Overall, I am enjoying Hawkeye better than The Falcon and Winter Soldier. I am a huge Bucky fan and thought that show was good however, Hawkeye is much more enjoyable. Clint and Kate have good chemistry and Yelena is a joy to watch. Very excited to see how this ends.

Any new observations or perspectives gleaned this time? Personally, I think rewatching it now has allowed me to appreciate it more. It is a DAMN GOOD series. I think when it was first released, it was at MAXIMUM hype where everyone was expecting the show to address EVERYTHING post-snap and everyone and their mother had a YouTube video dissecting every detail. I’m enjoying it so much more this time around.

Hey, I wanted to share with you my quiz about TFATWS. It features 25 questions from the show, I think that the difficulty level to ace it is quite high and I hope that you will enjoy this little challenge. You can check it out here - http://www.popculture-quiz.com/the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-quiz/

What score did you get? :)

So, I would like to apologise for bringing such an outdated topic, I know I’m quite late to the Disney+ series and recently I get the time to finish watching the falcon and winter soldier (so yay!). So I have avoided honest trailer and pitch meeting (due to the spoiler warning), I finally finish watching it and catch up with screen rant content.

One thing that surprise me is that how people shitting on falcon speech at the end. I really like falcon speech at the end, and feel it is inspiring. Also for a 3min speech I seriously couldn’t think of anything better speech that remind the government could do so much more, and much better instead of diverting the issue by saying “it’s complicated”. Seriously, if Ronal Regan presidency can boost the economy by increasing government spending on manufacturing weapons, I don’t see why the MCU government couldn’t increase spending on agriculture, technology and infrastructure to do the same or better. Kinda like what falcon said in the speech “do better” (see what I did there? Haha)

I think Sam Wilson acting on that scene, the energy he gave on that speech.. there is no better person to take over the phase 4 captain America mantle. Since I’m quite in the dark of why people hated that scene so much and also since the show had been out for so long. I guess everyone is calm enough to explain what make that speech bad?

TL:DR Recently I finished the series (I know I’m late and sorry for that) and I personally like the falcon speech at the end of the falcon and winter soldier. Why people hate it and make fun of it? How is that speech not impactful?

P.S. English is not my first language sorry for any grammar issue. Feel free to ask me to clarify anything

Edit: fun fact to add, after watching film theory episode kinda cover about this.. highly recommend people watch till the end from film theory. Actually falcon “do better” speech kinda reflect well in the series. Earlier in the series when falcon try to get a loan from the bank, the banker quote “you can’t live on good will forever”. But actually is the so called “good will” that help Falcon to fixed his family boat. I think the “do better” speech from falcon was directing to the government don’t try to rewind the issue pre-blip but look towards to build towards post-blip. Not deporting people and segregate people, but instead encourage people to work better together for the future. Enforcing “good will” among each other. Damn! I love this series!

Rewatching The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and I’m realizing that, without the negative influence of other people on the internet, I don’t hate John Walker. Far from it. Especially seeing him in episode 2. Dude is genuinely wanting to be the best he can and is nervous. He suddenly had this huge responsibility thrust upon him, and he doesn’t want to fail people. And he feels guilty about things he’s had to do in his past in the army, the things that caused him to win the awards and medals he has. Like dude fought hard and served his country.

And what truly sucks is how no one in the show, none of our main cast, even try to give him a chance. They immediately hate him despite him not giving anyone any reason too.

If the show really wanted him to be a second antagonist, they should have made him a bad person. Make him undeniably cocky. Make him arrogant and belittling to others. Make him corrupt.

But as the show is, I don’t hate him. Yea I’d rather have Sam be cap because we’ve grown to know him more and Steve chose him, but John still didn’t do anything wrong.

Yea when he murders that one flag smasher, that’s uncalled for (well… kinda was. The terrorist tried to kill him. It would have been better to arrest him but I don’t blame John for what he did)… but at the same time, the avengers have killed other underlings of baddies numerous times. And furthermore, John literally just witnessed his best friend get murdered in addition to having the super soldier serum which amps everything up like tenfold.

And just before this happened, the Dora Milaje show up for Zemo, but randomly start fighting John and Lemar, making would-be fatal attacks on them multiple times, but it's played for laughs... Like, what the heck did they do there? They're just doing their jobs!!!

