I like the writing a lot and am super excited to try something else by Atwood, but I'm just not really enticed by the idea of the dystopia and, more to the point, am incredibly nagged by what seems like faulty internal logic of the world-building. Because of her function, we can deduce that the narrator is likely under 40 right. Meanwhile, she keeps alluding to the "before times" and referencing her college days in a sort of wistful tone that bemoans the loss of a time when women went to college and learned about economics and history etc. while writing feminist critiques of date rape etc. So...These "before times" were really, what, like 15 years ago? And in that time society has gone from what for arguments sake we can call a relatively speaking "normal" and "liberated" standard, democratic society we'd identify with the so-called West in, say the mid-to-late twentieth century to (having been refracted through the prism of a fundamentalist sectarian religious conflict???) this mega-conservative dystopian, religious based order. Meanwhile the rules and customs of this new world seems remarkably well-ossified given whatever time period we're working with. Obviously, the past few years have shown us that we can undergo remarkable ideological shifts in a short span of time, especially given some kind of disaster, which indeed might be sort of the point here. That being said, it's still nagging me a lot--over 70 pages in, WAY too much exposition on the quotidian details of the new world and WAY too little explanation of how we got here (and, to be honest, too little plot development almost a third of the way through a not very long novel). Which ordinarily would be fine! But we get so many glimpses back at the "before time" which seem to want to cast this horrible new reality into relief but which, instead, just keep reminding me of this temporality thing. Am I completely wrong here...am I like 20 pages from all of this being very well explained? Don't want to hate on what seems to be a very beloved novel, I'm just curious if anyone else reacted in this way.
You know, I thought Donald Trump being elected was bad. I thought once we get him out life will return to normal, or at least somewhat normal. But lately I've been feeling this existential dread daily. If our elected officials don't stand up to the GOP, than what's the point. What can we actually accomplish. Roe vs Wade, voter suppression. If we continue down this path what will be left of our democracy? And what can we actually do?? The GOP just lies, cheats and steals. We'll never have a fair election at this point and I feel helpless. What countries would be best to seek asylum in? Have you guys thought of moving? Because I'm very scared for our future. No way will I be a Handmaid because my tubes are tied, looks like colony living for me.
Serina, Fred and Aunt Lydia are always referring to June and other handmaids as "girls". It's such a pet peeve of mine when fully grown woman are talked about as "girls". It's happens to Elizabeth Moss character in madmen too.
It's a subtle and small way to take more from them. They're not women, they are girls. Girls who need to be told what to do and when to do it. They're not capable themselves. They are infantilized.
This might be a dumb question/discussion because I’m probably going too deep, but I’ve always wondered what the black Handmaids did with their hair? I’m black and I need a lot of products, combs, and brushes to do my hair. I also have to sleep in a bonnet to protect my hair at night. So I’m wondering how they kept up their hair.
Let's talk about it.
First of all, narratively speaking, yes, this could be interesting. It depends how it's executed. I'm afraid if the show did go this route, it could get boring easily. Like, Serena's a Handmaid, she learns the errors of her ways, and then that's as far as I can see you going with it? Personally, I don't really like the idea in a narrative sense, but to each their own. Seeing Serena go through that is a bit revenge porn-y for me.
Morally speaking, I'm against it. I don't like this idea that someone could ever deserve to become a Handmaid. Yes, even people who helped create the system. I just am personally against the idea of "wanting someone to get systematically raped is bad, unless it's someone I don't like". Yes, that is simplifying the issue, but my point is this show is about how awful it is to be a Handmaid. It would be a failure on the show's part to have one of its conclusions be "expect for this person deserves it. All the other Handmaids, they got it wrong on who deserved to be a Handmaid. It is actually a good system, just for other people." I personally am against this archaic "eye for an eye" mentality. Handmaids should not be used or desired ever. Period.
Especially since this type of punishment targets mainly only AFAB people. Fred gets to die only after one night and (at least from what I've seen) the consensus was generally that was a well-deserved and emotionally fulfilling ending for him. But Serena, on the other hand, deserves to be ritually raped and dehumanized for the rest of her life (or at least until she can no longer have children)? From what I've seen, no one wants to see Serena be chased down and ripped to shreds. They do want to see her raped. That's a double standard.
