Ziggy Sobotka Puns

I see a lot of hate for Ziggy Sobotka get thrown around, and the complaints I see about him usually come from people who fail to see how he fits into the larger thematic picture of season 2 and the series as a whole.

Ziggy represents this piece of our society that we hollowed out. He was born into a blue collar union family. He spent his entire life being taught how the union and the work would give him a good life, just like it did for his father and his uncle and his grandfather. Then, as he came into adulthood, the economy left him and them completely behind. We do not have a place for Ziggy in modern American capitalism. We barely have a place for Frank; he was hanging on by his fingernails. The only union guy we saw with a decent life that didn’t involve being drunk at 6am and praying a ship would come in was Nick’s dad, who was retired.

Ziggy had grown up seeing people respect his father and his uncle and the union, but when he finally joined, the work and the respect and the money was gone. The promise of his good life was broken. America failed Ziggy, so Ziggy didn’t know what to do. He saw the “players” making money and getting respect from selling drugs, so he tried it out. But he wasn’t built for that world; he was built for a world that no longer exists. And that despair of finding out he had no path to success led to his acting out in increasingly bizarre and futile ways; whipping his dick out, the flamboyant coat, lighting a $100 on fire, the duck, throwing fistfuls of cash out the car window, etc.—his life was built on a lie (join the union, show up every day, support your brothers, you’ll have a good life), so all he could try to do was have a good time. If all he could ever be was a joke, why not be the one laughing?

Of course, this culminates in Ziggy's final act of tragic futility in the electronics store where he murders Glekas for repeatedly disrespecting and dismissing him, and the young stock boy for simply being there. The end of Ziggy's story is not the end of his life, but rather him finally finding someplace in our society that will allow him in: prison.

One of the most crucial themes of The Wire (and ESPECIALLY season 2) is that our capitalist economy is built to leave huge segments of the population out, and those people with no other recourse turn to crime. Schools, politics, media, and law enforcement all contribute to a society that functions well for the wealthy and middle-class whites out in the co

I've just got to 2x10 on my rewatch. Watching S2 a second time around, it just so clear that Ziggy is mentally ill. I couldn't say what condition he's suffering with exactly, but I definitely feel like he's not fully in control of his actions and his shooting of Double G plays out like a psychotic break. It's not till Ziggy sits in the car afterwards that he comes back to reality and is immediately devastated by what he's done.

Do fans recognize this about Ziggy? If not on their first viewing then on rewatches? I find it sad that Ziggy is so hated by viewers for being "annoying" and a fuck up. But that's just what makes his character so much more authentic for me - mentally ill people are often branded as annoying and that's why it's all the more important that people realize they are unstable and need help. But within the story, the other Wire characters don't get it either. There are some casual remarks about Ziggy being unwell ("that boy ain't right"), but nobody really sees the red flags before it's too late. In fact they make matters worse by bullying and degrading Ziggy.

There's also so many hints of Ziggy having tech smarts that aren't valued in the world he comes from. Ziggy himself can't make the best of his own talents, because his 'condition' (whatever it is) gets in the way. If Ziggy were middle class, he'd probably have been diagnosed and medicated as a teenager. Then given some computer job where he doesn't have to try to fit in with macho coworkers who he can't compete with. Like so many characters on the Wire, there are circumstances where Ziggy could have lived a good life.

How do fans feel about Ziggy so many years on? Is there more understanding and even sympathy for his character these days with increasing awareness of mental health issues?

Over the years one thing I've read in various reviews and blog posts and on message boards is how sorry EVERYONE supposedly feels for Ziggy.

Are you KIDDING me?

Ziggy is a STUPID fuckup who thinks he is MUCH smarter than EVERYONE else around him and that he is the only one who "knows what the game is about."

Everyone in his circle of family and friends and coworkers ENDLESSLY enable and put up with his shit (to a point.).

When things inevitably go sideways it's NEVER his fault and he whines until someone, usually a family member has to come sprinting in and make it all better.

He NEVER learns ANYTHING from ANY of his fuckups.

