The flood myth of Genesis was not merely inspired by the flood myth of the Sumerians and later Semitic Akkadians; the Genesis flood myth is the more ancient flood myth, and the name of Noach(נֹחַ) can be traced to the names of the Sumerian and Akkadian flood heroes, Ziusudra (Sumerian: 𒍣𒌓𒋤𒁺) and Utnapishtim (Akkadian: 𒌓𒍣). You will notice that these two names incorporate the Sumerograms zi (𒍣, "life, breath, throat" in Sumerian and "throat, life" in Akkadian, and referred to in Akkadian as napištum) and ud/utu (𒌓, "sun, day, heat, fever, summer" in Sumerian and "sun, day" in Akkadian).
The primacy of the Sumerogram zi (𒍣) in the flood myth story, referred to into Akkadian as napištum, is the reason that the Hebrew cognate (to the Akkadian napištum), nephesh (נֶפֶשׁ, meaning "a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion"), is used four times in Genesis 1 (referring to "creatures"), twice in Genesis 2 (referring to "life" and "being/soul"), and then not mentioned again until the blessing of Genesis 9 (just after the flood), in which chapter it is used 7 times to establish the covenant with "Noach," ensuring that God will never again destroy the World with such a flood. This word is a direct reference to the previous traditions.
So, why was Noach renamed from names denoting "life" to a name denoting "rest," by way of the Hebrew word nuach (נוּחַ)? The first usage of nuach is in Genesis 8:4:
> In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat.
This is merely a bit of word play, and it should be noted that word play was central to Mesopotamian knowledge, in that word play was actually considered a form of divine revelation about the underlying nature of reality. Probing words for connections could reveal truths about existence. The one who came to rest in the story of the flood was the hero, and so the hero could be referred to in connection with that word for rest, nuach. But the connection goes much deeper.
Two distinct words meaning "to rest/relax" are attested from Old Babylonian. The first is ni₂ dub₂ (𒉎𒂀), referred to in Akkadian as napāšu. The Second is dub₃ gurum (𒄭𒃵), referred to in Akkadian as nâhu, and this wor
... keep reading on reddit ➡The story pre-dates the writing of the Book of Exodus by about 1500 years.
In it, Utnipishtim was tasked by the god Enki (Ea) to abandon his worldly possessions and create a giant ship to be called Preserver of Life in preparation of a giant flood that would wipe out all life.
The Preserver of Life was made of solid timber. The ship was 200 feet in length, width and height and had seven floors, each floor divided into 9 sections, and was built in 7 days. The entrance to the ship was sealed once everyone had boarded the ship. Utnipishtim brought his wife, family, and relatives along with the craftsmen of his village, baby animals, and grains.
Considering this is a pretty clear case of plagiarism, doesn’t this call into question the supposed inerrancy of the Bible?
I was having a conversation with a Christian about whether the flood myth from the epic of gilgamesh was written before or after the Noah's flood. I insisted that the Mesopotamian myth was older but since I am no expert I would like to clear things up
Name: Utnapishtim ,Eld Utnapishtim and Novo Utnapushtim, [The Eld/Novo, Children of Utnapishtim]
Flag/Symbol: A bare arm holding a knife bent backwards forming an arch over a regional symbol, on a field of red. https://imgur.com/872UEkI
Location: The area shaded in Yellow is the Claim. https://imgur.com/gallery/rbISSUp
Geography: Mediterranean coastal. Lots of pine trees. Detailed map of cities and regions to be included later.
Biology/Ethnicity: population about 15,300,000. The Eld and Novo are a human variant. Typically dark haired with dark eyes, ashy skin, freckles, and sun spots.
The Eld are functionally immortal, but not deathless. They do not experience the ravages of time and related diseases (arthritis, cancer, etc.), but they can be killed by mortal wounds, exposure, starvation and dehydration, and diseases that come from outside sources (virus, bacteria, etc). Eld will look like they are in their prime between the ages of twenty five and forty. Eld can be much more physically powerful and formidable. They represent 1 in 10,000 of the people in Utnapishtim.
