I feel like I'm living in a Kurt Vonnegut novel where everything gets turned around and starts to make NO SENSE. How did this happen?? The bastions of 'family values' now see Trump as some kind of prophet or even saint while dismissing the current seemingly-devout president as being in league with Satan?
Compared with other ardently evangelical, major Abrahamic sects I've studied over the last half century both directly and indirectly, modern day Adventism is clearly among those that seem to have achieved the most "respectability" among those looking on from outside.
Which would be remarkable to me considering the early days with EGW being little different from what is regularly seen in, for example, the Pentecostal and Southern Baptist... IF I didn't know a bit (but only a bit) about the efforts of several early and mid-20th-century SDA leaders' efforts to clean up the church's (public) act.
BUT... a Cultic Pyramid is still what it is, and one need only understand the dynamics of such things from conceptually informed, direct observation of what goes on at the middle and upper levels to see how the "good looking" cults get away with what they do and continue to grow. (Which is something I have been able to do in investigating several other Abrahamic sects.)
In my experience around the Adventist Church since 2003, it's as plain as the nose on my face that Groupthink, Social Proof, Implicit Social Contract & Unquestioning Acceptance of Authority are no less conditioned, in-doctrine-ated, instructed, imprinted, socialized, habituated, programmed and normalized into a neural network of cognition in the Adventist's brain than is the case with any Hasidic Jew, "holy roller" charismatic Pentecostal, theocratic Southern Baptist, militant Jesuit Catholic, Smithian/Youngian Mormon, Watchtower Society Jehovah's Witness, Shi-ite Islamic, or Russian Orthodox Christian.
But compared to a
... keep reading on reddit ➡I acknowledge God and that will not change. I went to a cult called the International Churches of Christ or ICOC for short. In there I was mentally and emotionally ruined and I did manipulation tactics to them. For a while I was angry at myself and God that I stayed there for so long. I did some praying and he answered so I can have the tools and knowledge to recognize places like that and be one guard if one becomes like that and to help others deal with their trauma in a Christ centered way. I have found so many leave cults and never deal with the fallout and just leave God when it is the cult that did the damage.
These cults twist Gods word and at their core are about gaining political power through social change in their direction, essentially it is about ego. To them it is about gaining as much influence as possible and that is why many are becoming what I call Evangelical Lite. This is where they appeal to younger audiences by having modern Jesus music, lights and hype messages to make it fun and interesting. Now there are normal churches that do this but just to keep with the times so they get a pass. The evangelical cults however do it merely to gain more members thus increasing their power and influence in society. They will love bomb you and say you are amazing and then when you are hooked they will do a 180 and you learn to go along with it. They will guilt you, shame you and see you as inferior if you question them or disagree even slightly.
Since leaving I have become closer with God. Not only that but I see him as far more multidimensional and having complex simplicity than I ever have before. It would be the equivalent of looking at an orange with my eyes and at the same time smelling and tasting it and experiencing its flavor without actually eating it. I have had more compassion, tolerance and understanding for others. I am seeing people how Jesus sees them and I have developed an exceedingly incredible amount of hope and love towards them. I am starting to see people for who they are within. Even where I am I acknowledge evolution and am more liberal than half of the church but not seen as a stranger. I am there for the other liberals, the science minds and the critical thinkers who may feel out of place and do not know how to share it with others too.
Because it's pretty obvious to anyone who can see though VDH's Swiss cheesy history and (il)logic how similar it is to Armstrong's clever but pseudo-intellectual nonsense. Millions (my mother included) were taken in by Armstrong before what the WWCoG was up to was revealed. And millions are being taken in -- and fleeced -- by Hanson because the world is full of people who think they understand what they really don't.
See a pair of grabs of the "plausible gobbledygook" right here and right here.
It just seems that for Low Church or Evangelical Episcopalians something about High Church practices offends them. The Anglo-Catholic seem like they don't prefer the low church practices the same way one wouldn't enjoy unseasoned chicken, you still enjoy it, it's still chicken, but just not your flavor, but with Evangelicals they genuinely seem uncomfortable with High church practices and offended at times like. Both on here and elsewhere writing long paragraphs on how Sola scripture is supreme and that it's the only way and that if you want do High church practices " Its your own personal choice"
I never see High church or Anglo-Catholic go on rants arguing that they are right and the tradition is extremely valid in theology unless you count Apostolic Succession but that's a value held by the entire Episcopal church as whole so that's different.
Like what about church practices such as high altars, incense, church bells, imagery and intercession of saints makes Christianity seem so scary to people?
