamo, Treviglio, Padua, etc.

https://preview.redd.it/id00jwwxpp251.jpg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a9c8769e89bd8a27a927141b242cadc273f3e61

So... I'm Italian and there is something that always annoys me about this wonderful game... the "Italians" civilization. Now, it kind of annoys me because Italian Regions have their respective histories and traditions... and we had so much epic rivalries between city states. It is obvious that you cannot represent every single Italian City State as a different civ (and I think that the developers did a good job creating the Italians)... however I was wondering about a different scenario in which they would actually represent the strongest city states as their own civs, such as Venice, Genoa, Milan, Pisa, The Papal State, Florence, Naples ecc.

The real deal about speculating a different civ for each different city states comes from the fact that there was a sense of culture identity; Poets and Dukes were very conscious of the fact that all the Italians regions had a lot of common traits and similar traditions; however, there was no national identity, meaning that every city state was constantly raging against the others. It was a situation similar to the Classical Greece: you had a lot of different states, united by some common traits and traditions, but politically separated from each other. Each city state would follow its own ambitions, disregarding the others. There were only a few times in which the Italian City States actually made some alliances to fight against other city states or foreign invaders.

Here you can see a vast majority of the best known Italian City States.

And I would say that this speculation would be really interesting, indeed. Because, you could really take the peculiar traits of every city state and take them to the extremes! For example, the Papal State would have Broken AF Monks and Strong Halbs or Venice would have very strong Galleons and very strong infantry (to reflect their reliance onto mercenaries) or, again, Milan would have incredibly strong paladins and siege weapons... you would have crazy strong and specialized civilations to play with.

What do you think about this?

By the time of the English Civil War and later the American Revolution, becoming a republic involved a good amount of discussion about the theoretical benefits of various forms of government and references to Roman history and the like. I was curious if there was similar discussion when Florence or Venice became republics.

Whilst playing Italy I got to thinking and I tried to put myself in the shoes of the average TNO Italian. Apart from the crippling depression that caused, I tried imagining the look of some of the cities that are recognisable for me. Starting off with Bologna and Modena, them being the closest to me, they would be hellish in summer. Emilia-Romagna used to be swamp land, much more so in the ‘60s, and it’s extremely humid by itself. Just imagine never having any relief from the heat, being always sticky and constantly attacked by mosquitos, which are all too common here. There would probably be a giant move towards the seaside, although not aimed at the Adriatic coast, since it doesn’t exist anymore. The famous seaside establishments of Riccione or Rimini would probably be a depressing sight, empty and devoid of any life in what should be their liveliest time of the year. No more “Vacanze a Riccione”. I’m not sure if Trieste would still have the Bora (the name of the famous wind current.) but just being devoid of the sea would make it one of the saddest sights in Italy. Piazza Unità would face towards an endless desert, the same desert that sits in place of Trieste’s characteristically agitated sea. And Venice, poor Venice. Apart from, again, the scorching heat, it would sit on an empty lagoon. An other thing is probably the fish trade, Ferrara is known for the best mussels in the Mediterranean (funny, I know.). It probably doesn’t mean much to you all, but thinking of these cities that I hold dear saddens me deeply. Still, I thank the writers for making an experience that’s immersive and pulls on certain people’s heartstrings.