But after all of his fuckups, after he's walked into the store and shot multiple people and gotten the shit kicked out of him in lockup, I'm supposed to take PITY on him because he has ONE honest talk with someone who it turns out isn't even his father and he's gonna spend of the rest of his life getting buttfucked in prison?

Good.

He's getting off easy he should have been shot by Cheese, who was his own special form of shithead.

I noticed on the Wikipedia page for Ziggy that he was based on an actual Baltimore stevedore. In an online interview David Simon stated that Ziggy is loosely based on a real stevedore named Pinkie Bannion whose antics have become a local legend around the docks. According to Simon, Bannion "used to take his duck to the bar and repeatedly expose 'pretty boy' and all else. As they said in Bawlmer about Pinkie: 'That boy ain't right.'" Thought that was worth sharing.

I'm two episodes in and he's already my favorite character in the series.

Here are some of my favorite:

Herc as Perry Annunziata but in a more expanded role and is respected more as muscle within the Soprano crew.

Vito Spatafore as William Rawls or detective Jay Landsman. I think he’d do well in either role. I was here, it was a joke!

Cedric Daniels as Agent Harris. Both Daniels and Harris are well meaning law enforcement officers that aren’t afraid to bend the rules as long as they believe it’s doing something good to society. Lance Reddick is a good actor and I think his and JG’s chemistry would be strong; I could see Daniels being very skeptical and even straight up disliking Tony at first but eventually have some level of respect for him by the end of the series. Daniels would also do good as Agent Cubitoso.

Christopher Moltisanti as Mr. Prezbo. Moltisanti would be belittled both by the police department and the students of Baltimore public schools. Imagine Namond Brice goes up to Chrissy and says “Wait….. Mr. M….. FUCK YOU!” and Chris will respond with “NO FUCK YOU YOU LITTLE PRICK!”. I just think it would be overall hilarious seeing Chris as a teacher interacting with young students.

Jimmy McNulty as Tony Blundetto. Both are intelligent yet broken characters. I do think McNulty would do better at getting away with some of the crimes and murders that Tony B had committed. The murder of Billy Leotardo (just a kid!) and Joey Peeps were both poorly executed… McNulty would’ve been more tactical, probably bringing the bodies to the Pine Barrens or going on a boat and dumping it in the Atlantic Ocean. I also think that McNulty would last another season before getting whacked.

Phil Leotardo as Frank Sobotka, Little Carmine as Nick Sobotka, and Jackie Aprile Jr. as Ziggy. The first two characters have similar fates as both Leotardo and Frank Sobotka get murdered in the end of a season. Both Little Carmine and Nick S. end up alive but not before dealing with turmoil that could’ve possibly fucked them over. Jackie Junya was in over his head in robbing the card game, similarly to how Ziggy made the poor decision in killing Glekas.

I don’t know why many fans don’t like season 2, I really enjoyed it, it’s my third time through the show, and I think Frank is a great character, fighting for his union brothers and trying to help the people around him, what’s your take on him?

You're Frank Sobotka, secretary of the stevedores union. You're in deep with some Greek international criminals, helping them smuggle shit in America post 9/11. Your union is dying so you think you have no choice.

Why would you then piss off a Major in the Baltimore PD ? Someone who's known for holding grudges and who doesn't let anything go? Why would you want him get too interested in your shit over a window you don't even need?

As soon as Valchek started stopping Frank's people for DWI checkpoints at 8 in the morning Frank should have backed off. Instead he pissed off Valchek even more by stealing the surveillance van. He had to know Valchek would have hit back and tried to find any dirt on Frank.

Had Frank given the window back he could have easily went on with his jobs for the Greek for years! He could even have gotten the canal dredged. Instead he brought unnecessary attention to himself.

