It occurs to me that, given the events in The Truth, it's very likely that Vetinari gave Ron some sort of reward for protecting Wuffles. One can only imagine what it might have been.
The more books I read, the more I appreciate Lord Vetinari and the way that Sir Terry developed him as a character.
Every book he's in, you learn a little more: some likable, some spooky, and some funny.
Just wanted to have a sound-off for the Patrician and his magnetic personality.
Would love to see any costumes/fan art, whatever, about this lovable creeper.
For reference, I've read:
- The Tiffany Aching books (except Shepherd's Crown)
- Going Postal
- Making Money
- Raising Steam <— Particularly loved him in this book.
- Guards, Guards!
I don’t know if someone already created this theory or if it’s just blatantly obvious to everyone and so doesn’t need to be pointed out.
The name Vetinari is a play on the word “veterinary” so the theory is thus: Vetinari is a vet doing a constant stream of check ups on Ankh-Morpork, with the entire city being a large pet that he now looks after, like the Patricians before him. The fact that he is so good with handling the city (like Vimes and the Guilds) links in with the theory because you have to understand how all the parts work and how changing one thing can fix or put in motion a way of helping the city’s future.
In relation to other cities, Vetinari is also watching them to make sure the city can’t get hurt and looks for other cities or groups to help “protect” it or feed it
I've only read a few Discworld books so far, so I haven't seen much of Lord Vetinari yet. There are a couple lines in Making Money that make me wonder just how deep his influence runs. It seems a little convenient that Cosmo's obsession with Vetinari coincides with the events of Making Money (or at least ends up >!worsening and becoming his downfall at just the right time).!<
In the beginning of the book, Moist notices Cosmo in the background of a newspaper picture (featuring Lord Vetinari) looking "hypnotized."
Later, after Moist has >!broken the stamp forger out of jail!<, he wonders whether trying to think like Vetinari lets him into Moist's own mind. The wording is a little ambiguous, but it sounds like he's wondering whether Vetinari can read or manipulate thoughts when the thinker is trying to think like Vetinari.
By the end of the book, Cosmo is >!in a ward full of Vetinari pretenders!<, so this must happen fairly often.
Vetinari does mention all the items and people he's noticed going missing that point to Cosmo's activity, so he wouldn't necessarily need to be more involved than that, but...
Did Lord Vetinari somehow >!cause or worsen Cosmo's obsession as part of his plan to shake up the banking system!<?
Disclaimer: I'm relatively new to Discworld, and I know that other people have theorized about this before. However, I haven't been able to find any actual compilations of evidence and arguments for it, which I've put together here.
For those who don't know, Lord Vetinari is the patrician of Ankh Morpork, the despotic dictator who rules with brutal efficiency beloved and beneficent ruler who protects the city. He's described as "The kind of man who made Machiavelli look incapable of running a whelk cart", ruling the city incredibly well, and managing to keep it not just stable, but growing. It's often difficult to pin down his though processes, partly because Pratchett often ignored continuity in favor of a good story, and partly because Vetinari is so insanely paranoid that he's shown to even alter his behavior at all times, even in private to throw off enemies. However, there's enough evidence such as a number of peculiar habits, and details from his past, which together show that Lord Vetinari is a vampire.
Major points of evidence:
- Discworld vampires can live without blood, transferring their desire for it to something else. For Maledicta, it was coffee; For Otto Von Chriek, it was his love of light and photography. Notably, with Otto (as well as possibly Margolotta), their new desire could be working on a passion or goal, not just physical food or drink. Vetinari is repeatedly shown to do almost nothing else with his life than govern, and notably had no real vices, something that confused and frightened many nobles (Pratchett wrote that the craziest thing he did was play a game of chess once a week). Vetinari transferred his thirst for blood into running Ankh Morpork (which also explains why he could be more dedicated and work more hours than even Sam Vimes)
- Vetinari's close friend and mentor, the Lady Marglotta, was a well known vampire. He spent a good deal of time with her when he was younger, both of them furthering the other's knowledge and abilities. Discworld vampires can create new vampires through biting, so at that point, or in later years, she could easily have transformed him.