And I'll probably have to address here the responses of "It's just a show, Serena's a fictional character, get over it". I don't think that's a good argument considering the political messaging of the show and how Serena is a reflection of a lot of women who exist today. For example, I don't see "it's just a show, it's not real" when there are threads comparing the show to actual current events. This show is a response to a lot of current real things happening in the world, and frankly I think it's a lazy deflection to say that.
Anyways, those are my opinions. What do you guys think?
How many more seasons should The Handmaid's Tale go before you guys think it'll get too drawn out and stale?
Personally I wish they ended at Season 1 or at least did an anthology if they kept going. As it is currently, I think it should end within the next two seasons to wrap up story lines. Or if they do Testaments, maybe one or two more seasons plus Testaments (but Testaments shouldn't be longer than a season or 2).
Anyone else totally over the whole 'I'm getting handmaid's tale' vibes? If any of the fundies post up a picture of themselves in a red or teal (or green 🙄) below the knee dress, cue the posts about the handmaid's tale.
Red and teal and pretty popular clothing colours.
Almost as tiresome as the Lord Daniel posts
Sorry if this is too off-topic or otherwise against the rules. It’s on topic to me because the entire time I watched Handmaid’s Tale I was blown away by how spot on they were with the religious delusion/abuse. I’m sure that for many in this sub it was difficult to watch, it definitely was for me.
I think besides all the obvious atrocious scenes one of the parts that bothered me the most was that the Waterfords had so many supporters in Canada. I should have realized that of course there are a shit load of religious freaks elsewhere in support of Gilead.
Also, June’s anger was relatable to me in my own life. I think many of her decisions that are often criticized by fans were totally justified.
... until season 5 comes out in 2022 I guess. Still, I don't think I would rewatch the show again. I know it's not perfect but after reading the book and then enjoying binging the show recently, the seasons gave me a lot to think about.
I really enjoyed watching the show and happily let it whisk me along it's dystopian path. I don't know if any of you felt the same, but afterwards, it was one of the first shows I was quite confident I couldn't rewatch from the beginning again! Possibly due to the heavy nature of many of the themes and setting of the Gileadean world. Did any of you feel similarly?
The episode from this show sums up my thoughts quite nicely - The Handmaid's Tale - The best show I won't watch again!
No real details to add beyond that but there's a whole lot of crap being raised tbm that this show has brought up for me.. I really hate so much more about the brainwashing at church than I realised, after seeing this show..
https://archiveofourown.org/works/35631193
So, it's as the title says. I was supposed to do like one chapter in the style of Atwood but I was encouraged to extend it.
It's called Of Wives & Handmaids. The plot is that my Handmaid (Ofjohn | Amara McKnight) ends up serving the Husband of her university best friend (and maybe sort of crush) Evelyn Smith. She played the Serena Joy role in creating Gilead and threw away their friendship for it because she was desperate to have kids. But, like Serena, she sees how the system has bitten her in the ass so reaches out to her old best friend for comfort.
I wanted to know what people thought of it. If people liked it enough, I could extend it! Perhaps they can throw some ideas my way for how to continue it or have a general discussion.
EDIT: I've decided to update this story regularly, and have gone back to edit the first 3 chapters. I hope you stick with it!
Disclaimer: I could only bring myself to watch one and a half episodes because I was so turned-off by the ridiculous dialogue and plot. However, I have watched multiple clips from the show, and enough people have gushed about it to where I understand it... and it is so fucking stupid that I don't get why anyone would ever take it seriously.
So like... a cult took over and made America into a freaky religious cult? Fertile women are made sex slaves to bear children to infertile couples? The whole of the ENTIRE country just accepted this new, bizarre way of life, and new way of speaking? How... how does anyone take this show seriously?
I am so sorry, but I laughed out loud when that one girl was telling her story about her sexual assault and the teacher/whatever was like, "And whose fault is this?" And everyone in the group was made to point at the girl and say "Her fault! Her fault!" I just went... WHAT? Who in the hell wrote this shit? I get what the point was. I understood what they were going for with the scene. I got it. It was just... such a stupid, hit-you-over-the-head moment. Like, "See?! It's like when a woman is raped today, sometimes the victim gets blamed and we say it's her fault!" No, no, yeah I get it... it's just such a stupid scene...
