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On September 4, 476 AD, which was 449,029 glorious days after the traditional founding of the city of Rome by Romulus, the recently coronated emperor and 11-year-old boy Romulus Augustulus was forced to write a letter of resignation to Emperor Zeno in Constantinople while under the thumb of the Ostrogothic king Odoacer who went on to establish a kingdom of his own in the Italian peninsula which was nominally a client of the Roman Empire but which realistically was entirely independent of it. This event is generally, though not uncontroversially, seen as the end of the Western Roman Empire. In truth, the western empire had been in terminal decline for some time and Odoacer was not truly the first Germanic politician to essentially rule it, though others like Stilicho had not gone so far as to abolish the western imperial office. Odoacer would himself rule in the Roman style though not with a Roman title and at least officially he considered himself aligned to the eastern emperor. By the time of Justinian in the next century, the Ostrogothic kingdom would be a clearly foreign one and the Roman Empire would briefly retake it--twice. Regardless of whether Western Rome really fell in a day or sometime in the vague time period of the 400s and 500s, the dissolution of the Western Roman Empire meant a sea change for the geopolitics of Europe. Decades later the Franks would consolidate and the mighty Ostrogothic, Visigothic, and Vandalic kingdoms who formed in the period where emperors were still kicking in the west became important regional powers in the Western Mediterranean before they themselves were snuffed out either by the Eastern Roman Empire or the Umayyad Caliphate. That the Roman Empire changed the course of world history in innumerable ways is known to all of us and I don't think anyone would debate it. But as students of history I think we should all reflect on the fall of the Western Roman Empire and its meaning for the history of the world.
On that intense note, contest winners! Our fall-of-the-Western-Roman-Empire contest had a large number of delicious entries. In first place, by u/mcflymikes, we have this post about how Majorian will save the empire... or not. In second, by u/BanthaMilk, we have this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/RoughRomanMemes/comments/peh0wx/
... keep reading on reddit β‘
The Merovingians are infamous for not practicing primogeniture and instead dividing the kingdom among all the sons of the previous king, leading to much fratricide.
How does this compare to the other "barbarian kingdoms"? Were the Visigoths in Spain, and the Ostrogoths in Italy plagued by similar disputes? How about the Lombards or the Vandals?
Hello all, I tried to ask this question on AskHistorians and got no answer. Thought I'd try you fine folks as well.
I have recently taken an interest in the Ostrogothic Kingdom that developed from the fall of Rome. And I have found a lot of interesting information about whether or not the Goths constitute an ethnicity or not, whether it should be considered a continuation of Roman policies or not, a bunch of neat stuff.
But I have found a relative dearth of information that just goes into the basics of how it actually worked. If the Goths can be understood as mostly just an roving army, what did they do when not at war? Did all of them just live in barracks? That seems a bit unreasonable unless there was only a couple hundred per city.
Was there some form of hierarchy among them? It is alluded to a few times but never explained how it worked. Did some of them control territory as though they were Roman governors? Or were they given estates? How was this land divided?
The Ostrogoths apparently were given legal privileges, but no one seems to get into the details of what these privileges actually were.
Basically all the information to figure out what it meant to be an Ostrogoth in Italy is difficult to find. Or at least, it has been for me.
Anybody have any information on this, or can point me in the direction of some good books?
Thank you.
Can you restore the Ostrogothic Kingdom in CK3, if not, what would be the closest equivalent?
In real life, the Ostrogothic Kingdom was conquered by the Byzantine Empire in the mid-6th century AD.
What if the Byzantine Empire, for some reason (e.g. the Plague of Justinian coming sooner and more deadly) was unable to do that, and the Ostrogorhic Kingdom survived? Could it have survived long-term? Could they have Germanised northern Italy? If they could have survived until today, what could a modern Ostrogothia look like?
I do not believe it is necessary to understand my question). Japan was fighting against the Allies in WWII and VC did during the Vietnam war in percentages. I'm curious because it seems to be very intresting. So how did so many Koreans in former Soviet-bloc countries, which is obviously a deliberate style, and must be a very hard time finding specific links to what kind of historical precedent there is for this issue.
Emperor Zeno gave Odoacer and Theoderic roman titles and seemed to consider them as viceroys or something similar, but 50 years later Justinian invades Italy to retake it. Why such a drastic shift in narrative in 50 years? Did the Romans ever really buy the idea that italy was still part of the empire in the first place?