And when John first meets Sam and Bucky it’s literally him trying to help them and even offer them a ride back to the airport. He tries to make friendly banter and even tries to work WITH them. But no… Sam and Bucky just have to be rude to him right away and not give a chance. I get Bucky being hesitant and potentially even a little rude at first given his mental state and friendship with Steve, but there’s no need for the utter hostility any of them show him.

But this is just one of the bad things about the show. There’s plenty more wrong, but this is one of the most egregious.

So i was watching the Falcon And The Winter soldier and spotted a small mistake (Marked as spoiler for the next two or so sentences):

In Episode 3, we see Zemo being imprisoned in Berlin and than escape while wearing a prison guards uniform. In Germany, police uniforms (and similiar public safety agencys) have the coat of arms of their state stiched on. So Zemo's Uniform should have a white shield, with a black bear and a golden crown on top of the shield on his right arm. But when we see them in Zemos Garage, his Uniform has a red shield with a white castle featuring 3 towers on his Arm. The coat of arms for the state of Hamburg.

It's not a major failure or anything, but i just think it's funny, that this has slipped by Marvel.

I have only seen the first episode of Hawkeye so far but I wanna know when is it set. TFatWS is happening six months after Endgame if I'm correct. What about Hawkeye?

After Sam, Steve, and Bucky escape Tony asks Natasha if she has any idea where they went. She says, "No, but I know someone who might." then it cuts to Sharon giving Team Cap their gear, then the next scene with them is Team Ironman finding them at the airport. I always thought there was a tracking device with the gear (and this is confirmed in Falcon and the Winter Soldier) and they made it easy for Sharon to steal the gear so they could track the team down.

But I wonder if Sharon was in on it and did this without being tricked. She is a spy and, as we now know, has a somewhat villainous nature. They could have pressured her into it with the knowledge of the illegal things she'd already done if she wasn't immediately on board.

This doesn't explain why she was on the run after if she was actually doing law enforcement's bidding. My theory on that is that what she's doing in Madripoor is an undercover CIA assignment.

TFATWS dealt with themes like Privilege, Supremacy, Symbols, Systemic Oppression, Societal division, Mental Health issues (PTSD and Impostor's Syndrome).

Eternals dealt with themes like godhood, love and emotions vs instincts, free will and chaos vs control and peace, blind faith, sacrificing a few for the many.

Both dealt with those themes well enough, but not as good as the writers/directors seemed to want to explore them.

And that's because of the ambition of the writers/directors being too high both for storylines and for the characters they could cram in a limited time.

That lead to some characters and their stories falling flat and hurting the themes they were going for.

Also, both movies were kind of expository in many ways, because there was a lot they were trying to do in terms of world-building.

I liked both projects a lot (a lot more than most people I think), but these problems hurt them quite a lot because when you set up your ambitions so damn high (and that is obvious on the screen) and then they fall flat, the disappointment is higher than when a very lowkey, less ambitious projects doesn't fly as high as it set its eyes to.

I hope Marvel Studios (and the writers/directors involved in the projects) learn from those failures and do better in the future!

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

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Everything with Fisk, Eleanor, Maya and Kate was excellent, and so was Clint returning to his family, but man I felt everything else dropped the ball for me. It reminded me so much of FATWS's ending too. The series sets up multiple interesting things and goes in more complex narratives than the movies, only to end up with a formulaic ending that doesn't feel like the episodes that came before it.

Sure the series has humor but the ending overdid it so much. The LARPers were so annoying, and them getting to defeat thugs felt so cliche and dumb, I actually would have loved a subversion right after Clint says they'd die ending up with the LARPERs all being beaten. Similarly Kate and that thug or Kate and Yelena just cracking jokes in the middle of the action and thus stopping it all, as if they aren't in the middle of something that their lives or the lives of others depend on. And just an army of thugs coming in, Clint, Kate and Jacques mostly just killing them too as if one of the core tenets was Clint abandoning his murderous past behind him. It felt like repeating the same gripes me and a lot of people seemed to have with FATWS and other MCU stuff, which to me was weird because the series obviously has humor but it felt out of place in this episode except for Clint's dry hoje at the LARPER's expense to me.

