Anglo Saxon Language Puns

Maybe this question may be more for r/askhistorians. If so please feel free to remove.

So seems like Old Saxon, which was the language spoken by the continental saxons, while closely related was not an anglo-frisian language and was the ancestor of modern low german, while it was significantly different from Old English. If so, considering Britain was also settled by the Saxons, then from where does Old English comes? Was it the language spoken by angles and jutes and not saxons, so it got absorbed by the Saxons? Or the Saxons spoke multiple languages? If the first is true, then are there any traces of Old Saxon in England, like some roots or toponyms? Or viceversa, traces of Old English in continental Europe?

Or is the extent to which the Anglo-Normans maintained their status as a people apart exaggerated?

This question comes after playing a lot of assassins creed Valhalla. Most of the A-S in the game are Christian, but some still talk about Woden and Valhol. I would assume these are the same as Odin and Valhalla, but sometimes they drop god names I do not recognize. (Can’t remember which ones atm, sorry). I’m not sure of they’re different Celtic dieties or an A-S god not present in the Norse pantheon.

Edit: just remember a few more god names. Tie and Funor. I’m guessing Tiw=Tyr, and Funor=Thor? Or maybe Fenrir?

Not sure if r/AskHistorians would be a better place to ask but I'll give it a shot!

It only occurred to me recently that there are quite a few popular Spanish and Italian male names that are of Anglo-Saxon origin. Alfred (Alfredo), Edward (Eduardo), Oswald (Oswaldo), Osbert (Osberto) and Edmund (Edmundo) to name a few.

I'm interested to know why these names ended up becoming popular, considering that Anglo-Saxon names had already fallen out of favour in England by the early 12th century and, aside from perhaps Edward, still remain largely unused in England today.

I keep seeing these posts everywhere about how English is super hard and has weird grammar and spelling and whatever and I just want to say that no, English is not hard. I’m not saying it’s necessarily easy, but... every language has weird spelling. Every language has some areas with convoluted rules, and every language has some weird grammar logic. And as far as grammar goes, I’d actually say English is pretty damn easy and convenient (only one specific article and the incredibly under appreciated gender neutral personal pronoun “they”). As for learning it: where I’m from it’s pretty damn common for people to just learn English through sheer exposure on the internet without ever consciously putting in any effort towards learning it. English is the probably the easiest language in the world to learn because it happens subconsciously because it’s FECKING EVERYWHERE.

Ok I think that’s all, rant over, have a good night :)

I've always found it funny how the French and English played ball with the expression. I was curious if other Europeans had an equivalent in their native tongue about their neighbours or historic rivals.

As every schoolkid knows, the Anglo-Saxons who would colonise much of Britain came from a variety of different tribal backgrounds on the continent- the Angles, Saxons and Jutes being the three everyone remembers. I presume these groups each came from their own homelands in northern Europe.

When the settlers arrived in Britain, did they already speak the same language, which they shared on the continent? Or did they speak separate (I guess closely related) languages, which would merge and form together into Old English only after they arrived? If they were separate languages, do we have any sense of when they might have separated, when their proto-language might have existed, what their relationship with the rest of the Germanic languages might have been, etc.? (I know that Frisian is also closely related- how does that fit into the mix too?)

And as a related question, if these groups did arrive with different languages, to what extent did these languages influence the various dialects of Old English spoken in different regions? Are there any traces of these differing languages to be found in extant (or recent) dialects of Modern English or Scots?

The ordinary people would not likely have come into contact with those from outside their area, unless in a market of some sort. But the upper nobility/kings, etc would have had some contact, for example the Northumbrian kings in alliances with the Gaels/Picts or the Welsh with the Mercians. How would they communicate? Was it simply a matter of being bi-or tri-lingual? Or seeing that many of the upper classes, if they were educated, would have been through the monasteries, so would they use Latin as a common language? Even the Welsh/Irish had different forms of Gaelic, as I understand, but could they understand each other when they spoke to each other?

Also, please refrain from giving away spoilers. I'm still in the third season.

Thank you!

