I just wanted to confirm when translating semi-deponents. Is it that the 3rd principal part which is written passive is in fact translated actively.

Gavisus sum - I rejoiced

Instead a normal verb such as amo would have the 3rd principal part of ‘Amavi’ - I loved

Just discovered a verb in Latin that is active in form but passive in meaning:

vapulo, I - I am beaten, flogged etc.

I wonder how the need for it arose in Latin with its robust passive voice system and all the verbs that indicate beating, hitting, lashing etc.

Are there other verbs with this peculiarity? Also does vapulo have a passive voice? Would vapulor mean "I beat" or "I submit to beating"?

I am reposting this from an old post of mine in r/linguistics, on the off-chance that someone proficient in at least two out of three languages, Sanskrit, Latin and Ancient Greek, can shed some light on this. Here goes.

>I just learned the deponent verbs (such as hortor, patior) in my Latin class, the verbs that have passive forms but active meaning (for the most part). While reading more about them on Wikipedia, I found the following remark under Sanskrit.
>
>Sanskrit also contains some deponent verbs such as: सच॑ते sác-ate. This class is often simply called ‘Ātmanepada’ or middle voice, without further classifications to distinguish deponents from the true middle voice forms.
>
>Can someone explain how the three terms in this discussion--Atmanepada, Deponent verbs, and Middle Voice--relate to one another? Do they mean the same thing (in the context of Sanskrit), or are they slightly different?

Since this is r/sanskrit, I have modified the question accordingly. I am mostly looking for more information about atmanepada verbs, and connections to deponent verbs/middle voice. As a side note: when I learned Sanskrit in school, I was given to understand that आत्मने/परस्मै/उभय पद is a mere classification of verbs, without there necessarily being any semantic distinction. So any sort of additional information would be helpful.

If so, how would they be conjugated? I was trying to translate "was abused" into Latin but apparently the word for "abuse" is a deponent verb (obloquor). Maybe obloquor means both "I abuse" and "I'm abused"? But honestly I don't think so.

Suppose I want to say "A word is spoken by my mother."

"Verbum matre mea loquator" looks like gibberish to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

Would you have to use the active form here? Or is there some way to express it passively?

So deponent verbs are passive in form, but active in meaning. Is it possible by context to be passive in form and meaning, or is that bad grammar?

E.g., Vir a militibus secutus erat. The man had been followed by the soldiers.

If you're doing a morphological gloss of a verb form like loquitur, what is the morpheme breakdown, and how would you label the morphemes? -tur is really a passive morpheme (along with a 3rd person and a singular morpheme), but it's not passive here. In a morphological transcription, would you label it as passive anyway?

loqui-tur

speak-3.SG.PASS

In previous lessons, we went over the middle and passive voice, and its uses and meanings. There are some verbs that, due to their meaning, only exist in the middle or passive voice, and have no active voice. These types of verbs are called deponent verbs. English has no analogous feature, so this will require example to explain.

When you come across a deponent verb in the lexicon, the entry will look something like this:

αἰσθάνομαι, αἰσθήσομαι, ᾐσθόμην, --, ᾔσθημαι, --, feel, sense

All the principle parts are rendered in the middle voice, instead of the active. This is the signal that this verb only exists in the middle voice. To the Greeks, feeling can be something that is only of interest to the subject, and so naturally such a verb can only be expressed in the middle voice. In English, however, feeling is an active verb. Thus, all deponent verbs are understood as having active meaning, no matter their actual voice. Notice also that there is a missing sixth principle part. The sixth would normally express the aorist passive, but since this verb is deponent, there can be no other voice than middle. Thus, there can be no way to say “They were sensed” in Greek without rephrasing it to use a verb that wasn’t deponent. Also, there is no active voice, so there is no such thing as “αἰσθάνω”. Note also the third principle part is a second aorist deponent, using the second aorist thematic vowel omicron, rather than alpha.

Conjugation of deponents is straightforward, applying the usual rules for middle or passive conjugation. Just to make it clear, I’ll conjugate this in the present middle indicative.

Deponents can be middle or passive. One example of a passive deponent is:

βούλομαι, βουλήσομαι, --, --, βεβούλημαι, ἐβουλήθην, want

You can tell this is a passive deponent, rather than a middle deponent, by the sixth principle part. All deponents are understood as having active meaning, even the passive deponents. So it makes perfect sense to say “αἴλουρον ἐβουλήθην” (I wanted a cat), as strange as it would seem to put an accusative by a passive. Since most of the tenses have identical middle and passive forms, and all deponents are understood to have active meanings, it doesn’t much matter whether you can identify them as middle or passive deponents.