And how Clint and Yelena reconciled likewise felt so rushed after a very interesting setup. Felt a lot like USAgent's change of heart at the ending of FATWS as well. It feels like both things could have been an entire episode by themselves but instead for some reason it's all juggled in in the same narrative. I liked Clint's confession to Yelena but it felt so rushed and I didn't buy her reaction because we barely explored both her and Clint together. How great would it be for Clint to open up about how he "saved" Nat like she always considered he did ar Budapest and say she did what she did because she felt like it was her turn to do it, obviously not meaning Yelena should thank him, but that would approach them so much more, Yelena would understand Nat leaving for a better life after all they went through. Similarly I felt the episode barely devolved time for Kate and Eleanor to have a discussion with each other, and stuff wasn't made so clear to me at the end

A final, gigantic battle against an army of thugs also felt so bland as well for me. If the choreography had at least done it to me like the excellent car chase scene, but it didn't

Again, ev

And this is if there was no pandemic and they released in China.

Seeing Karli get shot and killed must be top 10 satisfaying scenes for me ever😍

So, I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere, so I figured I would just articulate this thought. At the end of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Sharon Carter is revealed to be the Power Broker. When she is reinstated to the CIA she is seen speaking with someone on the phone about all the potential that comes with their new position.

Now, I’ve been wondering who she was talking to since I first saw that finale and now I’m wondering if maybe, just maybe, it is Wilson Fisk.

In Hawkeye Fisk is NOTICEABLY stronger. In a recent interview Vincent very much insinuated that this is the same version of Fisk from the Netflix shows. Now, in those shows he was strong, but not rio a car door off its hinges strong. But what COULD make him that strong all while allowing him to maintain his normal body shape? The “perfected” super soldier serum that Sharon was having made and giving to the flag smashers.

Obviously I don’t know the how and the why of what Sharon and Fisk’s relationship would be, but I thought I was an interesting idea worth discussing. Also, Sharon had a lot of pretty famous artwork in her place. That doesn’t confirm anything, but a fun detail of this turns out to have any truth behind it.

Lots of people didn't like TFATWS as much as the other MCU stuff.

I do have a rough idea on how to fix the Flag Smashers, I tried to show more of them helping the refugees to show their cause and also made them less evil at least until John Walker kills one of them, so no bombing a building with people inside.

I don't really know what to do with Sharon Carter's twist reveal. Not that I think it's bad but it was somehow predicted from episode 3 and when the actual reveal happened, it didn't have much of an effect

You can also suggest how to change other stuff from the show

Bucky and Sarah

OR

Sam and Sharon

Looking to finish up my Marvel CMF set. Located in the US.

EDIT: Trading T'Challa and Captain Carter for Zombie Cap and Falcon. Only have Spider Supreme, looking for Winter Soldier now.

FINAL WARNING - MILD NWH SPOILERS BUT WHAT I’M MENTIONING WAS IN TRAILERS I THINK

So it struck me as really strange that they were rebuilding the Statue of Liberty with a Captain America shield in NWH. And I do mean fully rebuilding, at least to some extent, because it wasn’t just a shield being added - the entire statue was the colour of fresh copper, rather than the green colour of copper oxide.

So why was this being done? It almost felt like something that would happen if it had been destroyed, or damaged. But nothing happened to the statue in recent Marvel movies/series.

So it got me thinking about which recent MCU entries it would make sense to have been damaged during, and the obvious answer was FATWS due to the shield being used.

I don’t have much evidence for this, in fact, there may be more that I missed, but I have a feeling this is the case. In the original script of FATWS, the statue may have been attacked by the Flagsmashers in the finale.

As you may be aware, there is a lot of speculation (and I believe some level of confirmation) that the script of FATWS was changed significantly during filming, which is primarily believed to be a result of the pandemic. This is believed to be a reason for some weird story beats in the show.

Now, the main plotline that was supposedly removed from FATWS was related to a diseaseof some sort. I’m not sure how this would impact the Statue of Liberty, but here is why I think it would make sense to have happened.

1. The FATWS finale takes place in New York, so the location is the same in the version we got.

2. The Flagsmashers are against the idea of nations and borders, so it would make sense to attack a landmark that sort of represents America.