• Dukie’s arc is often held up to be the most upsetting in the show, but it isn’t *that* sad – it’s the viewer who gets upset by what happens to Dukie, not Dukie. It’s a tragic waste of talent for a genuinely nice kid, sure – but Dukie will go on to live the life of an addict, and actually has a community around him (not the community you would want him to get into, but it’s still a community of sorts). So pull yourself together about Dukie. Compared to Dukie, I think all of these characters have much more tragic arcs: Frank and Ziggy Sobotka, Wallace, Bodie, Randy, little Kev… maybe even Michael. But you know who I think has an especially sad arc on later viewings…?
• …Slim Charles is never mentioned when considering saddest character stories. On repeated viewings, I really find him to be a tragically joyless character, trapped in the game. When Omar goes to get info on Marlo/what happened to Joe – the way Slim says to Omar “just finish it” breaks my heart every time. He is shown throughout to be pragmatic, intelligent and wise (as well as fierce) – you get the impression that he could have been successful doing any number of things (anything he damn please?), but instead he’s trapped in a brutal life of murder and crime – and unlike others in the game, he takes no interest or joy in climbing the ladder or wearing the crown. I don’t think you ever see him smile, or reference any kind of personal relationship.
• Namond. I’m elaborating here on someone’s comment that I saw a while back about De’Londa, but… about Namond… as messed up as this seems, of the four kids that we follow, he is almost certainly the one who comes from the most stable family (even if his father is drug gang muscle and his mother is the spawn of Satan). It’s apparent to me that this is most likely the primary factor that means he ends up being too soft for the game… and manages to get out – compared to any of the other kids, he is the only one that actually had two parents who care for him (even if their initial instinct is to want him to succeed in the drug trade). This is also likely to contribute to him being picked by Bunny (not from a broken family)… the game really is rigged.
• I’m convinced Lester is skimming money from somewhere* – he then launders the money by inflating cash purchase prices for the doll house furniture that he makes throughout the series, funding his fancy apartment and trophy girlfriend. True natural poh-lice.

*I don’t actually believe this. I did a po

The (other) MCU has Idris Elba (Stringer, in Thor etc), Michael B Jordan (Wallace, in Black Panther), Clarke Peters (Cool Lester Smooth, in Jessica Jones), Wood Harris (Avon, in Ant Man) and Sonja Sohn, Michael Kostroff, Reg E Cathey and Method Man (Kima, Levy, Norman Wilson, and Cheese, in Luke Cage) and Domenick Lombardozzi (Herc, in Daredevil).

It's Always Sunny has Lance Reddick (Daniels) and Chad L Coleman (Cutty).

The Fallout series has John Doman (Caesar in New Vegas) and Gregory L Williams (Lucas Simms in Fallout 3).

McNulty's kids are seen playing Halo a few times, and Jamie Hector (Marlo) voices Emile in Halo: Reach, and Pablo Schreiber (Nicky Sobotka) is voicing the MC in the upcoming Halo series.

Lance Reddick and Clarke Peters both appear in the first John Wick film also, as Charon and Harry respectively.

Treme is kinda cheating being another series produced by David Simon, but it features Clarke Peters, Jim True-Frost (Prez), Anwan Glover (Slim Charles), Wendell Pierce (Bunk) and James Ransome (Ziggy).

Glover and Michael K Williams (Omar) both appear in 12 Years A Slave.

Oz has J.D Williams (Bodie), Frankie Faison (Burrell), Seth Gilliam (Carver), and Lance Reddick, Reg E Cathey, John Doman, Method Man again.

Seth Gilliam and Lawrence Gilliard Jr (D'Angelo) both appear in The Walking Dead.

Domenick Lombardozzi, Delaney Williams (Jay Landsman) and Wendell Pierce appear in Ray Donovan.

Burn Notice has Method, Sonja, John Doman, James Ransome, and Robert Wisdom (Bunny).

Chapelle's Show has Isiah Whitlock Jr (Clay Davis) and Donnell Rawlings (Day-Day).

That's as much as I can be bothered to look up right now. I've missed off Law and Order as it seems every actor and their mothers has appeared in that. If there's anything important I've missed drop it in the comments.