- When Mr. Tulip and Mr. Pin kidnapped Vetinari, they mentioned that he'd fought more ferociously than they expected for a man of his age, and likely could have beaten them if he weren't so surprised by seeing his lookalike. He was trained as an assassin, but as Sam Vimes has noted, most assassins are absolute shit in a real
So in The blink of the screen there's the short : Doctors Notes which contains the following description of an affliction.
(Isolated the important bit, copied it for use as an example from the paperback version by Corgi, no infringement on copyright or whatnot intended)
ANNOIA OR PARANOIA INVERSA.
The belief that you are out to get everyone.
This is extremely rare amongst people who are not Dark lords or similar since those that are by profession indeed 'out to get everyone' do not count.
However Mrs Everita Pewter, of Dolly Sisters, did visited her doctor complaining that she was oppressing people, spying on them, reading their mail, picking up their thoughts via strange waves and so on.
After extensive tests at Unseen University's Department of Invasive Medicine, it had been found that Mrs Pewter was in fact born as one of Them but had never learned to use her powers.
The Them is the secret, unknown but certainly suspected organisation of people who's job it is to interfere with everybody else, ruin their lives, and, in short, mess up the world and then go home laughing.
She sought advice on declaring herself as one of Them, but once it was explained to her that doing so would involve wearing hooded black robes, conducting secret meetings in vast underground caverns, and manipulating the destiny of millions on a twenty-four-hour basis, possible while fondling a fluffy white cat, she realised this would mean missing bridge-club on wednesdays; and since in any case cats gave Mrs Pewter hay fever, she opted instead for a decoction of willow bark for whenever the voices in her head got too bad.
Now here's the thing, we know his Lordship to be a cunning devil and he's fully aware of AM's position on the disc, he seems to enjoy meddling in foreign politics E.g. Dwarfs/ Troll relations in Überwald for instance even though he'll always state it's in AM's best interest to have stable neighbours.
And we have no idea what he does for fun outside of solving crosswords in the newspaper.
So what if he when everyone including drummknot has went home or it's equivelant on the disc, does he then go to Wuffles's grave and on the way back he's laughing in a most horrible fashion ?
Sure this is in fact a DW version of a Conspiracy Theory however in stark contrast to those you might find on the internet, this is just for a laugh if that wasn't obvious.
Havelock Vetirnari is the second best at everything. He is the Democraticly elected Tyrant of the city of Ankh-Morpork. One man, one vote. (He is the man, he gets the vote.)
Lord Vetinari employs the best people, he has his universe's equivalent of Leonardo de Vinci known as Leonard de Quirm as his chief engineer. He has his universe's equivalent of King Arthur as the captain of the city watch. He employs trolls, dwarfs, Kings, heros, werewolves, vampires, gnomes, wizards (and Wizzards) Assassin, clowns, thieves, beggars, "Seamstresses", spies, and a Nobby Nobbs.
THE BEST OF THE BEST.
In a room full of the best and brightest Lord Vetinari wouldn't be invited but he'd be there anyway.
Lord Havelock Vetirnari was trained as an Assassin. He would have been the second best the school had ever seen. But he failed one class. He never showed up for his Concealment/Deception exam.
Second best. It doesn't sound that impressive. And it isn't. The impressive bit is the "everything" part.
In a room full of the best you have the smartest man, you have the fasted man, you have the quickest man, the most inventive man, the toughest man, ect. But they are all different people. Havelock Vetirnari is the second best at everything
(I'm sad that the books are over, but the story is never really done. What we create in our heads is just as real as anything Sir Terry Pratchett wrote. I have read every Discworld book at least 2 time, some many, many more. I have a head full of interpretations and perceptions of the characters. I shared one of Susan Sto Helit a few months ago and was told that I should share more. This is my perception of Havelock Vetinari.)
Is this worrying to anyone else? I’d say Vetinari is 15% Dracula at best and absolutely nothing like Elvis, the King of Rock and Roll. Am I missing something, or is it as dumb of a characterization as it sounds?