The Novo have an average lifespan of 75 years, with occasional longer lived individuals that vary in age to hundreds of years with the upper bound being around a thousand. Typically the average human. The Novo make up 99.99% of the population. A Novo becomes long lived if they are in persistent close contact with an Eld.
History: The Eld have occupied their land farther than history can remember. The Novo are relatively newer coming up as communities surrounding the Eld and their power. Because of the immortals, a lot of old history seems like recent events. Long ago, to solve their overpopulation problem, Eld Utnapishtim started expelling Eld (hence the creation of Novo Utnapishtim with interbreeding with regular human tribes that have since been absorbed into the culture) The largest event that happened in any recentness is the ruler of the city of Karnak, one of the long lived Novo, died without leaving an heir or successor. Around the same time, the city of Karaam-Bulum suffered a disaster and was burned to the ground.
Society: Because the Eld are immortal, their exclusive land, Eld Utnapishtim, suffers from overpopulation. The land is divided into homesteads, or parcels of land that a nuclear family of Eld can live off of self sufficiently. The Patriarch or Matriarch, depending on who is the full blooded Eld, is t
... keep reading on reddit ➡[Hi, i have been facing some serious writers block recently, as always seems to happen at some point (I've been making sure to post SOMETHING every couple of weeks, baby steps). I want to make sure I get at least the planned story I have for my two claims done, so i'm going to push that through really quick so hopefully I can get my creative juices flowing again. Every time I try to write I feel like I have to advance this plot so I'm just going to get it out of the way.]
IMPORTANT BACKSTORY. The villain, Lammasu, is a magic user with the body of a lion, head of a man. He collected the hearts of magic users because with them he can tap into their users magic to use in a big push of magic. He is a being who twisted his own magic to become a monster.
The Selkie tribes are 95% controlled by Utnapishtim. They are not slaves, but they are not free.
The Sons of Blood are an Eld Mercenary group made entirely of immortal Eld.
Eld Utnapishtim is the only place where Eld can be born and be functionally immortal.
Shermagaza "Sherma" Nephimechesh is the only other Eld magic user. She doesn't have a lot of magic strength, but she has a lot of finesse. She is in Pandaland serving their king.
THE STORY: Lammasu uses his hoarded hearts to make a magic glyph, that he wears around his neck like a collar. Magic users that come too close in proximity to the glyph have their magic twisted and they become demonic monsters under the control of Lammasu. He triggers this glyph in the city of Gemmen, where many Utnapishti magic users go to apprentice. Boom, he automatically has a small army of monsters. Gemmen is razed and much of the population is killed.
Lammasu moves south-east, he raids the cities of Wesser and Wex, where all magic users are either executed before they could be turned, or abandoned outside their respective city. The cities survive. Then Lammasu continues South-East to the land that the Selkie Tribes occupy. A coalition of Utnapishtim city states chase behind them. The panhandle of the selkie tribes lands is razed, and the Utnapishtim armies move the main body of their force in between Lammasu and more populated Southern Selkie. As pacifists, Selkie magic users and many other Selkie are shipped to Utnapishtim to remove them form the battlefield. They go to Nobu, Rouk, Amon, Wesser, and Wex.
But Lammasu pulls a sneaky. With the bulk of the Utnapishtim armies on the other side of him, away from Utnapishtim, he quickly moves North-West and takes the
... keep reading on reddit ➡
I am not a biblical historian nor do I harbor any real interest in biblical history. But I do have a keen interest in the history of viticultural as it relates to the development of winemaking starting some estimated 10,000 years ago in the area south of the Caspian Sea, around the Caucasus Mountians, in what is known as Transcaucasia.
The poem the Epic of Gilgamesh is our earliest known work in literature and the first reference to viticulture known to man. Gilgamesh was the tyrant of Erech who involved himself in all manner of adventure.
During one of his later adventures abroad he encounters an individual named Utanapishtim. He happened to be the Babylonian Noah, who tells Gilgamesh about the Flood story. Yes, the same flood story repeated in the Xtian bible, in the book of Genesis.