What I’ve never quite understood, and I’ve watched the series 3 times, is how do the dockworkers and Sobotka specifically pull off the scam of stealing cargo. Sure, they “make the cans disappear” in the computer. But isn’t all this stuff recorded and itemized, leaving a paper trail? I suppose if the Greeks are sending girls or chemicals from a bullshit fake company from overseas, they can say they sent Barbie Dolls or Shower Door Hangers or anything really, if anyone looked at the records (less effective if anybody opened the cans), and they’d be fine..... but what about when the dockworkers just stole a can full of someone else’s goods? Say, like specifically, when Ziggy just stole some Mercedes cars? Wouldn’t whatever company sent them then be investigating where those (very valuable) items were “disappeared“? And wouldn’t the answer always end up being “that cargo got to the Baltimore port, and then it was not in the Baltimore port anymore”? Thus, wouldn’t an investigation always lead back to the Baltimore port, and by extension Frank Sobotka and Horseface and Ziggy and Nick? What am I missing? Or did they not really explain this? Thanks in advance to anyone who can explain this to me. And obligatory RIP Michael K Williams

I read the following from All The Pieces Matter by Jonathan Abrams. pg 133

James "P.J." Ransome (Chester "Ziggy" Sobotka): The first season, you follow these black drug dealers around the streets of Baltimore and you go, "Oh my God, they're trying to function as a business. Their capitalism is the same way everything else is." Then you shift focus to the white working class, right? What you really take away from that is those people are just as trapped in the machine of capitalism as the drug dealers are.

People go like, "The White Season." It's always weird to me because it's like, no. They're just, incrementally a little bit more financially well off than the drug dealers. So, to me, the takeaway from that is people go, "Season Two is always the worst." The reason why I think people think that is because it's too much to reconcile the fact of whites in the same terms of social mobility as a poor black person. They hate to admit it to themselves. It's too much to reconcile the fact that white people are enslaved to their own social class as much as poor black people. They would have to give up the delusion that they can be wealthy one day, working honestly within the contexts of the system.

Think about where we are as a country today. People make these great hyperbolic comparisons to Trump and Adolf Hitler, and it's really wrong. Trump has benefited completely from a system of debt, right? Borrowing against your preceived value. What he's really tapping into is exactly what I'm talking about: is the delusion that you think because you are a certain sort of skin color that you are afforded more social mobility than other races or cultures. And that's simply not true. A politician will that in terms of going, "See, the problem isn't me. It's these other people working right next to me." But, if they were to compare their pay stubs, they'd see that they had more in common with that person than they would hope for.

All the pieces matter.

I don't want to step on anybody's toes here, but the amount of non-dad jokes here in this subreddit really annoys me. First of all, dad jokes CAN be NSFW, it clearly says so in the sub rules. Secondly, it doesn't automatically make it a dad joke if it's from a conversation between you and your child. Most importantly, the jokes that your CHILDREN tell YOU are not dad jokes. The point of a dad joke is that it's so cheesy only a dad who's trying to be funny would make such a joke. That's it. They are stupid plays on words, lame puns and so on. There has to be a clever pun or wordplay for it to be considered a dad joke.

Again, to all the fellow dads, I apologise if I'm sounding too harsh. But I just needed to get it off my chest.

This is not a complete list, but it's what made me think of this post:

. . .

• Within the city, very few even knew about Hamsterdam, despite working miles from each location. The bosses were on top of the smallest detail, yet were unable to recognize what Bunny did.

• Herc and Carver don't know Nicholas Sobotka turned himself in.

• The Major Case Unit doesn't know that double G was murdered and that Ziggy was the murderer.

• The MCU doesn't know that Avon was released from prison, nor do they know that D'Angelo was dead.

• Detective Sydnor doesn't know about season 2.

• The murder of Prop Joe is dropped from the Baltimore Sun without recognition.

• The Council President doesn't know about a story involving her until she reads it in the newspaper.

....

And many more...

These events were not necessarily purposeful - they were simply true accounts of knowledge between people and institutions.

One of the flakes of brilliance that the Wire leaves us is the fact that in the real world, we don't truly know what's going on. Even if we are aware of the general situation and can grasp the potential proximity of it all; we may still be unaware until it's too late.