The examples given so far are complete deponents, but som

22/10/21

κεῖμαι

(OP: this is known as a deponent verb which is active in meaning but takes its form from a different voice, most commonly the middle.)

I.to be laid (used as a Pass. to τίθημι), and so to lie, lie outstretched, Hom., etc.; ὁ δ᾽ ἐπ᾽ ἐννέα κεῖτο πέλεθρα lay stretched over nine plethra, Od.; κειμένωι ἐπεμπηδᾶν to kick him when he's down (OP: Go Odysseus!)

2.to lie asleep, repose, Hom.; ὑπὸ γαστέρ᾽ ἐλυσθεὶς κείμην -under the ram's belly, Od.; *κακὸν κείμενον a sleeping evil, Soph.

3.to lie sick or wounded, lie in misery ἐν νήσῳ κεῖτο - lie ill

4.to lie dead, κεῖμαι δὲ νεκρὸς περὶ νεκρῷ - I lie dead next to the dead

II. of laws, κεῖται νόμος the law is laid down, Eur., Thuc.; οἱ νόμοι οἱ κείμενοι -the established laws, Ar.; κεῖται ζημία -the penalty is fixed by law,

2. of names, κεῖται ὄνομα the name is given, Hdt., Xen. (OP: comment: I think the figurative idea here is laying down a name upon reality, or the world)

III. metaph., πένθος ἐνὶ φρεσὶ κεῖται grief lies heavy on my heart, Od.; ταῦτα θεῶν ἐν γούνασι κεῖται, i. e. these things are yet in the power of the gods, to give or not

2.κεῖσθαι ἔν τινι to rest entirely or be dependent on him, Pind.; θεῶι κείμεθα Soph.

Tomorrow’s word: δή

Naal (Naalu bu') is a classical language once widely spoken across the continent of Kenas. While Naal has since ceased to function as a spoken language with the decline and collapse of the Naal Empire, it lives on in its descendant langauges, and perhaps more importantly, its function as a lingua franca for communication and for literature among the many different peoples an kingdoms across Kenas and beyond.

Naal is primarily an agglutinative language with fusional traits. Clitics are affixed to both the beginning and end of roots depending upon their function.

The form of Naal displayed here represents the refined literary style that was developed throughout the Imperial Period, and continues to be used by writers into the medieval and early modern period of Kenasic history.

Phonology

Consonant Inventory

/ɬ/ exists as a syllable terminal allophone of /l/

Naal possesses complex sandhi rules, which are beyond the scope of this introduction, and will receive a post and explanation of their own in time.

Vowel Inventory

Diphthongs

Naal allows diphthongs to be created from any combination of short vowels, however it has more restricted uses when long and glottalized vowels come into play.

Long vowels may only exist in the initial position in a vowel cluster, as well, no two long vowels may exist adjacently, nor may a long vowel be followed by the short variant of itself, nor by the glottalized variant of itself.

aai is a valid diphthong, iaa is not a valid diphthong, nor are aaaa, aaii, aaa, nor aaa'.

Glottalized consonants must be in the initial position as well, and may not be followed by another glottalized consonant

a'a is a valid diphthong, aa' is not

Orthography

Naal is

I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.

Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.

I'm having trouble distinguishing between the usage of the active form of υπερασπίζω and the middle-passive form υπερασπίζομαι.

Το Λεξικό Τριανταφυλλίδη seems to indicate that υπερασπίζομαι is used like a transitive (μεταβατικό) and semi-deponent (αποθετικό) verb, even though there is an active voice with some overlap.

This is from the entry in Triantafyllidis:

>υπερασπίζω (P2. 1β) & υπερασπίζομαι (P2. 1α)
>
>1.βοηθώ ή προστατεύω κπ. ή κτ. που απειλείται από έναν κίνδυνο:
>
>Υπερασπίζομαι την πατρίδα μου.
>
>H λέαινα υπερασπίστηκε τα παιδιά της με αυτοθυσία.
>
>Συσπειρώθηκαν για να υπερασπιστούν τα κοινά τους συμφέροντα, να προστατέψουν. Yπερασπίζεται με πάθος τις ιδέες, τις απόψεις, τις θέσεις του.
>
>2. υποστηρίζω κπ. ο οποίος κατηγορείται για κτ.:
>
>Ποιος δικηγόρος θα σε υπερασπίσει στο δικαστήριο;
>
>Όλοι ήταν εναντίον του και μόνο εγώ τον υπερασπίστηκα*.*
>
>Πρέπει να υπερασπίσεις την υπόληψή (character) μου.
>
>Δεν είναι ικανός να υπερασπιστεί μόνος του τον εαυτό του.

So here it seems like the literal sense of "protect, defend" uses the middle-passive voice, while the figurative use of "protect, defend" (i.e. from accusations or legal claims) can either be active or middle-passive).