Evidence indicates that the Epic of Gilgamesh was written about the time of Hammurabi, which is around the 18th century B.C. So we have good reason to believe that the story of Noah and his famous ark is rooted in origin at least 500 years before the Torah was penned by Moses. Half a millennium.
This revelation came to me when reading "Dionysus" by Edward Hyams; circa early 1960s. A book on wine grape history suddenly created an amusing smile on my atheist face. It was an unexpected surprise that I felt compelled to share with others who may not of known about this interesting bit of history.
https://imgur.com/gallery/7wo7SCA
Image from GeorgiaPioneers.com
https://preview.redd.it/jbz5drh9rnb21.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=52b2bc15b87aacc6f1b9221811801a6ea9457abd
Eddic entered the cobblers store. He was barefoot but carries a worn through pair of shoes. The dust of the roads coated every bit of him, his Leather vest and baldrick, his wide brimmed hat, his loose wool shirt and pants, the pack on his back. It tanned his skin, and he smelled something awful. Walking at his heel a medium sized dog looked lazily around.
“Eddic!” A young looking man dropped the awl and pair of boots he was working on. “Ten years, you have to admit I am getting them pretty good.”
Tombrose the Cobbler grabbed the holed shoes and looked at the soles. “You had them resoled, by what must have been a one armed peasant woman with a stick. Why didn’t you bring them here, these poor poor shoes.” He took them over to he work table. “Tell me what the bad man has done to you.”
“Hey I resoled those myself.”
Tombrose picked up a ground lens and looked at the leather of the shoe “Shhh! The shoes are speaking! Wesser? Rouk? The stitching is horrible.”
“Well there aren’t many cobblers in Nobu.”
“Why didn’t you bring them to me then?” Tombrose shook his head and picked at a loose thread.
“Because Nobu is on the other side of of Utnapishtim.”
“Excuses. You’re lucky you’re my nephew.”
“Great great great great nephew.” Eddic counted on his fingers.
“Semantics. Where are you going next?”
“I’ve been everywhere. I've been over every foot of the coast and on every road, game trail, and alley way. I’ve followed every stream and rill from ocean to ocean.” Eddic pulled out a sheaf of pages covered in careful maps. ‘That’s it, that’s the rest of Utnapishtim.”
“So where’s next?” Tombrose asked.
“I deliver these to the library.” Indicating the maps “And then the bankers, and then the docks. I have a ship, a crew, supplies for years, muskets, cannon, I’m going to find those lands the travelers talk about.”
“You’ll need a good cobbler.”
“I’m sure they’ll have shoes wherever I going.” Then he thought of some of the stories he had heard, of mermaids, being with eight legs, ten, some without anything that looked like a foot. “Or they might not. We leave in the morning, will you be ready by th
... keep reading on reddit ➡Data collected formally by appointed census takers over 5 year period, current as of 2 C.E. Method of collection, full sample census, systematic collection and documentation.
TOTAL POPULATION: 15,729,840
FORMAL MILITARY SERVICE: 9,602
INFORMAL MILITIA: 1,361,980
URBAN RESIDENT: 5,894,371
RURAL/FRONTIER RESIDENT: 9,420,624
RESIDENT OF SHIP: 12,295
RESIDENT OUT OF COUNTRY/unknown: 402,550
ELD POPULATION: 1,569
MAGIC USERS: 2
MALE ELD: 768
FEMALE ELD: 801
AGE COHORT: (unknown: Eld Utnapishtim) 216
AGE COHORT: (unknown: wild) 358
AGE COHORT: UNDER 100: 121
AGE COHORT: BETWEEN 100 and 1000: 239
AGE COHORT: BETWEEN 1,000 and 10,000: 408
AGE COHORT: OLDER THAN 10,000: 228
NOVO POPULATION: 15,728,271
MAGIC USERS: 15,621
MALE NOVO: 8,021,418
FEMALE NOVO: 7,706,853
I have been reading about several different protagonists in comparative flood myths that have originated over the years:
Ziusudra, Atra-Hasis, Utnapishtim, Manu, Deucalion, Pyrrha, Gun-Yu, Bergelmir, Noah.