Article:
https://www.tor.com/2019/11/19/bbc-america-casts-anna-chancellor-as-lord-vetinari-plus-more-cast-updates-for-the-watch/
Everyone in Discworld is a little aware of how stories affect every day life.
One guy up against five or six guards is going to have a SEVERE advantage. One in a million chances are far more common than you might think. Witches have extremely durable hats because a farmhouse might land on their head if they are not careful.
But Lord Vetinari...I think he spent a little too long with some of the safer (and probably extremely dangerous) magic books and discovered far more about the nature of Discworld then the average genius.
I don't think Lord Vetinari knows the fourth wall exists, but I do believe he's caught a glimpse of it and is wondering just what the fuckety fuck it is.
Title. Some years ago, Moist conned his way into becoming Patrician of Ankh-Morpork. He proceeded to legalize and deputize the Thieves' Guild and the Assassins' Guild and cement his place as Lord Lipwig. Now, he's elected to take a skilled assassin who's been sentenced to hang and make him Postmaster.
Can Havelock Vetinari save the postal service? Will he go on to help introduce paper money? How will he react to the advent of steam locomotives?
On the other side of things, can Moist handle the office of Patrician as well as Vetinari did or even better, holding onto power and improving the city? Assume that he makes more or less the same major decisions as Vetinari did up until the start of Going Postal.
Ankh-morpork is clearly his city, but it must be assumed that he is unwilling to become a zombie or vampire to prolong his life, otherwise he'd have already done so. Would the guilds take over and squabble, would he create a democracy ( doubtful as he is the man and has the vote). He has no children, that we know of and hereditary power is too much like a monarchy for his taste.
>"'We use our slaves to create more slaves? But do we want to face the whole world in arms? For that is what we would do, at the finish. The best that we could hope for is that some of us would survive. The worst is that we would triumph. Triumph and rot. That is the lesson of history, Lord Downey. Are we not rich enough?"
> -- Making Money
I've just finished a re-read of Unseen Academicals, and as usual I've come away from it thinking how great a character The Patrician is and wanting more.
I've read every City Watch book except for The Fifth Elephant, and also
- Hogfather
- Thief Of Time
- Going Postal
- Making Money
- The Truth
- Mort
- Reaper Man
- Interesting Times
- Colour of Magic / The Light Fantastic
- Monstrous Regiment
- Equal Rites
- Wyrd Sisters
- Small Gods
So I'm looking for recommendations for either Discworld books that aren't in that list that feature him heavily, or maybe some other books/authors/movies that have a similar character? Someone with a similar wit, presence and acute awareness of what's going on around him. Doesn't necessarily need to be fantasy either!
More than anyone, Lord Vetinari knows that no one lives forever. Surely, after dedicating his life to insuring that Ankh Morpork runs as smoothly as possible, he would be concerned about having someone to carry on his work?
Both are manipulative and ruthless, but in different ways.
“I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.”
- Lord Vetinari Unseen Academicals by Terry Pratchett
Hello all,
I'm getting into reading Discworld, and I have a fascination with Lord Vetinari. Considering the reading order is non-linear, I wanted to know if there was any sort of known chronology surrounding him. It would be awesome to read about him in order.
Thanks in advance!
I really enjoy morally ambiguous characters that are both clever and play the long-game. For example: I really like Tywin Lannister (as well as Tyrion, of course) since he was able to be both evil and yet clever - he was able to acknowledge that the Starks were winning certain battles, that they were better suited to fighting in the winter, etc. (I dislike his hatred for Tyrion however - it's too simplistic and doesn't really fit the rest of his character).
The point is that I like moderately evil (or at least particularly ruthless) yet extremely clever characters that have a plan that encompasses decades or more. Lord Vetinari from Discworld is another favourite.
Any suggestions finding more stories with characters like this?
EDIT: I also really like (as mentioned by /u/teslablade) basically everyone in Dune. In addition, another example that I really liked was Melisandre from Kushiel's Dart.