Belisarius was no doubt loyal to Emporor Justinian I. However, was this the only reason for his refusal?
Justinian was friends with the visigothic queen. Maybe if jistinian didnt marry theodore he could have married her. Maybe if he had a son or nephew be could have married her. Then his imperium restorii could have been less costly and could butterfly into an earlier victory in the later war with the sassanids and hence do better in the upcoming wars with the arabs or whatever. But what do u guys think?
It is known that had the Eastern Roman Empire under Emperor Justinian did not make the Eternal Peace with Persia and didn't start wars with the Vandals and the Ostrogoths and they just focus on Persia, they would have beaten the Persians and the Eastern Roman Empire would be stronger in resisting the expansion of Islam northward, and likely retain Egypt and the Levant. But what about the future developments in the former Western Roman Empire had this happened? What does the future hold for these two Kingdoms if the Byzantines hadn't destroyed them?
I've been doing some research on the fall of the Roman empire, and I was wondering - at what point did people in Italy, say, Ravenna, stop referring to themselves as Romans? Specifically, would a citizen in Ravenna in say, 500 CE call himself/herself a Roman Citizen, or would they call themselves something else?
The two events seem entirely unconnected, yet I get a message saying because I declared independence, I am gettign -60 penalty with them. The Ostrogoths are not allied with ERE, nor do they even trade with them or have a NAP! In fact they don't even like the ERE because I have a negative penality to their opinion of me because of "Past treaties with the Eastern Roman Empire".
So of the Ostrogoths aren't allied with the ERE, don't trade or have any treaties with the ERE, and don't even like the ERE, then why am I getting a -60 penalty from them for declaring independence from the ERE?
I'm wondering, besides the eastern's successful reconquest of italy, how the italian populace felt about all of this, whether there was any attempt by themselves to retain ancient roman culture, or any semblences of their military to ancient rome. Seems like they just didn't care about "roman pride" anymore and just kind of gave up.
I'm a big fan of Roman history, from ancient to Pax Romana to the fall to the reconquering. One thing that's always confused me a little, however, is the various barbarian kingdoms that harass the Roman-held territory and bit-by-bit take over their lands. To be honest they sort of seem interchangeable to me. The most I know about them is which ones Belisarius fought and where. I believe the Ostrogoths occupied Rome and most of Italy after the empire collapsed, and the Vandals occupied northern Africa? Or was it the Visigoths that occupied northern Africa?
PART 2: THE LONG AND TUMULTUOUS SHARED HISTORY OF ROMANCE AND GERMANIC NATIONS
This is Part 2-D-Ξ΄, the direct continuation of 2-D-Ξ³, which you can find here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AttackOnRetards/comments/rbwshz/continuation_of_my_previous_posts_about_the/
2-D: THE OTHER ROMANCE AND GERMANIC NATIONS IN THE MIDDLE AGES
2-D-Ξ΄: MEDIEVAL ITALY (You can read more about it here)
The history of the Italian peninsula during the medieval period can be roughly defined as the time between the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and the Italian Renaissance. The term "Middle Ages" itself ultimately derives from the description of the period of "obscurity" in Italian history during the 9th to 11th centuries, the saeculum obscurum or "Dark Age" of the Roman papacy as seen from the perspective of the 14th to 15th century Italian Humanists.
Late Antiquity in Italy lingered on into the 7th century under the Ostrogothic Kingdom and the Byzantine Empire under the Justinian dynasty, the Byzantine Papacy until the mid 8th century. The "Middle Ages" proper begin as the Byzantine Empire was weakening under the pressure of the Muslim conquests, and most of the Exarchate of Ravenna finally fell under Lombard rule in 751.
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TRANSITION FROM LATE ANTIQUITY (6th to 8th centuries)
Italy was invaded by the Visigoths in the 5th centu
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In real life, the Ostrogothic Kingdom was conquered by the Byzantine Empire in the mid-6th century AD.
What if the Byzantine Empire, for some reason (e.g. the Plague of Justinian coming sooner and more deadly) was unable to do that, and the Ostrogorhic Kingdom survived? Could it have survived long-term? Could they have Germanised northern Italy? If they could have survived until today, what could a modern Ostrogothia look like?