These are different flood accounts that were developed over millennia by different cultures. From what I understand, most historians agree that these myths originate and stem from King Ziusudra and the account was recorded in Sumerian somewhere around 2900-2800 B.C. The subsequent myths all seem to have evolved over time to fit various cultures and their different gods. It appears that Noah is derived from the Mesopotamian flood myth of Utnapishtim which is recorded in the epic of Gilgamesh (which is a fiction).
I honestly didn't know about this when I was a TBM and I can tell when talking to my TBM family members about it that they just prefer to ignore it as it can bring about some cognitive dissonance. LDS cannon teaches a literal Noah.
I don't care to discuss whether or not there was a global flood. It's been heavily discussed before. I am curious however, if this is something that has been talked about and if there is a faithful response to the idea that Noah and the flood myth are derived from earlier flood myths that had different gods and storylines, as well as different reasons for the actual flood that were developed years prior in writing, and probably millennia of orally passed down traditions. It seems obvious that the bible story of Noah is just a rehashing of a story that was mythological in the first place.
Having discovered the method of exploitation of gifting so much food that a Selkie tribe cannot possible hope to match the gift, and thus indebt themselves. The city states of Wesser and Wex sent massive shipments of food and began a war not fought with guns, but with gifts of food that would be recorded in history as the War of Feasts.
A few Selkie tribes sought out the Utnapishtim invaders immediately, accepting the food because they had been impoverished and hungry. They were fed and treated for ailments and set to work clearing land for cultivation. In any sustained conflict, they would need to grow more food to use.
Expeditions of Utnapishti would set out with trains of pack animals carrying non perishable foods with the goal of finding Selkie tribes. Trackers and Frontiersmen would locate settlements, and the trains of food would rush to the location before the tribe could relocate. The Selkie would send their hunters to watch for Utnapishti, and to steal or destroy food if they got the chance. Already hidden settlements of Selkie relocated into remote and exercised the utmost care to be invisible.
Within a few years, more than 95 percent of the Selkie were under The control of Wesser and Wex, and the remainder were hidden.
The Utnapishti built a port, that grew into a city that rivaled the biggest cities of Utnapishtim. They called it Grayport, for the monochromatic color that they had to work with in building materials. In Grayport, Selkie dressed in Utnapishti clothing, spoke Utnapishti, and worked Utnapishti jobs. They would sail out on Utnapishti ships.
To curtail abuse by Utnapishti, the governments of Wesser and Wex policed the city ferociously. Selkie were organized into groups that were under administrators appointed by the Utnapishti princes. The Selkie in each group only needed to follow the direction of their administrator.
A collection of Tribal Elders submitted a document of rights that their people demanded. The Rulers of Wesser and Wex net with them and they came up with the following compromises.
- Selkie will never be required or coerced to kill another human.
- Selkie have a right to stillness, and must be allowed to travel at the pace of their own devising. They may not deviate their course, however when under direction.
- Selkie must be allowed to play The Game, and allowed to depart into the forests to play it once a year.
- Selkie have a right to act by their own directions when not taking direction from another
'''
The epic of Gilgamesh is one of the oldest pieces of literature recovered ever. For instance the character Noah from the Bible is thought to be derived from Utnapishtim in this epic. The people that are saying biblical names are forgetting that most of those stories are cobbled together from other ancient stories. If your answer is Adam just remember there were many religions predating the 'adam' character by thousands of years. Genesis is not the literal beginning of time, it is an allegorical story of human morality. Summerian and akkadian names are where I would start.
'''
Author: /u/primitivejoe
who knows
the shape of the great sea,
Gilgamesh?
I have seen it.
the flood poured through me like molten lead through cloth
and even I don't know.
now you come here
to ask for immortality.
your childishness makes me smile.
return to your mud walls Strong Man.
sit at your muddy river banks
and cry for Enkidu
so that you too may know the sea.