Just watched Bad Dreams, and the the scene with Frank visiting Ziggy in jail was some great acting. Frank says “you’re a Sobotka”, and Ziggy says “fucked is what I am”. What a scene. So many good ones in this season.

hey friends I just started on The Wire recently after having heard so much about it (back when lockdown first happened I was trying to decide to start on The Sopranos or Wire, and went with Sopranos but now I'm here enjoying The Wire).

This post is mostly just a self-indulgent one where I list down the characters and moments I enjoyed (I only just finished S2, and due to real life commitments will take a while before starting on S3)

Here I go:

S1

Season 1 was a great primer and I thoroughly enjoyed the moral ambiguity of D'Angelo Barksdale's character.

Love the growth of Pryzbylewski (him discovering his flair and passion was a joy to watch).

I felt really bad for Wallace and the way he had to go (getting taken out by the friends you grew up with has got to suck!).

I also love how Omar's pretty much a one-man army being more than a handful for Avon and his crew. He's incredibly street-smart, and I think despite his limited education, book-smart too. Possibly my favorite character (the way he argued against the lawyer of the Barksdale org in season 2 and how he rattled him was impressive and I watched the scene with glee)

Rawls is a prick, but he (along with Landsman) has his funny moments

Had no idea the Wee-Bey scene was where they got *THAT* meme. When I caught it I found myself having the exact same reaction as him! Also as an aquarist myself I gotta say the scene where he entrusted D to care for them (along with getting upset when the prison officer destroyed his makeshift tank) was wholesome

I despise Stringer Bell. Snake.

Burrell's a self-serving cnt throughout both seasons

We all need a boss like Daniels - firm yet fair

Herc reminds me of Breaking Bad's Hank: brash, the joker (and occasionally the joke), yet actually a wholesome guy

Freamon's cool, calm, and seemingly trusthworthy - would've liked him as a colleague

McNulty's annoying - great detective, but all-around unpleasant person imo. Don't hate him, but don't really like him either. Meh.

I really can't decide how I feel about Johnny Weeks/Bubs, though I guess drug addiction's always grim and affects your life choices

S2

Wondered whether the main cast will feature heavily, and was delighted to find out that was the case

God, the bureaucracy our protagonists had to deal with was maddening to watch, never mind actually deal with

Annoyed at Ziggy right off the bat, but could empathize with him by the end of it. (I want a duck for a pet).

I actually liked Frank Sobotka; h

Do your worst!

They were cooked in Greece.

I'm surprised it hasn't decade.

Two muffins are in an oven, one muffin looks at the other and says "is it just me, or is it hot in here?"

Then the other muffin says "AHH, TALKING MUFFIN!!!"

Don't you know a good pun is its own reword?

Ziggy is underrated as a character. I strongly disagree with anyone who sees him as "The JarJar Binks of The Wire". That's not to say he's likeable: I think he's like a Dolores Umbridge or Joffrey Baratheon type: insufferable, but beautifully insufferable. Here's a character analysis I did (FWIW, I just finished watching Season 2 for the first time).

The layers of Ziggy

1. The boss's son: Being the son of Frank Sobotka, Ziggy is in a very odd social position, which goes to explain a lot of his behavior and the way people treat him. As union royalty, he's conditioned to be able to push social boundaries, and is generally isolated from the honest feedback which is necessary to building a well-adjusted character. So, at least in the world of the Baltimore port, he's able to get away with ridiculous shit like whipping his dick out in the bar, starting fights with people he has no business fighting, and garnering the attention (and support, to an extent) of blue collar workers 30 years his senior. His situation is analogous to a boss of a company who gradually loses touch with the social norms of everyday people because his employees always laugh at his unfunny jokes and agree with everything he says.

2. A fish out of water: Where Ziggy's antics really become intolerable is in the world of organized crime. It creates this terrible dissonance, because here you have a kid who's basically incapable of understanding the norms of honor and social hierarchy, trying to participate in a world where obeying the norms of honor and social hierarchy can be a matter of life and death. That's what makes Ziggy's interactions with the drug dealers and Greek racketeers so insanely uncomfortable: it makes for these bull-in-a-china-shop situations, where we the viewers realize the importance of always saying exactly the right thing, and at the same time realize that Ziggy will almost always say or do something completely inappropriate.