I've noticed a few things post election:
Evangelicals aren't posting constantly about how we should all "pray for the President" anymore.
Also, they have suddenly stopped claiming that "leaders are appointed by God and deserve our respect."
Funny how God only appoints and demands respect for Republicans.
Funny how they only scream about praying for the President when it is a Republican.
Also worth mentioning, none of the stay at home, Evangelical moms are posting incessantly about #savethechildren anymore.
Guess it wasn't about saving the children after all --- it was just about virtue signaling before an election.
Yesterday, Sierra Schultzzie issued an apology 3 days after posting a video promoting Krave beauty. Original post here.
However, while waiting for her response, I began to wonder what Sierra's own church life looked at in terms of her "allyship" with the LGBTQ+ community. And it was discovered that Sierra attends, or at least attended until recently, a church called North Coast Church. This church is part of the EFCA denomination, or Evangelical Free Church of America.
This is why that's a problem:
- EFCA defines themselves as "welcoming but not affirming." They do not condone gay marriage, and they will not credential anyone who is gay or who does not believe that homosexuality is a sin, regardless if they remain celibate.
- Their full stance on various issues, including the LGBTQ+ community (they also do not allow women in leadership)
- Their statement on "homosexual belief and conduct"
- Their statement on same-sex marriage
- While North Coast Church doesn't explicitly have their LGBTQ+ stance online, their pastor preached on the subject in 2018, and his stance against gay marriage and being LGBTQ+ is quite clear (he believes it is a sin).
- There are numerous accounts of homophobia, conversion, misogyny, bullying, racism, and more by North Coast Church that were brought to light in July and August 2020.
Why do I think this is Sierra's church?
- She followed them on Instagram as recently as yesterday afternoon. She unfollowed them after comments on the Reddit post yesterday started mentioning her potential affiliation with that church.
- Possibly coincidentally, or possibly in an effort to cover her tracks, she very recently (between yesterday afternoon and today) started following a very progressive Episcopalian church on IG.
- Her brother, who has been on her channel, also follows them, as well as adjacent accounts related to th
To say that these people want to make 'A Handmaids Tale' a reality is no longer hyperbole. With megachurch pastors and televangelists now more and more openly calling for Christians to use their "second Amendment rights" to take America back for God, people still want to make excuses for this brand of fundamentalist Christianity or downplay the threat we are facing.
I grew up in an extremely anti-gay IFB church where the pastor would literally preach, and often at that, that a civil war would happen if same-sex marriage was ever legalized. He said Christians wouldn't stand for it and would rise up to restore God's order in society. With that in mind, nothing that has happened over the past five years has surprised me. What does surprise me is that so many people want to act like everything is fine and that this isn't a national emergency. They want to take comfort in changing demographics and want to have faith that the system will prevail just by chugging along as it always has. Unfortunately, these are NOT normal times and these Christian terrorists are actively dismantling the system that keeps them in check from within. We are one Reichstag fire away from the next Nazi (or Stalin) Regime and this time, it will happen in the USA. These Christians want total domination over society and to force everyone to submit to their worldview. Anything less than that, in their eyes, is "persecution."
If "not all Christians" is really a thing, when are we going to start seeing "mainstream" Christianity, if it exists, strongly and forcefully denouncing this Christian nationalism that seeks to dismantle over two centuries of sacrifices by American patriots? All I see is them making excuses for the evangelicals/Republicans and trying to make the case that they really aren't that bad or that it's just a few bad apples. Growing up in a church where talk of rounding up gays and sending them to gas chambers was casual conversation in the fellowship hall, I think it's more than just a few bad apples.
America better start taking this seriously before there are tanks rolling in the streets with giant crosses on them enforcing Biblical law.
I suffered from hardcore rapture anxiety back then and sometimes I still get anxious about it.
Rapture talk was shoved down my throat on a regular basis back then, so it was impossible for me not to internalize it.
Can anyone provide me some comfort?
I’ve been going to my church now since I was 7 years old. I’m in my early 20s now and recently landed a job as a video editor for them. I’ve volunteered at the church since I was about 15 years old. I never saw a real issue with the church for a long time. The people were always nice. I felt like family there. More family at the church than in my own family weirdly enough.
But no matter how nice they are my convictions, who I am, my ethics, my values, and my understanding of God and my faith have changed a lot since then. I’ve been battling with my faith and my faith in this particular institution for a couple years now. I’ve learned about the prosperity gospel and how it’s predatory and a fundamental misreading of the word. I’ve seen the psychological effect it has had on members of my family. And how not even just the health and wealth part but even the other parts that are more heavy handed in terms of the control over the family the more cultish aspects have in turn really done a lot to tear my family apart over the last couple years has really come into perspective for me.