To set the scene, representatives of a Selkie tribe are traveling with a Utnapishtim explorer group to meet with their leaders.
----------------------------
The sea runner UPT Bull of Heaven was a glorious thing. The Utnapishtim sailors were lucky they had such a thing all to their own. Toluk Pakaru dangled over the side, held by a rope and feet planted on the hull of the ship. His many pronged fishing spear held a squirming Rillfish, which he deposited into the net bag slung on his shoulder. Net full and the salty seaspray soaking his buckskins, Toluk ascended the rope back to the ship’s deck.
Obel Bolf and Junsorel Bolfaru were waiting for him, the Elders did not take to the joy of riding the ship that the hunters that they took with them did. “Toluk, we need to speak with you.”
“I am happy to aid you, Elders.” He dropped the bag of fish on the deck. “What is it?”
“The Utnapishti say we are near to their homeland, we have not yet been able to talk their language besides conversing with the two ageless ones. You, have a better grasp than any of the elder’s do. You will need to speak for us.”
“Elders I am not in a position to negotiate for my people.”
“You are the only one that can speak. We will be there to aid you, but you will need to do the speaking.”
“I will accept your guidance in this.” Toluk positioned himself to show obedience. “I will meditate on my responsibility.”
---------------------------------
The next day the Bull of Heaven docked in Wex, the southernmost city state in Utnapishtim. As they were not expected, the Utnapishti sent a runner to the Principal House of government. Not wanting to waste time, the Elders and their escort proceeded to the building.
Centuries old and made of stone, the Principal House, where the princes appointed in running the city state held court and office, stood with doors open. A trio of princes and the Ruler called Parun of Wex, were there waiting.
Parun stated “We heard you found savages that wanted to negotiate with us for their freedom? I didn’t know you were in the habit of slaving, Eddic.”
“It was accidental, I don’t understand it myself, but they seem to believe in it quite heavily.” Eddic, one of the long lived Utnapishti that had traveled with them replied.
“Ah, well what of it? I admit I am not prepared for this today. Few probably would be. Who of these ‘Selkie’ will speak for the whole?”
“I do,” Toluk said. “insofar as I can speak to you.”
“Good. Explain what is going on.” Th
... keep reading on reddit ➡this is the juicy node before the Raid Battle. god i still hate draco's mere existence. anyway, bringing this out on the eve of the post-raid sections, so that people aren't going around with misinformation filling their heads.
- Critical Prosperous City - Babylon: Section Six - Decisive Battle, King Nebuchadnezzar
>Pre-node Dialogue
King of Babylon:
…… Queen.
Oh, my dear queen.
Oh queen, where are you?
How long shall you leave me alone…?
???:
Fufu.
Oh my beloved.
There is no need to tremble.
There is no need to fear.
I am here, o’ golden king.
King of Babylon:
Ooh, my queen!
My Queen Draco!
Bewitching Queen Draco:
I am here, I will always be by your side.
Oh, Golden King.
You should follow your desires.
Build a prosperous city of unmatched splendour.
Gather up gold.
Amass the gold, and build your riches to be as mountains.
Gather your sins.
Pile up your sins.
Oh my beloved sinner, the Apostle of Desire.
There is no need to fear, for you are not alone.
Know that, always, at your golden throne…
you may find me.
As long as you remain an outstanding king, I will…
regardless of how much filth you clad yourself in,
I shall reward you with the sweetest of nectars一一
> Pre-battle load screen
Decisive Battle, King Nebuchadnezzar
After enlisting the aid of the Heroic Spirit Enkidu,
the group once again invaded the Ultra-Enormous Ziggurat.
On the highest floor, the 99th floor above the ground,
the Throne Room where the King of the Golden City sits is found.
A second audience with the King of Babylon一一一
The King confessed to everything.
His true identity was not that of Gilgamesh, the King of Heroes,
but instead the soul of Nebuchadnezzar II in his later years,
who has achieved a pseudo-incarnation into the body of the strongest Heroic Spirit.