I just spent 8 minutes trying to spell "analogies". Like bro how hard can it be to spell analogies? Turns out English is fekin stupid, it shouldn't be that hard to spell analogies but here we are I guess, honestly this language is dumb. Analogies is "a-nal-oh-gees" not "an-oh-low-gees" like holy crap is it that hard for language to be coherent? I've spoken English my entire life and every day I get a "wtf?" Moment. Honesty though back to the point, how hard can it be for my brain to process "analogies"? I'm still reading that as "an-a-lowgs" like holy shit I can't even right now

Is it as simple as there just being more settlers in Angland that they didn't need to settle with Britons?

There have been loads of attempts to create English-derived conlangs which do not have the Romance influence which the English language does. For example, this Anglish wiki.

I'd like to know, has anyone tried to do the opposite of this? In other words, create a conlang based on the English language, but which has no words derived from Anglo-Saxon/ the proto-West-Germanic language.

In other words, all of the vocabulary in this language would originate from Norman, French, Norse, Latin, Greek, the Celtic languages, etc.

I think such a language would be very interesting, and given the popularity of Anglish-type languages you'd have thought that someone would have tried to create the opposite. I haven't come across one yet though– does anyone know whether such a conlang exists or whether I'll have to try to create it myself?

It may have been an Australian book but it was set in England, may have been a young adult novel, and was probably published in the late '80s. It was set in some kind of school in the English countryside.

I'm short on details beyond that. Thanks.

I've heard here and there that Tolkien always hated that William the Bastard bested King Harold at the Battle of Hastings in 1066, because he felt that it prevented a full flourishing of Anglo-Saxon culture and allowed French to "pollute" the language (for more detail on that opinion, scroll to the last section of this post). I have two primary questions:

Q1) To what extent was Tolkien correct that the Norman Conquest prevented a full flourishing of Anglo-Saxon culture by introducing French nobility, ideas, and language to the British Isles?

I always thought it odd that Tolkien, a linguist and scholar, would be so distressed that the Normans upset the Anglo-Saxon applecart, so to speak, when the Angles, Saxons, and other Germanic tribes upset the “native” British applecart. This leads to my second question:

Q2) With respect to the breadth, depth, timeline, and methods of influence: were the arrivals of the Angles/Saxons/other Germanic tribes substantively different than the arrival of the Normans? If so, how? Is Tolkien unfairly bemoaning the French/Norman influence while dismissing the Germanic influence? Perhaps the English penchant for Francophobia is rearing its ugly head here?

I’ve found the following threads that contain similar information, and these are the closest answers I could find, but none of them quite hit the mark I’m aiming at (a comparison between Norman and Anglo-Saxon “disruption”):

“I know nothing about genetics. I'm not sure what you mean by "Brittonic," which usually refers to a Celtic language group. The Anglo-Saxons crushed the Celtic inhabitants of England and very few traces of their culture influenced that of the ruthless Angles, Saxons, and Jutes who overran them. The early Germanic invaders seemed to have used some the leftovers of Roman organization, that the Celts were still using, as early forms of organization for themselves, but beyond there there was very little influence. The Celts were pushed to the far corners of the country and/or enslaved (yes, the Anglo-Saxons, and everybody else at the time, had slaves). There was no feeling of kinship with the Normans, who were perhaps just as cruel to the Anglo-Saxons as they were to the Celtic tribes”.

[“by the eleventh century all the names recorded in the D

Are the Anglo saxons of 500-1066 part of the continuum of the English culture, or are they a culture uniquely themselves?

My sense is “ England” as we know it couldn’t really have existed without the Norman invasion.

If Hastings had gone differently England and the English language might more closely resemble the countries/ languages of Denmark or perhaps Holland.

England, as it exists today doesn’t really strike me as a “ Germanic” nation in the sense that Scandinavia, Germany or Holland are. It’s more similar to France IMO. Holland, maybe.

I know little about Anglo Saxon but am fascinated by the words. Ocean is “ whale road”, sun is “ sky candle.” Almost reminds me of Native American words/ idioms.

Thoughts?