So the active voice (υπερασπίζω) doesn't seem useful. It's hard to imagine what a passive construction would sound like - i.e. "I was protected/defended by my body guards." I suppose one would have to paraphrase that somehow...

In terms of expressing "to defend ones-self" it seems like this is exclusively - υπερασπίζομαι τον εαυτό μου - rather than *υπερασπίζω τον εαυτό μου**.** That seems a bit counter-intuitive. Is the latter simply wrong? Or can I say something like, "*υπερασπίζω τον εαυτό μου"?

When I turn to Babiniotis' lexicon, paradoxically, he provides examples in the active voice for literal defense and in the middle voice for metaphorical defense (i.e. "defending the fatherland"); the opposite of Triantafyllidis.

>υπερασπίζω ρ.

Hi everyone, I've been given an essay in my Greek module which is to evaluate whether deponency in Biblical Greek is a legitimate feature of the language and I was hoping someone would have some resources to share on the subject.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-uus#Latin

I've always wondered why the perfect active participle, having (verb)ed, is only found in deponent verbs. I thought it kinda foolish and wasteful you can't express something like "having eaten" in Latin.

Alot of great jokes get posted here! However just because you have a joke, doesn't mean it's a dad joke.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT NSFW, THIS IS ABOUT LONG JOKES, BLONDE JOKES, SEXUAL JOKES, KNOCK KNOCK JOKES, POLITICAL JOKES, ETC BEING POSTED IN A DAD JOKE SUB

Try telling these sexual jokes that get posted here, to your kid and see how your spouse likes it.. if that goes well, Try telling one of your friends kid about your sex life being like Coca cola, first it was normal, than light and now zero , and see if the parents are OK with you telling their kid the "dad joke"

I'm not even referencing the NSFW, I'm saying Dad jokes are corny, and sometimes painful, not sexual

So check out r/jokes for all types of jokes

r/unclejokes for dirty jokes

r/3amjokes for real weird and alot of OC

r/cleandadjokes If your really sick of seeing not dad jokes in r/dadjokes

Punchline !

Edit: this is not a post about NSFW , This is about jokes, knock knock jokes, blonde jokes, political jokes etc being posted in a dad joke sub

Edit 2: don't touch the thermostat

Do your worst!

They were cooked in Greece.

I'm surprised it hasn't decade.

Don't you know a good pun is its own reword?

Two muffins are in an oven, one muffin looks at the other and says "is it just me, or is it hot in here?"

Then the other muffin says "AHH, TALKING MUFFIN!!!"

I am trying to learn Latin and I am currently making a verb table with conjugations and so on, and I came across the verb "morior" which I think means "to die". I searched it up on Wiktionary to find the conjugations but I have absolutely no idea what is happening with this verb. Why does it seem so irregular?

https://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/morior

For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.

I said "hey look, an escaPEA"

No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!

Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂

It really does, I swear!

And now I’m cannelloni

Because she wanted to see the task manager.

Ants don’t even have the concept fathers, let alone a good dad joke. Keep r/ants out of my r/dadjokes.

But no, seriously. I understand rule 7 is great to have intelligent discussion, but sometimes it feels like 1 in 10 posts here is someone getting upset about the jokes on this sub. Let the mods deal with it, they regulate the sub.

But that’s comparing apples to oranges

And boy are my arms legs.

Heard they've been doing some shady business.

but then I remembered it was ground this morning.

Edit: Thank you guys for the awards, they're much nicer than the cardboard sleeve I've been using and reassures me that my jokes aren't stale

Edit 2: I have already been made aware that Men In Black 3 has told a version of this joke before. If the joke is not new to you, please enjoy any of the single origin puns in the comments

BamBOO!

They’re on standbi

A play on words.

My daughter, Chewbecca, not so much.

Pilot on me!!

I just learned the deponent verbs (such as hortor, patior) in my Latin class, the verbs that have passive forms but active meaning (for the most part). While reading more about them on Wikipedia, I found the following remark under Sanskrit.

>Sanskrit also contains some deponent verbs such as: सच॑ते sác-ate. This class is often simply called ‘Ātmanepada’ or middle voice, without further classifications to distinguish deponents from the true middle voice forms.

I don't have any background with Ancient Greek (unlike Sanskrit and Latin), which is the prominent example of Middle Voice, a concept that I don't fully understand.

Can someone explain how the three terms in this discussion--Atmanepada, Deponent verbs, and Middle Voice--relate to one another? Do they mean the same thing (in the context of Sanskrit), or are they slightly different?

Also, if they mean the same thing, then why is Latin said to lack the middle voice?

are they just conjugated like passive verbs but can they have both active and passive meanings?