3. The sad clown: For understandable reasons, Ziggy doesn't get any respect. But he's got enough going for him that he can't let go of his social ambitions. On the one hand, he's a skinny, young, insecure guy, who isn't savvy enough to make it on the streets, isn't authentic enough to make it as one of the blue collar guys, isn't intimidating enough to organize a ring of heroin dealers, and isn't serious enough to deal with the Greeks. On the other hand, he's smart, he's Frank Sobotkas son, he's occasionally successful in his crim

For context I'm a Refuse Driver (Garbage man) & today I was on food waste. After I'd tipped I was checking the wagon for any defects when I spotted a lone pea balanced on the lifts.

I said "hey look, an escaPEA"

No one near me but it didn't half make me laugh for a good hour or so!

Edit: I can't believe how much this has blown up. Thank you everyone I've had a blast reading through the replies 😂

It really does, I swear!

Alot of great jokes get posted here! However just because you have a joke, doesn't mean it's a dad joke.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT NSFW, THIS IS ABOUT LONG JOKES, BLONDE JOKES, SEXUAL JOKES, KNOCK KNOCK JOKES, POLITICAL JOKES, ETC BEING POSTED IN A DAD JOKE SUB

Try telling these sexual jokes that get posted here, to your kid and see how your spouse likes it.. if that goes well, Try telling one of your friends kid about your sex life being like Coca cola, first it was normal, than light and now zero , and see if the parents are OK with you telling their kid the "dad joke"

I'm not even referencing the NSFW, I'm saying Dad jokes are corny, and sometimes painful, not sexual

So check out r/jokes for all types of jokes

r/unclejokes for dirty jokes

r/3amjokes for real weird and alot of OC

r/cleandadjokes If your really sick of seeing not dad jokes in r/dadjokes

Punchline !

Edit: this is not a post about NSFW , This is about jokes, knock knock jokes, blonde jokes, political jokes etc being posted in a dad joke sub

Because she wanted to see the task manager.

But that’s comparing apples to oranges

And boy are my arms legs.

Ziggy is a controversial character in this sub. Some seem to hate him more than others like him, and I’ve never gotten that. The rewatch I’m on right now has cracked the code of Ziggy as a character, as I think I realize how David Simon wanted him portrayed. We the viewer look at Ziggy the same the other Dock worker, like Nat and Maui, see him. He is a dunce, a clown, an annoyance, and is constantly doing something that he should not be doing, but those traits are not not who he is. Ziggy lays it out in this scene, he’s sad and remorseful, of a life he’ll never get to live, but is somewhat glad that the life he had before is no more, as he was getting tired of the jokes, tired of the mistreatment, and just flat out tired. Ziggy is just a sad kid, who’s father wasn’t always around when he was younger, and therefore wanted to get attention any way he could, which is why he became someone who goofs off (buying that duck, dick pictures in bar, etc.). But as he got older he realized he just wanted to make his dad proud, and joined up with him at the docks so that he could be a part of his life and maintain some sense of familiarity with his father as they both got older. Ziggy seemed always at the brink of doing something like he did Glekas, but never found someone who pushed back as hard or with such intention of truly putting him down, which is why when Glekas did it to him that day he did it. The true failure of the Ziggy Sobotka character, for me, is that we don’t get to see him again, as id be interested to see how he’s doing in the final montage in the series finale, but I think that’s the point. Ziggy got swallowed up by the system, and that was that. You just don’t exist anymore after that, and for some reason or another, I think that’s what he wanted.

TL;DR: Ziggy is a really well written character with a lot of depth that isn’t there at first glance.

Heard they've been doing some shady business.

but then I remembered it was ground this morning.

Edit: Thank you guys for the awards, they're much nicer than the cardboard sleeve I've been using and reassures me that my jokes aren't stale

Edit 2: I have already been made aware that Men In Black 3 has told a version of this joke before. If the joke is not new to you, please enjoy any of the single origin puns in the comments

BamBOO!

They’re on standbi