I guess I find it dumb because it is just so far out there and away from reality, that I can't take it seriously. It requires me to ignore so much logic and squash down so many questions that I can't just watch it.
I won't even begin to touch the subject of the devout watchers who then 'warn' us that 'this could actually happen'. Bitch. Sit down and do a crossword puzzle and lay off the fear-mongering tv, okay?
EDIT: Ah so I looked it up and discovered it was a part of the country and the main show's running goal to get the main character to Canada, which is funny because the author is from Canada.
Also I love all these angry fans telling me, who has so many books I had to take the ones that wouldn't fit on my bookshelf and shove them under my bed and in the closet, that I must have never read a single book because I didn't like a TV show.
Just because someone didn't enjoy a TV SHOW about a far-fetched Dystopian nightmare with shitty dialogue that people pretend could totalllyyyy happen one day, doesn't mean they never read books. No one is running around like a chicken with their head cut off that the plot of Hunger Games is in our near future. Get over yourselves, JFC.
trans masc person exists
NOOOOOO!!! You're destroying your womanhood by removing your sacred womb. You are disfiguring your femininity by cutting off your beautiful breasts. Your soft, supple skin ruined by manly stubble. Please don't cut yourself off from your holy sisterhood!
I think one of the flaws in the show is showing that all the Handmaids are "good people" (or at the very least, not evil before the rise of Gilead).
Why haven't we seen Handmaids who've actually done horrible things and are horrible people? Like murderers, abusers, violent criminals, etc. I think it would be interesting to tackle the idea of "this person is absolutely deplorable, morally bankrupt, and a disgusting human being even before Gilead rose to power" and have to deal with the fact that even if all those things are true, Handmaids should never be an acceptable option.
The lack of truly awful people kinda clears up that gray area where people never have to grapple with the fact that no one, not just women who get remarried or lesbians or women who've had an abortion but are otherwise generally good people, deserves to be a Handmaid.
This is inspired by the fact that there's the idea in this forum that Serena should be a Handmaid (while I understand the argument that it's "narratively interesting", I'm sure a good percentage of that sentiment actually believe if you're a bad enough person (like Serena) really deserve it. For Karma or something).
EDIT: I should probably expand my definition of "Bad People". Beyond violent criminals and such, why are there no Handmaids that are just genuinely shitty, terrible, and selfish people who hurt others for personal gain and who were just like this since before Gilead and it isn't caused by trauma? It seems those traits are purely restricted to Aunts and Wives, where everybody from all walks of life can turn out to be horrible? I think as the show goes, it can fall into the trap of "good people doesn't deserve to be Handmaids" rather than "no one deserves to be a Handmaid no matter what" without this.
I hear everyone say it’s good and there’s even a show for it but i wanted to read the book first..
So I was running around firelink shrine when I accidentally killed the firelink shrine handmaid, will she respawn and if she doesn't how fucked am I. (I'm about to fight Lothric and lorian so I really don't want to restart)
Random question, but if they kept the handmaids because they were sinners who could bear children, but Gilead just kills sinners (like Nick’s wife, who could have possibly had children), then is the goal to not have handmaids one day?
I’m currently watching it and WOW. The appearance thing is uncanny enough, but there’s so much more.
Her and Serena are/were both outspoken advocates for women to be domestic, religious, traditional wives. Both have some fame, influence, and people who agree with their message. I feel like she would love having the power to psychologically punish women who she views as morally “below her.” She would love to be the pretty perfect stay at home wife without having to do any of the domestic work. She would love having a flock of like-minded women to worship her and support her in her ways. Fake enough to embrace the act of promoting her marriage and family to be perfect to those in her circle. I could totally see her being a wife if THT ever came to fruition.
That’s all. I’m creeped out.
I'm new here, and I realize that this topic has likely been covered before, but...while I was interested in seeing this series previously, now that I've consciously decided to walk away (still PIMO), I figured this was a good time to check it out.
Right away you see the parallels. Again, I'm sure this is not a unique experience for those ex-JWs who have watched it.
It's just an odd experience now that I'm looking from the outside in. Had I seen THT as a PIMI, I would likely have thought 'Oh, how terrible that anyone would be put in that situation....I can't imagine.' Now, I don't have to imagine (obviously THT depicts scenarios far worse than that of most in the organization, but the analogies to the high control are very relevant).