I took this job video editing mostly because I have some student loans I want to pay off and needed a job but as time has gone on I have found myself more depressed than I ever have been. I’ve found myself spending almost no time in the word and praying. I feel like a shell of my former self. I’m drained. I’m depressed. Because everyday I go into work I’m working against myself and my convictions.
Most recently we had a staff prayer and a woman who I admire greatly was praying and prayed that people be delivered from the spirit of homosexuality. Now I believe in science and the Bible. I don’t believe the two are irreconcilable because of how the Bible was written and in the case of the issue of homosexuality the context of what the Bible was really referring to to my understanding has nothing to do with naturally occurring homosexual wiring. But it stung. Big time. But whatever it’s a room of a bunch of conservatives what else can I expect. And then it got like worse. A woman was brought in who is a neurologist or neuropsychologist. And she was a revered Christian in that field and basically came to the church and said mental illness doesn’t exist it’s only you feeling these things because your brain is a mess and you need to get my app and books to find out how to rewire your brain so that way you can treat it properly. And she was not really fond too much of therapy as a real
... keep reading on reddit ➡“Ireland is no longer a Catholic country. We are now a pluralist country with Catholic laws that we are gradually dismantling. The most important next step is removing the anachronistic control that the Catholic Church has over the education of our children*,”* it said in a statement.
I’m exvangelical (the label feels weird but whatever) and still Christian. I looked for other churches in my area but didn’t find any that really align well with where I’m at right now, so I’ve chosen to stay put. I have some good nontoxic friendships there that make it worthwhile to stay. I’d say my basic beliefs about God are pretty orthodox but evangelical culture makes me want to vomit a bit. For context, the church’s favorite media sources are TGC, Desiring God, and similar outlets that get under my skin.
I don’t always know how to handle moments where I’m confronted with things I outright disagree with. I find myself getting angry or clamming up. I don’t want to stay completely silent but also don’t want to stir the pot too much and make myself a target. I’ve already become the weird liberal one in my small group by saying that I think Catholic and Orthodox traditions are Christian & valid, that I think evolution is the best explanation we have right now for how God created the earth, and that there are compelling arguments for claiming Paul’s views on gender are culturally influenced. What really makes me angry is hearing people doubt that someone is “really a Christian” because they don’t believe exactly the same thing. I’ve settled for just saying that it’s not our job to determine who is saved.
Has anyone else chosen to stick around at an evangelical church? How do you handle these sticky situations?
Also, I feel a certain obligation to be intellectually honest about what I believe in a setting that is overly dogmatic and authoritarian, if only to show anyone else that is feeling suppressed that they are allowed to dissent. Is that a misplaced notion?
Sorry for the long post. I guess I just need to let out these thoughts somewhere.
LMAO
So, I have attended Episcopal churches before in the US, and currently attend an Anglican Church since I live in Korea. However, I’m not confirmed or officially a member. I intend to go through that process when I return to the US early in the year. Also, I am engaged, and plan to marry in the Episcopal Church as well. The issue is that I have very conservative evangelical parents. They are apart of a pretty radical evangelical church with some Pentecostal influence. They’re quite prone to disparage other faiths. Also, my mother has severe OCD that manifests as religious obsession and anger directed at family members. They have become more extreme and angry over the last 2 years, getting into conspiracy theories and this has sort of motivated their religious life as well. Adding to this, my dad has recently taken over as pastor of an extremely conservative church. I’ve watched some of his sermons online, and his preaching has become much more aggressive and politically themed than in the past. Converting to a denomination like this and having a marriage there will most likely anger them quite a lot. Especially since my dad is now a pastor and I guess they expect me to attend his church. I’m not very close with them, so I’m not seeking their approval. However, I can see this enraging them and causing lots of issues. Once upon a time, they would’ve just been glad I was in church. But with how political their faith is, that won’t be the case now. I’m just wondering if anyone else has had similar issues with family, and how you dealt with family backlash or resentment.
I have recently come under strong conviction for my life of rebellion and want to plant myself in a true church. I was raised in a Baptist church and am very comfortable with smaller assemblies but this church near me is rather large and states it’s denomination is Evangelical Free. Is anyone a member of an Evangelical Free Church of America or know anything about this denomination? Would you recommend it to me?