And now, the King declares the extermination of the group.
It is now time for the decisive battle.
>Pre-battle Dialogue
King of Babylon:
一一一 So that’s how it is.
I shall confess, then.
I am…
No, I am, I am none other than Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylonia!
Nebuchadnezzar II:
I craved this.
I desired this.
I tried to transform Babylon into a golden city, by challenging governments,
starting wars, and incidentally taking many prisoners一一
But I couldn’t do it.
I realised I could never do it.
Why was it so?
What was I missing?
I tried every method, I did every means.
What could I be missing?
Wa
... keep reading on reddit ➡I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.
Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.
So, I’m looking for figures throughout all mythology and legends for immortal people. However, all i can find are just lists of gods.
If anyone can provide a list of people granted or cursed with immortality, or give a few examples for me to look into, that would be great.
The reason I’m asking is because I’m thinking of writing a story with a small town of these immortals, women, children, men, the elderly, all are welcome.
Do your worst!
I'm surprised it hasn't decade.
[Here's another story. See the notes at the end!]
For the life of him, Noah couldn’t figure out what a cubit was. “What the fuck is a cubit?” he said to no one in particular.
“Language,” said Mrs. Noah, not looking up from her book. “Think of the children.”
“The children are one hundred years old,” said Noah.
In truth, he didn’t normally go in for foul language. But he was about to become a sailor—a sea captain, in fact. He figured a little salty language could help round out the image.
“Says here a cubit is the length of the king’s forearm, from his elbow to the tip of his middle finger,” said Noah. “That can’t be right.”
“Mmmm,” said Mrs. Noah.
“Must be a tall king, with great big long arms,” said Noah. He spread out both arms and twiddled his fingers. “I’ve only got 300 cubits to work with.”
“That’s nice, dear.”
Noah had done the math. 300 by 50 by 30 cubits gave him a cubic cubage of 450,000. That sounded fine until Shem pointed out that there were approximately three million species of animals in the entirety of creation. “Take away maybe half a million water-borne species that don’t need a boat,” Shem had said, leaving Noah vaguely hopeful. The numbers were going down. “Of course,” Shem continued, “You’ve got to double the remainder, because it’s two of each. Call it, say, four and a half—maybe five million animals total?” Noah felt less hopeful. Fuck, thought Noah. Doublefuck.
“Five million animals?” asked Ham, Noah’s second oldest son.
“And that’s not counting food,” said Shem. “I’m thinking we’ll be in the hundreds of millions of cubic cubage by volume, for food alone. And of course, then there’s—”
“All right,” said Noah, cutting in. He was beginning to suspect that math was bad for morale.
“Maybe,” said Japheth, Noah’s youngest son, “we could get the animals delivered sort of—hibernated. Then we could fit them together, like that game with four squares arranged into different shapes and you rotate them to—”
“Well that’s just ridiculous,” said Shem. Shem was the naturalist of the family.
“Not more ridiculous than getting them delivered in the first place,” said Ham. “It’s not like Dad’s going to be out there catching mastodons with a net.”
“Dammit, I forgot about mastodons,” said Noah.
“Language,” said Mrs. Noah again, as she licked a finger and turned a page.
“My point,” said Shem, “is that they’ll never fit, even without the food. Look, I don’t think you understand what five million animals really means.” He felt a meta
... keep reading on reddit ➡For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.
I said "hey look, an escaPEA"
No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!
Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂
It really does, I swear!
Because she wanted to see the task manager.
Heard they've been doing some shady business.
They’re on standbi
but then I remembered it was ground this morning.
Edit: Thank you guys for the awards, they're much nicer than the cardboard sleeve I've been using and reassures me that my jokes aren't stale
Edit 2: I have already been made aware that Men In Black 3 has told a version of this joke before. If the joke is not new to you, please enjoy any of the single origin puns in the comments
Pilot on me!!
Nothing, he was gladiator.
Or would that be too forward thinking?