3. Sam Wilson saves the day after becoming Captain America, so it would make some sense to honour him, as well as Steve Rogers’ memory, by repairing the statue with a new shield.

So why would this remnant of a scrapped finale have made its way into NWH? I think that’s pretty simple. WARNING. ARGUABLY MORE SIGNIFICANT SPOILERS AHEAD.

Marvel projects are planned in accordance with one another. The plan to have the statue destroyed in FATWS may have been made concurrently with the plan to have the new statue feature significantly in NWH. Given the significance of the shield specifically, it was not possible to remove it from the script of NWH after it was scrapped from FATWS.

So that’s just the little theory I came up with to explain the somewhat unexplained feat

I haven’t seen Falcon and the Winter soldier, Loki, what if, Hawkeye, Shang Chi, eternals, venom, and no way home. How much does it matter what order I watch them in?

Okay so TFatWS is not a well written show.

From mixed political messages, sloppy antagonists, and protagonists who don’t always act like protagonists and have been otherwise character assassinated, the show was a mess.

One of the biggest issues was the show’s main antagonist group, the Flag Smashers

One scene that stands out to me is the scene where Lemar is killed.

When Lemar is murdered by Karli, everyone, including Karli and the other Flag Smashers freeze. Firstly, why would they freeze? Maybe John and Sam and maybe even Bucky would, but why would the Flag Smahsers? The same ones who just bombed a building with innocent people inside? The same ones who multiple times tried to kill John, Sam, and Bucky in even just that same fight?

The Flag Smashers are already poorly done in that they don’t have a clearly defined end goal. But they’re also incredibly inconsistent. For the first part of the show, we see them acting as almost Robin Hood type people. That would have already been a compelling idea and would prove an interesting plot as they are morally grey. Then we see them bomb a building, murdering the people inside. Once this happened, any possibly sympathy I had for the Flag Smashers went out the window as they officially became terrorists.

Now, imagine this: the Flag Smashers actually act noble and remove the people from the building before blowing it up. They’ve still amped things up but without destroying any sense of morality. Then the fight with John, Lemar, Sam, and Bucky. Still getting used to her own strength, Karli accidentally kills Lemar. This is the first time the Flag Smashers, especially Karli, have killed anyone. Now it makes sense for them all to freeze. Karli is shocked at what she did and flees.

Moving on to the finale, well, that whole thing is a mess as the Flag Smashers become even more extreme versions of terrorists. Also, there isn’t a clear end goal for them other than to prevent the signing of a new legislation. For me to fix this part, I’d need them to have a clear goal. Maybe Karli and the Flag Smasher are so desperate to not be kicked to the streets again that they are just acting on the now and wanting to prevent the signing and then worry about what’s happening next. The problem with this is, that doesn’t make for an exciting finale. So perhaps, you could have a group of people from the Flag Smashers defect and go for a more extreme route. They’re the ones who try to attack the conference and do the hostage situat

Any new observations or perspectives gleaned this time? Personally, I think rewatching it now has allowed me to appreciate it more. It is a DAMN GOOD series. I think when it was first released, it was at MAXIMUM hype where everyone was expecting the show to address EVERYTHING post-snap and everyone and their mother had a YouTube video dissecting every detail. I’m enjoying it so much more this time around.

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier S01E05 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

#Insight will be on for the next 24 hours! We will also be removing any threads posted within these 24 hours to prevent unmarked spoilers to go up onto the sub

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

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For more in-depth discussion about Marvel shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

#Insight will be on for the next 24 hours! We will also be removing any threads posted within these 24 hours to prevent unmarked spoilers to go up onto the sub

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for this episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

For more in-depth discussion about Marvel shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

Any new observations or perspectives gleaned this time? Personally, I think rewatching it now has allowed me to appreciate it more. It is a DAMN GOOD series. I think when it was first released, it was at MAXIMUM hype where everyone was expecting the show to address EVERYTHING post-snap and everyone and their mother had a YouTube video dissecting every detail. I’m enjoying it so much more this time around.

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

Insight will be on for the next 24 hours!

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for the episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

^(For more in-depth discussion about Marvel shows on Disney+, visit) ^(r/MarvelStudiosPlus)